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oohah
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11/11/2006  10:57 AM
Frye has not been any better.

I agree, but I think Frye will be better, and better for the team, if he is the frontcourt player who is getting featured and put ina a position to succeed. I also think if Curry is not featured he is actually ina better position to succeed and for the team to succeeed.
We can micro-analyze drawn charges or whatever. Fact is the lesser of two evils is Curry. Curry gives us something we need in the starting lineup (a legit post threat on offense).

I don't know about that. Frye has been awful on offense, but Curry has become the player he has always been, a one-half wonder.

I think Frye, once he gets his O together, is a better rebounder and is developing his defense which Curry has not done in 6 years.
Now don't misunderstand-I personally don't believe either of them should be starting. I wouldn't mind seeing a starting lineup of Lee at Center, Balkman at PF(until Jefferies comes back-when you can put him at PF and move Balkman to the 3 and Q to the 2), Q at the 3, Craw at the 2 and a toss up of wither Steph or Stve at the 1 with the other off the bench.

I like those guys but there is no offense in that front court, and that is a recipe for even more losing.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
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Vmart
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11/11/2006  10:59 AM
Posted by joec32033:
Curry has been totally featured, which I think is a mistake as I believe he should be getting his points from the flow, ont as the focus, which stagnates the offense.
Frye has not been any better.
Frye has also been drawing about 1 charge a game. The fact that Curry is only averaging 2 rebounds moe per game while Frye has been abysmal on offense doesn't excite me.
We can micro-analyze drawn charges or whatever. Fact is the lesser of two evils is Curry. Curry gives us something we need in the starting lineup (a legit post threat on offense).

Now don't misunderstand-I personally don't believe either of them should be starting. I wouldn't mind seeing a starting lineup of Lee at Center, Balkman at PF(until Jefferies comes back-when you can put him at PF and move Balkman to the 3 and Q to the 2), Q at the 3, Craw at the 2 and a toss up of wither Steph or Stve at the 1 with the other off the bench.

You are right Joe, Curry gives the KNicks a post threat. People forget the Denver game one of the big shots came from a Curry assist to Marbury. It was Curry's ability to draw a double and kick the ball out for the three that helped the Knicks stay in striking distance. Curry has to work on his passing game he doesn't need to shoot everytime he gets the ball.

joec32033
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11/11/2006  11:06 AM
I agree, but I think Frye will be better, and better for the team, if he is the frontcourt player who is getting featured and put ina a position to succeed. I also think if Curry is not featured he is actually ina better position to succeed and for the team to succeeed.
I agree about Curry. However that is a coaching thing.

About Frye, I have no doubt he will get better, but will he get better than what Curry's normal production is? I don't know. I think Curry is a better fit in this offense.
I don't know about that. Frye has been awful on offense, but Curry has become the player he has always been, a one-half wonder.

I think Frye, once he gets his O together, is a better rebounder and is developing his defense which Curry has not done in 6 years.
Then put Frye on the starting line-up when he comes around and earns it. I have no problem with that.
I like those guys but there is no offense in that front court, and that is a recipe for even more losing.
I think with our team (and Lee looks like he can be a compitant scorer-but I digress) what we need is defense from the front court and let the guards do what they do best. Score.

~You can't run from who you are.~
oohah
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11/11/2006  11:10 AM
I agree about Curry. However that is a coaching thing.

About Frye, I have no doubt he will get better, but will he get better than what Curry's normal production is? I don't know. I think Curry is a better fit in this offense.

I think if Curry is used as aoffense flow player and Frye is the one featured, they will both have a good role.
Then put Frye on the starting line-up when he comes around and earns it. I have no problem with that.

Me neither.
I think with our team (and Lee looks like he can be a compitant scorer-but I digress) what we need is defense from the front court and let the guards do what they do best. Score.

Lee can get some buckets but he not really a scoring 'threat' He gets Dunks and putbacks which is all good, but his man doesn't feel like he can actually score on him. Did you see last night when Lee actually tried to make a move? Not good. It's a totally different story from pre-season.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Vmart
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11/11/2006  11:17 AM
Posted by oohah:
I agree about Curry. However that is a coaching thing.

About Frye, I have no doubt he will get better, but will he get better than what Curry's normal production is? I don't know. I think Curry is a better fit in this offense.

I think if Curry is used as aoffense flow player and Frye is the one featured, they will both have a good role.
Then put Frye on the starting line-up when he comes around and earns it. I have no problem with that.

Me neither.
I think with our team (and Lee looks like he can be a compitant scorer-but I digress) what we need is defense from the front court and let the guards do what they do best. Score.

Lee can get some buckets but he not really a scoring 'threat' He gets Dunks and putbacks which is all good, but his man doesn't feel like he can actually score on him. Did you see last night when Lee actually tried to make a move? Not good. It's a totally different story from pre-season.

oohah

Putbacks and Dunks are the thing Frye isn't providing. He is to busy hanging out on the perimeter to be able to do that. Those are just the kind of hustle plays that gets the other aspect of a players game going. If anything Frye isn't showing hustle out there he is just using up valuable court time.
joec32033
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11/11/2006  11:19 AM
I think if Curry is used as aoffense flow player and Frye is the one featured, they will both have a good role.
I don't think Frye has the skills to be a featured offensive player. I think he is a second option guy at very best.
Lee can get some buckets but he not really a scoring 'threat' He gets Dunks and putbacks which is all good, but his man doesn't feel like he can actually score on him. Did you see last night when Lee actually tried to make a move? Not good. It's a totally different story from pre-season.
I think that the other team having to worry about him on the offensive glass is just as good as an offensive move. Marion is a scoring threat and he scores the exact same way as Lee does. He never gets plays run for him.
~You can't run from who you are.~
nixluva
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11/11/2006  11:21 AM
All of these early games are providing information that isiah will be able to use later in the season. For one thing we know that this team CAN play D, with the right players on the court. We had some nice mixes of starters and bench players that was effective. Then factor in that we still have Jared in the wings.

