Knick Fan #1: "When you look at the team's home record you wonder if the booing might have some kind of effect on the team's play."

Knick Fan #2: "So you say it's ALL the fans fault!!? What a way to make excuses for these pansies!! We want REAL MEN for this team!! This is NY!!"

The constant urge to make sweeping generalizations about any observation that doesn't fit the point of view of Knick Fan #2 is quite glaring, I think. Are the Knicks at fault for their play? Of course they are, but do fans have an effect on their play as well? The long term evidence shows that this is always the case, whether we spew cliched comments like "This is NY!" or not.

It should be up to the players to prove themselves, but maybe some fans should think about how their booing plays a role as well. Generally, it's the players FAR MORE than the fans, but anyone that knows what it is like to work in a negative environment, which has been the aura surrounding the Knicks over the past few years, understands how hard it can be to perform in that situation, especially if things start to reinforce reminders of that negative vibe.

Maybe the reality then is that Dolan made a BIG mistake in keeping Isiah around. I think that's starting to be the reality for those that hoped that the Dolan ultimatum would work, unless we see the team find a way to overcome their inconsistent habits. I just think, like the way many on this forum appear to feel, that the media and many fans' patience level is so low, and hold Isiah so responsible for everything wrong -- whether this is true or not true -- that there may be such little hope for this team to grow and make mistakes.

This is one of the reasons why I was fine with firing Isiah after last season, but I thought that the ultimatum from Dolan would work to hold off the negative vibe. I believe I was wrong now, because the micro-analysis of Isiah's coaching, particularly with regards to rotations and playing time, and how both the players and fans can't help but think of Brown last year in this same regard, just seems to reinforce the negativity.


[Edited by - PresIke on 11-26-2006 1:57 PM]

Miami is 2-5 at home and 3-3 on the road -- is it their fans fault? Seattle is 2-4 at home and 4-4 on the road -- is it their fans fault?

Posted by simrud:

I'm guaranteeing in 15 games this trend will prove to be a statistical anomaly, and just like with every excuse made for IT and his pathetic looses, people will pretend like they never said it.

[Edited by - simrud on 11-26-2006 3:42 PM]

[Edited by - simrud on 11-26-2006 3:42 PM]

Which posters have used the booing as an excuse for Isiah?

There are two types of players. There are players who play to win championships and will do anything to win and wont let anything bother them. If they lose, especially with a poor effort, they know they deserve all the booing in the world and probably want to hear it. They can feed off a loud cheering crowd and it can pump them up even extra, but they play to win regardless of the crowd.

Then there's the type of player that thinks the crowd needs to be cheering for them no matter what and if they start booing, they think they have no right to boo, even though the fans paid their hard earned money to see them playing like crap (In hopes that they just play their arses off.) These types of players are soft and probably have a similar mentality to Keith Van Horn. They most likely aren't championship players, b/c afterall, if they can't handle the pressure of the big bad NY fans, then how can they possibly handle the intensity of the playoffs?

The people saying that our crowd is too harsh are nuts.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Trade the MSG fans.

How about trading NY fans? They're the worst in all sports on their players.

it's always funny when i hear sports fans who don't even live here or go to any of the games make such comments about NY sports fans.

I lived 80% of my life in NY. I've lived in other areas (including other countries) for the other 20%. So, I've gotten a lot of first hand experience with both NY and other area fans. I've attended many Knick games at MSG and at other arenas. One could probably more easily argue that someone who's only lived in NY (not necessarily you; I don't know where you've lived) has insufficient experience to weigh in on the topic.


[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 11-27-2006 11:18 AM]

Posted by TMS:

i moved to Staten Island in '74 & been living in & around NYC ever since... i went to at least 15 Knick games a year for the past 4 seasons before this year because i couldn't stand the piss poor return on my investment every night anymore... i go to at least 20 Yankee games a year & have never booed anyone that didn't deserve to get booed (no, i've never booed A-Rod because I actually like the guy & his effort, but can't say the same about Kevin Brown or Jeff Weaver).. i consider myself a DAMN good fan of sports in general & a diehard fan of all my NY teams (Yankees/Knicks/Giants)... so yeah, i don't appreciate when people call us the "worst fans in sports", because i consider myself a part of that fanbase.

i'm not saying you're any less of a fan for not living here, but to diss those of us that do live here is uncalled for imo.

I wasn't dissing based on geographic location. I was dissing NY sports' team fans, of which I am a member. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I'm a NY fan (living outside NY state at the moment). It's obviously only a small percentage who boo guys giving 100% also and only those deserve blame. I didn't think it was necessary to put all those qualifiers in my initial post, but maybe I should have been clearer.

Well we're not the most desireable franchise to play for, but nor are we the least:

From the Deseret Morning News...

According to a Sports Illustrated poll of 248 NBA players, 27 percent named the Jazz as the team (other than they're own) for which they would least like to play.

Toronto was second at 16 percent, followed by Atlanta (10 percent) and Milwaukee (six percent).

San Antonio was picked as the team respondents would most-like to play for at 13 percent, followed by Miami (11 percent).

Posted by Allanfan20:

TMS, there are a few cases when the Knick fans in particular were horrible, like booing Ewing, and booing Houston at the charity game and the open practice.

booing Allan Houston at a charity game was classless & completely unnecessary, i give u that... but i can't say Ewing or Allan didn't deserve to get booed at times during their careers at the Garden... sometimes their games just weren't clicking & the fans let them know about it... it didn't help matters when Ewing would raise his arms & egg them on even more or act surly towards the fans in public & to the press.

Ewing gave his heart & soul for this franchise, & for that he has earned the NY fans' respect, but that doesn't mean at times the fans weren't justified for booing him... that's the only point i'm trying to make.

Posted by TMS:

u want to know who the worst fans in sports are? the ones that never show up to support their teams & force them to move their location to another city. NY fans have always been avid supporters of their franchises, & that will never change... to call us the worst in sports is a joke.

ring the bell!