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This can be torn down and rebuilt...
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fishmike
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11/14/2006  12:22 PM
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by playa2:

I love the part about moving those guys fishmike, but how are they gonna sell those $2000 seats with no name youngsters and no immediate plan ?
are they selling now?
It's a corporation that needs instant profits. They'll probably get a new GM and he'll use the young guys as assets to pull off another "Marbury type trade" that temporarily re-generates enthusiasm and sales.
Thats just silly. What a corporation needs is a good business model. They are BLEEDING cash right now. They are still paying Lenny Wilkens. Knicks are payinf $71mm to guys not on the roster right now. That does NOT include the luxury tax which makes it what? $125mm? What jersey sales or luxury boxes are making that back this year?

Hell... let Malik Rose finish coaching for the season. Let Marbury pout on then end of the bench with a towel over his head because Mardy Collins is taking his minutes because Mardy plays can keep his man in front of him.

I dont care. The more I watch the more Larry's bizarro sub patterns make sense. To bad he screwed things up with trying to underman Isiah. I dont blame him but you gotta about things better. But those veteran players all figured they were a bad season away from getting another coach so their quitting payed off.

Regardless, the point is this thing needs to be blown up, and it can be done.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
AUTOADVERT
fishmike
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11/14/2006  12:24 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Solace is right, Franbury doesn't expire until 08/09. Your looking at RealGM and they count the last year of someones contract as year 0.
http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm

two years AFTER this one

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
PresIke
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11/14/2006  12:55 PM
Can and will when it comes to the notion of "tearing it down," unfortunately for many Knick fans over the past 5 years, have just not been one and the same.

In other words, the Knicks could have been "rebuilt" for the past 7 years, as one very knowledgable person formerly advocated after the '99 Finals, cheul2, on the NY Times Forum back then, but have not for reasons that go beyond fans concern with Isiah, in my view.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
arkrud
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11/14/2006  12:58 PM
Money lost anyway.
Why to lose the time?
They need to start shopping Marbs/Francis/Curry/JJ for expiring/garbage/picks and offer cash to compensate the future salaries.
Then wave the players they get and let IT work with picks and some chip signings
And let the dogs out. Let the young guys play and the Garden will be rocking again regardless of the win/lose

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
NYKBocker
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11/14/2006  1:30 PM
The only thing I want done on this team right now is trade or sit Dinglebury. I actually like Steve Francis in that he puts forth a good effort when he is playing. No more trades. Let's get this young group working and stop making bonehead moves.
TMS
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11/14/2006  2:19 PM
get rid of Marbury & Francis... buy them out if you have to at a reduced rate... there's zero potential of this team going anywhere w/either of them leading this team... any plan for the future MUST include getting rid of those guys imo.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
eViL
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11/14/2006  2:24 PM
This is the current outlook for the Knicks cap. This is taken from Hoopshype plus I factored in the remaining years on Curry and Jeffries by adding 10% raises for each consecutive year that they are signed.

Tear it up, armchair GM's.


Player			2007/08		2008/09		2009/10		2010/11
Stephon Marbury		$20,109,375 	$21,937,500 	$0 		$0 			
Steve Francis		$16,440,000 	$17,180,000 	$0 		$0 			
Eddy Curry		$8,988,213 	$9,887,035 	$10,875,738 	$0 				
Quentin Richardson	$8,825,750 	$9,352,500 	$0 		$0 				
Jamal Crawford		$7,920,000 	$8,640,000 	$9,360,000 	$10,080,000 				
Malik Rose		$7,101,250 	$7,953,400 	$0      	$0 		 		
Jerome James		$5,800,000 	$6,200,000 	$6,600,000 	$0 				
Jared Jeffries		$5,736,500 	$6,310,150 	$6,941,165 	$7,635,282 				
Channing Frye		$2,487,240 	$3,163,769 	$4,264,760 	$0 				
Nate Robinson		$1,268,160 	$2,020,178 	$2,911,077 	$0 				
Renaldo Balkman		$1,234,800 	$1,320,960 	$2,036,920 	$2,918,906 				
David Lee		$990,600 	$1,788,033 	$2,682,049 	$0 				
Mardy Collins		$932,760 	$997,800 	$1,801,029 	$2,701,543 				
TOTALS:			$87,834,648 	$96,751,325 	$47,472,738  	$23,335,731
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
TheGame
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11/14/2006  2:41 PM
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:

