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Has Isiah the coach done anything positive?
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joec32033
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11/29/2006  5:31 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

He's given the young guys many more minutes than Brown did. That's the only positive I can think of. And he still (at least until yesterday) didn't give them enough min. I think about half the players on the team (through his own fault) will make most coaches look bad.

Robinson last year-21:23.
Robinson this year-21:30.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3947

Frye last year-24:11.
Frye this year-22:48.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3934

Lee last year-16:48.
Lee this year-25:41.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3956

Qyntel Woods last year-20.7 mpg.http://www.nba.com/playerfile/qyntel_woods/career_stats.html
Renaldo Balkman this year-11.3 mpg.http://www.nba.com/playerfile/renaldo_balkman/index.html
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Bonn1997
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11/29/2006  5:39 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by Bonn1997:

He's given the young guys many more minutes than Brown did. That's the only positive I can think of. And he still (at least until yesterday) didn't give them enough min. I think about half the players on the team (through his own fault) will make most coaches look bad.

Robinson last year-21:23.
Robinson this year-21:30.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3947

Frye last year-24:11.
Frye this year-22:48.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3934

Lee last year-16:48.
Lee this year-25:41.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3956

Qyntel Woods last year-20.7 mpg.http://www.nba.com/playerfile/qyntel_woods/career_stats.html
Renaldo Balkman this year-11.3 mpg.http://www.nba.com/playerfile/renaldo_balkman/index.html
That's because mpg is not meaningful if a player gets a ton of DNP-CDs. It doesn't take DNP-CDs into account and doesn't tell the full story. Percentage of team minutes in which the player played does:

Lee
05-06: 28%
06-07: 51%

How on earth can anyone justify having Lee sit out 72% of the minutes???

Robinson
05-06: 39%
06-07: 45%

A small increase this year. He should be getting more min.

Frye
05-06: 39%
06-07: 47%

A small increase this year, but Frye has played worse than last year and hasn't earned more min. The #s both seasons are hard to interpret because Frye's had injuries anyway. Lee and Robinson have been healthy though.



[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 11-29-2006 5:40 PM]
martin
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11/29/2006  5:45 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:


That's because mpg is not meaningful if a player gets a ton of DNP-CDs. It doesn't take DNP-CDs into account and doesn't tell the full story. Percentage of team minutes in which the player played does:

Lee
05-06: 28%
06-07: 51%

How on earth can anyone justify having Lee sit out 72% of the minutes???

Bonn, I have pointed this out to you a million freakin' times. Lee couldn't get minutes at the PF position cause of AD, Frye, Malik, MoT. At the SF: Matt Barnes, Woods, Jalen, Q. This year more than half of those guys are gone so the minutes are more plentiful.

Get that through your head and stop making the same snit freakin arguement.

EDIT: I forgot Ariza and Butler
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joec32033
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11/29/2006  5:46 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by Bonn1997:

He's given the young guys many more minutes than Brown did. That's the only positive I can think of. And he still (at least until yesterday) didn't give them enough min. I think about half the players on the team (through his own fault) will make most coaches look bad.

Robinson last year-21:23.
Robinson this year-21:30.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3947

Frye last year-24:11.
Frye this year-22:48.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3934

Lee last year-16:48.
Lee this year-25:41.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3956

Qyntel Woods last year-20.7 mpg.http://www.nba.com/playerfile/qyntel_woods/career_stats.html
Renaldo Balkman this year-11.3 mpg.http://www.nba.com/playerfile/renaldo_balkman/index.html
That's because mpg is not meaningful if a player gets a ton of DNP-CDs. It doesn't take DNP-CDs into account and doesn't tell the full story. Percentage of team minutes in which the player played does:

Lee
05-06: 28%
06-07: 51%

How on earth can anyone justify having Lee sit out 72% of the minutes???

Robinson
05-06: 39%
06-07: 45%

A small increase this year. He should be getting more min.

Frye
05-06: 39%
06-07: 47%

A small increase this year, but Frye has played worse than last year and hasn't earned more min. The #s both seasons are hard to interpret because Frye's had injuries anyway. Lee and Robinson have been healthy though.



[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 11-29-2006 5:40 PM]

Lee wasn't this good last year. That's how I justify not playing Lee the percentage you said.

Last year LB had Antonio Davis, Jalen, Mo, Woods. Jalen and Woods took some time from Nate. Mo and Davis took time from Frye. Jalen, Woods, Davis, Mo ALL took time from Lee also.

That is not even taking into consideration that Malik took time from Lee and Frye also-A Malik that is taking time from young players like Curry and Frye even today because of their still inconsistent play.
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Bonn1997
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11/29/2006  5:58 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Bonn1997:


That's because mpg is not meaningful if a player gets a ton of DNP-CDs. It doesn't take DNP-CDs into account and doesn't tell the full story. Percentage of team minutes in which the player played does:

Lee
05-06: 28%
06-07: 51%

How on earth can anyone justify having Lee sit out 72% of the minutes???

