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gunsnewing
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12/2/2006  9:37 AM
We're going 6-0
AUTOADVERT
nyk4ever
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12/2/2006  10:34 AM
Posted by holfresh:


Contrary to what most you guys think here a Championship team is not built overnight and it's not like instant oatmeal....Now this years version of the Knicks seems to be competitive in every game, unlike last year's version with the same personnel if I may...No, they haven't figured out how to finish yet, but at least they are showing signs of playing as a team....Detroit played 4 years together before adding Weed and vying for a Championship....This can actually be considered the first full year this team is playing together after the stunt Larry Clown pull last year...I see growth and thats important...It's funny that most of the haters here are always crying rebuilding...Well here you are gentlemen, the core of this group is under 26 years old, Isiah has used the draft to bring in some good ball players but you're still moaning...Go figure...Well I'll be here on my couch sipping koolaid watching Curry grow into a man...Watching DLee, Frye, and Q transform this mess...I'm just sorry it can't be done instantly to make you blokes happy...





[Edited by - holfresh on 12-02-2006 09:35 AM]

I've been in support of a FULL rebuilding movement since the day Antonio McDyess showed everyone that he wasn't going to be the same player he once was.

I would be and still am in support of a full-blown rebuild in which the team gets a few top3 draft picks and gains their talent that way. I still don't think rebuilding like the way Isiah has chosen to go about it is going to work because the Knicks still don't have that franchise player that you need to have to win consistently in this league. The only way you get that guy is by drafting him in the top3 picks of the draft. Curry isn't that player either, because although he scores, he doesn't do nearly enough else to warrant him as a franchise player.

Basically Isiah has done some more patchwork and drafted some nice guys like Lee, Nate and Frye but the team has been in the gutter for 3 years under Isiah and we still don't have that franchise caliber player, even though we've been nowhere close to the playoffs in the last 2 years and were lucky enough to get into the playoffs in 2004 and take a wooping from the Nets and no lotto pick to show for it. This team needs to go about rebuilding the right way before they get anywhere close to being a top playoff team, let alone a championship caliber team.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
SugarRayRichardson
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12/2/2006  11:04 AM
They are competing this year. Last season they did not care
I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
holfresh
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12/2/2006  11:05 AM
You choose to blame Isiah but it's Dolan's mandate not to rebuild in this city...Knick fans won't stand for it, and to a point it's true...To think that Isiah could take Layden's salary mess, Dolan's mandate and turn it around the way you want it is a pipedream, that is, if you really want to be honest and fair...Isiah hasn't made all the best moves but who does??...To be fair he has done his best with what limited resources he has had...Now as a coach, he is changing the very culture you preached so much about all last year...He has minimized Marbs influence and promoted team play and you think he can get your support...NO WAY....He has done more in 4 weeks than Larry has done in a full season and for about 25 million less, but he's the bad guy...Go figure "Knick Fan"...



[Edited by - holfresh on 12-02-2006 11:10 AM]
nyk4ever
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12/2/2006  11:29 AM
Posted by holfresh:

You choose to blame Isiah but it's Dolan's mandate not to rebuild in this city...Knick fans won't stand for it, and to a point it's true...To think that Isiah could take Layden's salary mess, Dolan's mandate and turn it around the way you want it is a pipedream, that is, if you really want to be honest and fair...Isiah hasn't made all the best moves but who does??...To be fair he has done his best with what limited resources he has had...Now as a coach, he is changing the very culture you preached so much about all last year...He has minimized Marbs influence and promoted team play and you think he can get your support...NO WAY....He has done more in 4 weeks than Larry has done in a full season and for about 25 million less, but he's the bad guy...Go figure "Knick Fan"...



[Edited by - holfresh on 12-02-2006 11:10 AM]

I don't get why you are comparing what he's doing to Larry Brown. Larry Browns team won 23 games last year. ANYTHING will look good compared to last year. Making improvements on last years record isn't something thats hard to do because of what went on. If your only concerned about building a team that will do better than last years 23 wins and compete for the 8th seed in the playoffs for the next 5-6 years, then this Knick team is right up your alley.

I on the other hand am not interested in only competing for the 8th seed in the playoffs, I'm interested in this team building a true contender and this Knicks team does NOT fit the bill. The lack of a franchise player is going to kill this team and the more games that Isiah wins with this group, which has an extremely limited chance to move forward past the 8th seed of the playoffs is beyond stupid. This teams needs to cut bait and get that franchise player because thats the ONLY way this team is going to be able to compete in the next 10 years.