We need to dump 40 mill of slowing aging overpaid pgs now for contracts that end 1-2 years sooner no matter what crap we take back. as these guys get worse their contracts keep going up. Next year they will be impossible to move. This year they arent. Isiah even said people have called about Francis

I think Francis can actually be traded. He does not make as much as Marbury and in the right system, he can be effective. We would not get anything great back, but if we could pickup a 1st round pick and a player that fits the team a little better, we would have to call it a day and be happy. Really if you move Francis, you can start Q at 2 guard, with Jeffries at the 3. Marbury and Nate at point, with Crawford being the 6th man. Add Curry, Lee, and Frye and another year of development, and I think you would actually have a pretty decent team, especially if Frye can find his game and Jeffries can make as much of an impact on defense as I think he can.
Trust the Process
TMS
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11/14/2006  2:55 PM
forget about getting a 1st round pick back for Francis... i'd be happy w/any player w/a shorter term contract at this point.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
djsunyc
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11/14/2006  3:35 PM
Posted by eViL:

This is the current outlook for the Knicks cap. This is taken from Hoopshype plus I factored in the remaining years on Curry and Jeffries by adding 10% raises for each consecutive year that they are signed.

Tear it up, armchair GM's.


Player			2007/08		2008/09		2009/10		2010/11
Stephon Marbury		$20,109,375 	$21,937,500 	$0 		$0 			
Steve Francis		$16,440,000 	$17,180,000 	$0 		$0 			
Eddy Curry		$8,988,213 	$9,887,035 	$10,875,738 	$0 				
Quentin Richardson	$8,825,750 	$9,352,500 	$0 		$0 				
Jamal Crawford		$7,920,000 	$8,640,000 	$9,360,000 	$10,080,000 				
Malik Rose		$7,101,250 	$7,953,400 	$0      	$0 		 		
Jerome James		$5,800,000 	$6,200,000 	$6,600,000 	$0 				
Jared Jeffries		$5,736,500 	$6,310,150 	$6,941,165 	$7,635,282 				
Channing Frye		$2,487,240 	$3,163,769 	$4,264,760 	$0 				
Nate Robinson		$1,268,160 	$2,020,178 	$2,911,077 	$0 				
Renaldo Balkman		$1,234,800 	$1,320,960 	$2,036,920 	$2,918,906 				
David Lee		$990,600 	$1,788,033 	$2,682,049 	$0 				
Mardy Collins		$932,760 	$997,800 	$1,801,029 	$2,701,543 				
TOTALS:			$87,834,648 	$96,751,325 	$47,472,738  	$23,335,731

eddy has one more year, he signed a 6 year $60 mil deal last summer.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 11-14-2006 3:38 PM]
misterearl
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11/14/2006  3:58 PM
I can live with the nine-man 2009/10 core

Mardy will be dishing and swishing by then
once a knick always a knick
wsdm
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11/14/2006  4:00 PM
Posted by ultknicks524:
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by islesfan:

Isiah really f***ed us, didn't he?
Dolan did

No. Isiah did. Dolan did not call up the Suns offering that idiotic trade. Dolan did not call up the Magic and offer Ariza and Penny's expiring contract.