Bonn, I have pointed this out to you a million freakin' times. Lee couldn't get minutes at the PF position cause of AD, Frye, Malik, MoT. At the SF: Matt Barnes, Woods, Jalen, Q. This year more than half of those guys are gone so the minutes are more plentiful.

Get that through your head and stop making the same snit freakin arguement.

EDIT: I forgot Ariza and Butler
Well that name calling just because I disagree (I didn't even say anything rude to you) is the reason I left. My response is the same as last time: none of those players should have been taking time from Lee.
martin
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11/29/2006  6:04 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Bonn1997:


That's because mpg is not meaningful if a player gets a ton of DNP-CDs. It doesn't take DNP-CDs into account and doesn't tell the full story. Percentage of team minutes in which the player played does:

Lee
05-06: 28%
06-07: 51%

How on earth can anyone justify having Lee sit out 72% of the minutes???

Bonn, I have pointed this out to you a million freakin' times. Lee couldn't get minutes at the PF position cause of AD, Frye, Malik, MoT. At the SF: Matt Barnes, Woods, Jalen, Q. This year more than half of those guys are gone so the minutes are more plentiful.

Get that through your head and stop making the same snit freakin arguement.

EDIT: I forgot Ariza and Butler
Well that name calling just because I disagree (I didn't even say anything rude to you) is the reason I left. My response is the same as last time: none of those players should have been taking time from Lee.

no Bonn, the name calling is cause you haven't put one iota of thought into the opposite side of the argument and seem to not think it's relevant. Are you saying that it would have been AOK to not play/play less MoT, Ariza, AD, Butler, Q, Jalen, Woods, Barnes? That's not reasonable.

Lee had never played the PF/SF position like the way they do in the NBA: on the perimeter. He is comfortable is shallow water. Catch the last Bulls game? Look how Noccioni was doing good things when he started outside in.
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Bonn1997
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11/29/2006  6:07 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Bonn1997:


That's because mpg is not meaningful if a player gets a ton of DNP-CDs. It doesn't take DNP-CDs into account and doesn't tell the full story. Percentage of team minutes in which the player played does:

Lee
05-06: 28%
06-07: 51%

How on earth can anyone justify having Lee sit out 72% of the minutes???

Bonn, I have pointed this out to you a million freakin' times. Lee couldn't get minutes at the PF position cause of AD, Frye, Malik, MoT. At the SF: Matt Barnes, Woods, Jalen, Q. This year more than half of those guys are gone so the minutes are more plentiful.

Get that through your head and stop making the same snit freakin arguement.

EDIT: I forgot Ariza and Butler
Well that name calling just because I disagree (I didn't even say anything rude to you) is the reason I left. My response is the same as last time: none of those players should have been taking time from Lee.

no Bonn, the name calling is cause you haven't put one iota of thought into the opposite side of the argument and seem to not think it's relevant. Are you saying that it would have been AOK to not play/play less MoT, Ariza, AD, Butler, Q, Jalen, Woods, Barnes? That's not reasonable.
I think it's reasonable to play Lee more and some guys less but we've been through this. Even if I had put no thought into your side, there's no reason to be rude about it.
martin
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11/29/2006  6:09 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

I think it's reasonable to play Lee more and some guys less but we've been through this. Even if I had put no thought into your side, there's no reason to be rude about it.

Benching Marbury for the start of the second half is rude and embarrassing, but until he understands what the expectation of him are and can perform to those expectation, it will come. My expectations of you hold the same.

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joec32033
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11/29/2006  6:11 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Bonn1997:


That's because mpg is not meaningful if a player gets a ton of DNP-CDs. It doesn't take DNP-CDs into account and doesn't tell the full story. Percentage of team minutes in which the player played does:

Lee
05-06: 28%
06-07: 51%

How on earth can anyone justify having Lee sit out 72% of the minutes???

Bonn, I have pointed this out to you a million freakin' times. Lee couldn't get minutes at the PF position cause of AD, Frye, Malik, MoT. At the SF: Matt Barnes, Woods, Jalen, Q. This year more than half of those guys are gone so the minutes are more plentiful.

Get that through your head and stop making the same snit freakin arguement.

EDIT: I forgot Ariza and Butler
Well that name calling just because I disagree (I didn't even say anything rude to you) is the reason I left. My response is the same as last time: none of those players should have been taking time from Lee.

Bonn you can't take what you know know and apply it to last year. Lee improved his game IMMENSLEY to the point where we are talking he is the best player on the team.

Did you feel that way last year because you wanted a youth movement? Or was it that Lee was a high energy player that you liked and wanted to start? Lee wasn't a starter last year, and in my mind neither was Frye.