There are nice components on this team like Lee, Frye, Q but getting players like that HAS to come after getting your franchise player because those players are great complimentary players and they will help you win ballgames but not good enough to get out of the lottery. Basically having these players moves the Knicks away from that #1 pick and further down line, killing this teams chance of getting a franchise player.

I love the New York Knicks and I want this team to win a championship. I don't care how you color me, you can color me anyway you want with your petty little jabs like questioning how much of a fan I am, I believe I'm right and your little potshots won't change my rooting or my ideas on what this needs to do to become a championship team.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 12-02-2006 11:31 AM]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
BRIGGS
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12/2/2006  11:31 AM
This is NOT a rebuilding team

Here is the evidence

C Eddy Curry 6 th year NBA
F David Lee 4 year college player 2nd year nBA
F Q-rich 7th Nba year
G Francis 8th Nba year
G Marbury 10th NBA year
G Jamal Crawford 7th NBA year
F Frye 4 year college player 2nd year NBA
F malik Rose 11 th year NBA
G Nate Robinson 3 year college player 2nd year player
F Jared Jefferies 5th year NBA
C Jerome James 7 years NBA
Balkman rookie with 3 college years.

thisis a team with many guys in their pure prime. Prime as in 23-30 with a collective experience as a whole
RIP Crushalot😞
holfresh
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12/2/2006  11:38 AM

Ok aside from the potshots...Detroit didn't have a franchise player, they competed and won...The Nets got there without a true franchise player...It doesn't happen overnight..You have to build towards..It's very true we don't have that piece at the moment but we can build the confidence and game of the young players we have and possibly make a big signing in 2009...My point is that Zeke is not as bad as he is portrayed in this forum...
SugarRayRichardson
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12/2/2006  11:39 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

This is NOT a rebuilding team

Here is the evidence

C Eddy Curry 6 th year NBA
F David Lee 4 year college player 2nd year nBA
F Q-rich 7th Nba year
G Francis 8th Nba year
G Marbury 10th NBA year
G Jamal Crawford 7th NBA year
F Frye 4 year college player 2nd year NBA
F malik Rose 11 th year NBA
G Nate Robinson 3 year college player 2nd year player
F Jared Jefferies 5th year NBA
C Jerome James 7 years NBA
Balkman rookie with 3 college years.

thisis a team with many guys in their pure prime. Prime as in 23-30 with a collective experience as a whole


LOL are you serious?

C Eddy Curry 23 years old
F David Lee 23 years old
F Q-rich 26 years old
G Jamal Crawford 26 years old
F Frye 4 year 23 years old
G Nate Robinson 22 years old
F Jared Jefferies 25 years old
F Balkman rookie 22 years old
G Mardy Collins 22 years old
I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
Allanfan20
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12/2/2006  11:42 AM
To be fair, we ARE a fairly young team with a lot of nice pieces. Unfortunately, Isiah seems to be completely ignoring our biggest problems:

-No inside presence on defense
-Marbury and Francis and Crawford and Nate being on the same team. 2 of them need to go, preferably Marbury and Francis. I don't mind trading Crawford either.
-No perimeter defenders at the 1 and 2 besides the potential of Nate and Mardy. Big whop.
-No ball distributers who can get the ball moving.
-No consistent go to player. Eddy, Jamal, Steph, Francis and Frye are not go to scorers.

These are the reasons we ARE NOT a good team. We can beat the bad teams will the cows come home and we still wont be a good team, until we start attending to those nescessities. Like I said, I just don't know why Isiah keeps ignoring those issues.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
nixluva
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12/2/2006  11:48 AM
Isiah COULDN'T REBUILD! When are you guys gonna get that thru your head? Dolan didn't want that. We still have H2O with years left on his contract and a chance that he'd come back. We had KT as well. So he figured it was best to try and Retool around them. Once it became clear to Isiah that we weren't gonna see H2O make it all the way back, he quickly convinced Dolan that they needed to go in a different direction and since then he's acquired a lot of good young players. I really don't understand the thinking of some of you guys. What team that has rebuilt thru the draft from scratch has won the NBA title in the last 10 years? Was it Boston or Chicago? In truth most teams have had little success in getting to the big show in that way. Unless you can trade for a Shaq or Rasheed there really aren't any examples of teams that have done it by totally rebuilding thru the draft. The Spurs tanked a season and got Duncan and that ain't happening every year.

So Isiah in his own way has been trying to add GOOD young players. Right now we have Curry, Frye, Lee, Jared, Nate, Balkman, Q, Jamal and Collins as our younger core. That's not a bad group at all. Isiah is developing them and turning them into a TEAM. We're seeing growth that we never saw last year with these players and that's a good thing. Now they have to find a way to crank it up at home. If they do, this team is gonna have a good season. We've got 11 home games this month and they should be able to develop a comfort level at home with so many together.