The team was $crewed WAAAAAY before those two deals
www.selltheknicks.com----No more DOLANOMICS!
misterearl
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11/14/2006  4:12 PM
>>The team was $crewed WAAAAAY before those two deals

wsdm - thank you

Ewing for 68M

Houston for 100M

Felton Spencer, Slavko Vranes, Eric Chenowith, Maceo Baston, Michael Wright, Lavor Postell, Travis Knight, Howard Eisley, Lazzaro Borell, Erick Strickland, Dontae Jones, Milos Vujanic, Clarence Weatherspoon, Freddie's Dead... "that's what I said"... Weis...Glen Rice...

sheesh

once a knick always a knick
fishmike
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11/14/2006  4:41 PM
Posted by misterearl:

>>The team was $crewed WAAAAAY before those two deals

wsdm - thank you

Ewing for 68M

Houston for 100M

Felton Spencer, Slavko Vranes, Eric Chenowith, Maceo Baston, Michael Wright, Lavor Postell, Travis Knight, Howard Eisley, Lazzaro Borell, Erick Strickland, Dontae Jones, Milos Vujanic, Clarence Weatherspoon, Freddie's Dead... "that's what I said"... Weis...Glen Rice...

sheesh
and guess what? Talk about repeating mistakes. This could have been the year where we waive good bye to Houston, Spoon, Shandon, JYD and been under the cap. Instead we have what you see here.

Sheesh indeed. Thank god I think we are getting our tri-annual new GM Christmas present. Hopefully this one works out better

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Solace
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11/14/2006  5:19 PM
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by ultknicks524:
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by islesfan:

Isiah really f***ed us, didn't he?
Dolan did

No. Isiah did. Dolan did not call up the Suns offering that idiotic trade. Dolan did not call up the Magic and offer Ariza and Penny's expiring contract.

The team was $crewed WAAAAAY before those two deals

I guess if we're still "$crewed" in five years, because of inept management, we'll continue to blame Layden? Is it unreasonable to expect the GM to stop repeating past mistakes? Is it unreasonable to expect the GM to try to pull us out of the hole? Three years ago, we were talking about getting under the cap in three years. Now, today, we're still talking about getting under the cap in three to four years, as that is the earliest possible point we can do it (and only with some trades of longer contracts for shorter ones). I believe Hoopshype showed our team salary for this year is $139 million. Sound like progress? Sounds like regression to me.

[Edited by - Solace on 11-14-2006 5:19 PM]
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
wsdm
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11/14/2006  6:48 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by ultknicks524:
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by islesfan:

Isiah really f***ed us, didn't he?
Dolan did

No. Isiah did. Dolan did not call up the Suns offering that idiotic trade. Dolan did not call up the Magic and offer Ariza and Penny's expiring contract.

The team was $crewed WAAAAAY before those two deals

I guess if we're still "$crewed" in five years, because of inept management, we'll continue to blame Layden?
I never once blamed Layden. He probably did no worse than any GM could do under the constraints of the corporation running the Knicks.

www.selltheknicks.com----No more DOLANOMICS!
realhiphop
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11/14/2006  7:00 PM
I'm willing to concede that Dolan is part of the problem. He isn't the one who makes the personnel decisions. To think that he would want to pay Jalen Rose and Malik Taylor for not suiting up is nuts.
playa2
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11/15/2006  10:03 AM
Dolan puts his trust in the gm he hires , so maybe he should get another Ernie Grunfeld Type who actually played for the knicks to become our leader in decision making.

IMHO KIKI V would be our next choice as gm.

I want a guy who cares about the "ORANGE & BLUE"
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
misterearl
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11/15/2006  10:28 AM
The Knicks HAD an Ernie Grunfeld type

Ernie Grunfeld
once a knick always a knick
fishmike
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11/15/2006  10:35 AM
Posted by misterearl:

The Knicks HAD an Ernie Grunfeld type

Ernie Grunfeld
probably the best set of trades the Knicks have made in 20 years. He had the vision and balls to trade two of the most popular Knicks because he knew that we needed to get younger and more athletic. Out were vintage "true" Knicks in Starks and Oakley and in were Camby and Sprewell. Also out was Mason for LJ. He added Childs and Houston when Harper and Starks were getting old, and signed Houston and Childs to REASONABLE contracts.

Ernie did a good job. His problems with JVG and Checketts got him canned as I recall

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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