If I was Larry I would have started:

Marbury
Jamal
Quentin
Butler(-forgot about him in the players thatw ere ahead of Lee, but he was and with good reason)
Curry

With Frye, Davis, Lee, Nate, Woods, Ariza off the bench(and I also would like to point out how truly comparable these players are lending to the theory we had no real starters on this team at the beginning other than Steph-but that is another argument).

Later on, Lee got buried MORE because the moves they made were win now moves. Can't be any argument there, IMO.
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Bonn1997
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11/29/2006  6:22 PM
Did you feel that way last year because you wanted a youth movement? Or was it that Lee was a high energy player that you liked and wanted to start?
It was both. I hated seeing Rose and AD start ahead of Frye and Lee. Even if you think those guys needed some min, surely they didn't have to start ahead of him.
Bonn1997
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11/29/2006  6:25 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Bonn1997:

I think it's reasonable to play Lee more and some guys less but we've been through this. Even if I had put no thought into your side, there's no reason to be rude about it.

Benching Marbury for the start of the second half is rude and embarrassing, but until he understands what the expectation of him are and can perform to those expectation, it will come. My expectations of you hold the same.
But you're making an incorrect assumption that I hadn't thought about your side. I did think about it. I simply didn't change my view because I wasn't persuaded. I repeated my view because the same issue came up again. Is it really out of line to repeat my position? Am I really supposed to not repeat my position simply because you had previously disagreed with it? Gosh I feel like banging my head against a wall!

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 11-29-2006 6:26 PM]
joec32033
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11/29/2006  6:27 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Did you feel that way last year because you wanted a youth movement? Or was it that Lee was a high energy player that you liked and wanted to start?
It was both. I hated seeing Rose and AD start ahead of Frye and Lee. Even if you think those guys needed some min, surely they didn't have to start ahead of him.

Last year was a win now year Bonn. That is what was trying to be done last year. If it wasn't Barnes wouldn't have started the first game of the season and the guys that played wouldn't have played would have been the vets.

Of course how much $$$ and politics played into last year we will never know.
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martin
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11/29/2006  6:31 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Did you feel that way last year because you wanted a youth movement? Or was it that Lee was a high energy player that you liked and wanted to start?
It was both. I hated seeing Rose and AD start ahead of Frye and Lee. Even if you think those guys needed some min, surely they didn't have to start ahead of him.

You felt that Frye or Lee should have started last year ahead of AD and next to Curry. Holy crap.
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Bonn1997
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11/29/2006  6:36 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Did you feel that way last year because you wanted a youth movement? Or was it that Lee was a high energy player that you liked and wanted to start?
It was both. I hated seeing Rose and AD start ahead of Frye and Lee. Even if you think those guys needed some min, surely they didn't have to start ahead of him.

You felt that Frye or Lee should have started last year ahead of AD and next to Curry. Holy crap.
I never said Curry should start and I've criticized Isiah for starting him.

franco12
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11/29/2006  6:42 PM
I think the one positive I see from Isiah is he has put forth an offensive system that better matches with the skills of our players- now, that isn't saying that they have executed all the time- but they have.

This is an improvement over LB who I thought was a horrible fit.

He has, I think, gotten through to Starbury and Francis- and while they don't work out together on the court, there might be a chance we can trade one of them.

This is in diametric opposition to LB who destroyed their value utterly with is spat with Marbury and not playing Francis at all.

I have seen flashes of aggression from Curry. Now, this isn't fair to compare him to last year since he was hurt/out of shape.

But he has been on the court for long stretches- more so than last year.

Balkman has gotten time and might not under LB- who knows.

Nate is, at times, looking like he might figure the PG thing out.

I give isiah credit for this.
martin
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11/29/2006  6:43 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Did you feel that way last year because you wanted a youth movement? Or was it that Lee was a high energy player that you liked and wanted to start?
It was both. I hated seeing Rose and AD start ahead of Frye and Lee. Even if you think those guys needed some min, surely they didn't have to start ahead of him.

You felt that Frye or Lee should have started last year ahead of AD and next to Curry. Holy crap.
I never said Curry should start and I've criticized Isiah for starting him.

Hey, I don't think that Curry should start THIS year and he is much better than last year, but welcome to reality: LB HAD to start Curry, which means AD and/or Malik also had to start. And thus the reasonable excuse why Frye/Lee didn't get the minutes or the starts that they did.
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misterearl
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11/29/2006  8:28 PM
>>Benching Marbury for the start of the second half is rude and embarrassing

Martin - that is the point

the only weapon a coach has is minutes

party on dudes
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misterearl
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11/29/2006  8:30 PM
>>The players seem to have lost their joy.

fish.mike - or are they working through significant injuries the best way they can?

someone have the locker room report verbatum?
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misterearl
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11/29/2006  8:39 PM
franco - thank you

Isiah has brought discipline

you suck

you sit

i like that
once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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11/29/2006  8:40 PM
as a bonus he does not start players based on their hometown

Larry got a free pass on that one
once a knick always a knick
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