[Edited by - nixluva on 12-02-2006 04:50 AM]
holfresh
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12/2/2006  11:55 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

This is NOT a rebuilding team

Here is the evidence

C Eddy Curry 6 th year NBA
F David Lee 4 year college player 2nd year nBA
F Q-rich 7th Nba year
G Francis 8th Nba year
G Marbury 10th NBA year
G Jamal Crawford 7th NBA year
F Frye 4 year college player 2nd year NBA
F malik Rose 11 th year NBA
G Nate Robinson 3 year college player 2nd year player
F Jared Jefferies 5th year NBA
C Jerome James 7 years NBA
Balkman rookie with 3 college years.

thisis a team with many guys in their pure prime. Prime as in 23-30 with a collective experience as a whole

This roster was not constructed to win now...Maybe when Marbs was first traded for, but certainly not now...Isiah talks about it's Eddy's team...He's 23 years old...Frye, Lee and Nate are under 23
Jamal and Q are under 26...This is the new core...Marbs has been marginalized...Francis is not a factor..Both would be traded if a good offer comes along...How is that not rebuilding...
Silverfuel
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12/2/2006  11:56 AM
Posted by Ira:

We're not good enough to go 5-1. These are teams at our level. The Wizards are better. We'll do well to go 4-2.
Agreed! Its funny how everyone that hates this team and Isiah as the coach thinks this team should go 5-1 or better! You guys are just setting yourselves up to be disappointed. I'll definitely take 4-2 over the next 6 games.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
holfresh
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12/2/2006  12:00 PM
Posted by nixluva:

Isiah COULDN'T REBUILD! When are you guys gonna get that thru your head? Dolan didn't want that. We still have H2O with years left on his contract and a chance that he'd come back. We had KT as well. So he figured it was best to try and Retool around them. Once it became clear to Isiah that we weren't gonna see H2O make it all the way back, he quickly convinced Dolan that they needed to go in a different direction and since then he's acquired a lot of good young players. I really don't understand the thinking of some of you guys. What team that has rebuilt thru the draft from scratch has won the NBA title in the last 10 years? Was it Boston or Chicago? In truth most teams have had little success in getting to the big show in that way. Unless you can trade for a Shaq or Rasheed there really aren't any examples of teams that have done it by totally rebuilding thru the draft. The Spurs tanked a season and got Duncan and that ain't happening every year.

So Isiah in his own way has been trying to add GOOD young players. Right now we have Curry, Frye, Lee, Jared, Nate, Balkman, Q, Jamal and Collins as our younger core. That's not a bad group at all. Isiah is developing them and turning them into a TEAM. We're seeing growth that we never saw last year with these players and that's a good thing. Now they have to find a way to crank it up at home. If they do, this team is gonna have a good season. We've got 11 home games this month and they should be able to develop a comfort level at home with so many together.

[Edited by - nixluva on 12-02-2006 04:50 AM]

AMEN !!!
Anji
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12/2/2006  12:05 PM
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:
Posted by BRIGGS:

This is NOT a rebuilding team

Here is the evidence

C Eddy Curry 6 th year NBA
F David Lee 4 year college player 2nd year nBA
F Q-rich 7th Nba year
G Francis 8th Nba year
G Marbury 10th NBA year
G Jamal Crawford 7th NBA year
F Frye 4 year college player 2nd year NBA
F malik Rose 11 th year NBA
G Nate Robinson 3 year college player 2nd year player
F Jared Jefferies 5th year NBA
C Jerome James 7 years NBA
Balkman rookie with 3 college years.

thisis a team with many guys in their pure prime. Prime as in 23-30 with a collective experience as a whole


LOL are you serious?

C Eddy Curry 23 years old
F David Lee 23 years old
F Q-rich 26 years old
G Jamal Crawford 26 years old
F Frye 4 year 23 years old
G Nate Robinson 22 years old
F Jared Jefferies 25 years old
F Balkman rookie 22 years old
G Mardy Collins 22 years old
Yeah, I always thought a players prime was about 28-33 or 27-32. Maybe I'm wrong....
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
Silverfuel
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12/2/2006  12:07 PM
you are right Anji. The prime is always 28 - 33. Thats when they produce their best stats. Unless the players name is Duncan, Garnett, Kobe, Amare or Lebron you aren't seeing much dominance out of them before they reach 28.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
BRIGGS
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12/2/2006  12:08 PM
Posted by holfresh:

[quote]Posted by BRIGGS:

This is NOT a rebuilding team

Here is the evidence

C Eddy Curry 6 th year NBA
F David Lee 4 year college player 2nd year nBA
F Q-rich 7th Nba year
G Francis 8th Nba year
G Marbury 10th NBA year
G Jamal Crawford 7th NBA year
F Frye 4 year college player 2nd year NBA
F malik Rose 11 th year NBA
G Nate Robinson 3 year college player 2nd year player
F Jared Jefferies 5th year NBA
C Jerome James 7 years NBA
Balkman rookie with 3 college years.

thisis a team with many guys in their pure prime. Prime as in 23-30 with a collective experience as a whole

This roster was not constructed to win now...Maybe when Marbs was first traded for, but certainly not now...Isiah talks about it's Eddy's team...He's 23 years old...Frye, Lee and Nate are under 23
Jamal and Q are under 26...This is the new core...Marbs has been marginalized...Francis is not a factor..Both would be traded if a good offer comes along...How is that not rebuilding...


[/so when are they constructed to win--when their 40?

You cant delete a player who is here
Francis and Marbury are the starting backcourt until they are not.
Crawford and Q will be 27 years old during the season with 7 years experience
Curry is 24 next week with 6 years
youre just making excuses---what you are saying is we have no backcourt and that that will then be used as an excuse
If we made a oouple of moves we can play to win now.
How old was Tim Duncan when he started winning championships? Magic Johnson? these guys were 21 age smage you got it or you dont!
RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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12/2/2006  12:11 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:

you are right Anji. The prime is always 28 - 33. Thats when they produce their best stats. Unless the players name is Duncan, Garnett, Kobe, Amare or Lebron you aren't seeing much dominance out of them before they reach 28.

what? are you on ludes????? i dont want to start naming players under 28 to make you sound real foolish but let me say it dominates the nba
RIP Crushalot😞
nyk4ever
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12/2/2006  12:12 PM
Posted by nixluva:

Isiah COULDN'T REBUILD! When are you guys gonna get that thru your head? Dolan didn't want that. We still have H2O with years left on his contract and a chance that he'd come back. We had KT as well. So he figured it was best to try and Retool around them. Once it became clear to Isiah that we weren't gonna see H2O make it all the way back, he quickly convinced Dolan that they needed to go in a different direction and since then he's acquired a lot of good young players. I really don't understand the thinking of some of you guys. What team that has rebuilt thru the draft from scratch has won the NBA title in the last 10 years? Was it Boston or Chicago? In truth most teams have had little success in getting to the big show in that way. Unless you can trade for a Shaq or Rasheed there really aren't any examples of teams that have done it by totally rebuilding thru the draft. The Spurs tanked a season and got Duncan and that ain't happening every year.

So Isiah in his own way has been trying to add GOOD young players. Right now we have Curry, Frye, Lee, Jared, Nate, Balkman, Q, Jamal and Collins as our younger core. That's not a bad group at all. Isiah is developing them and turning them into a TEAM. We're seeing growth that we never saw last year with these players and that's a good thing. Now they have to find a way to crank it up at home. If they do, this team is gonna have a good season. We've got 11 home games this month and they should be able to develop a comfort level at home with so many together.

[Edited by - nixluva on 12-02-2006 04:50 AM]

I think every person on this forum knows Dolan wouldn't let him rebuild. Just because Dolan wouldn't let Isiah rebuild, Isiah should stay here for as long as he likes and quit when he deems it's time to quit? Isiah's way didn't work and it's time to bring in someone else to give it a shot.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
nyk4ever
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12/2/2006  12:13 PM
Posted by holfresh:


Ok aside from the potshots...Detroit didn't have a franchise player, they competed and won...The Nets got there without a true franchise player...It doesn't happen overnight..You have to build towards..It's very true we don't have that piece at the moment but we can build the confidence and game of the young players we have and possibly make a big signing in 2009...My point is that Zeke is not as bad as he is portrayed in this forum...

Jason Kidd isn't a franchise player?

Detroit was and is a once in a lifetime team.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Silverfuel
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12/2/2006  12:21 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Silverfuel:

you are right Anji. The prime is always 28 - 33. Thats when they produce their best stats. Unless the players name is Duncan, Garnett, Kobe, Amare or Lebron you aren't seeing much dominance out of them before they reach 28.
what? are you on ludes????? i dont want to start naming players under 28 to make you sound real foolish but let me say it dominates the nba
Oh please! You name players in their early years, you'll be naming superstar. Even a retard knows that most players come into their prime around 28!
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
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