Isiah is banking on being able to get Curry and Frye on track cuz if he's successful, then this is gonna be a VERY good team. He's in a sense forcing things a bit early so that he can accelerate the process. Frye being so mentally out of it, is hurting Isiah's ability to get him much needed minutes. SO I really hope he can snap out of it. We need Frye and Curry to play at an acceptable level in order to be a good team. So Isiah isn't about to give up on them after 6 games.
oohah
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11/11/2006  11:34 AM
Putbacks and Dunks are the thing Frye isn't providing. He is to busy hanging out on the perimeter to be able to do that. Those are just the kind of hustle plays that gets the other aspect of a players game going. If anything Frye isn't showing hustle out there he is just using up valuable court time.

Putnbacks and Dunks are not Frye's game and isn't what he shold be asked for. Putbacks and Dunks are much more up Curry's alley.

I can't see how you can say Frye isn't Hustling. He's getting blocks steals and rebounds in limited minutes because his offense has been so bad. Please show me an example of Frye not hustling.

oohah
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
djsunyc
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11/11/2006  11:37 AM
frye is hustling and trying but he's just not fast enough to stay with his man. he's not quick enough to react to the ball. and his head is totally out of the game. and 2nd half benchings ain't helping either.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 11-11-2006 11:37 AM]
oohah
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11/11/2006  11:37 AM
I don't think Frye has the skills to be a featured offensive player. I think he is a second option guy at very best.

Our featured players would be the guards. Frye would be about the third option. right now he is number 5 (And playing like #15).
I think that the other team having to worry about him on the offensive glass is just as good as an offensive move. Marion is a scoring threat and he scores the exact same way as Lee does. He never gets plays run for him.

Hacving a guy who mainly can get putbacks etc. is only as good as long as you have another guy next to him that can score on his own moves (Stoudemire, Diaw). Also, you underestimate Marion. Though he has no plays run for him, he can score, not just clean up. He has a quite serviceable outside shot and he has that funky one-handed move going to the basket that he is money with.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
oohah
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11/11/2006  11:38 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

frye is hustling and trying but he's just not fast enough to stay with his man. he's not quick enough to react to the ball. and his head is totally out of the game. and 2nd half benchings ain't helping either.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 11-11-2006 11:37 AM]

I cannot see what IT can do beside benh him the way he is playing.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
djsunyc
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11/11/2006  11:41 AM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by djsunyc:

frye is hustling and trying but he's just not fast enough to stay with his man. he's not quick enough to react to the ball. and his head is totally out of the game. and 2nd half benchings ain't helping either.

I cannot see what IT can do beside benh him the way he is playing.

oohah

there's nothing isiah can do. this is on frye to work through his own sh t. hopefully he can.
nyk4ever
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11/11/2006  11:55 AM
Posted by oohah:



I cannot see what IT can do beside benh him the way he is playing.

oohah

I still want to send Frye to Portland for a package or to Golden State for Diogu.
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BasketballJones
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11/11/2006  12:00 PM

I'd prefer to see Lee staring and Frye coming off the bench, which seemed to work well last year.

However, this discussion brings up an interesting point: So far The Knicks have had a consistent starting lineup, but for replacing Francis with Crawforrd due to Injury.
https:// It's not so hard.
fishmike
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11/11/2006  12:08 PM
Frye has NEVER failed to hustle or play hard. I have no doubt that he gives 100%.

HOWEVER

He's a center.
Between this year and last year he's proven that he simply can NOT stay with NBA powerforwards
He's need to get the ball everywhere. With Curry here he only see's long jumpers. He and Curry are a lousy fit together on offense.
In 4 years of CBB, last year and this year he's demonstrated for a 6'11 player he's an average rebounder. The amount of offesive rebounds he gives up to whoever he's guarding are excessive, and usually result in dunks.

Collecting a block here or a steal there doesnt impress me when you cant contest shots or box out. There's a reason we are down double digits every game early.

Isiah passed on Bynum and Gerald Green and other guys with more upside because he needed a bigman (post KT trade) that could help us right now. Right now Isiah's pride is ruining this season, because his two touted horses up front dont mix and its plain as day to anyone watching not named oohah
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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11/11/2006  12:09 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:


I'd prefer to see Lee staring and Frye coming off the bench, which seemed to work well last year.

However, this discussion brings up an interesting point: So far The Knicks have had a consistent starting lineup, but for replacing Francis with Crawforrd due to Injury.
yes... and they have consistantly been down double digits every game. Consistancy is a beautiful thing huh?

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Andrew
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11/11/2006  12:25 PM
What good is a consistent starting lineup when the same players don't start the 2nd half? Think that helps with team chemistry?
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oohah
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11/11/2006  12:27 PM
Isiah passed on Bynum and Gerald Green and other guys with more upside because he needed a bigman (post KT trade) that could help us right now. Right now Isiah's pride is ruining this season, because his two touted horses up front dont mix and its plain as day to anyone watching not named oohah

It's too bad you can't read fishmike because if you could you would see in this very thread and many others I have pointed out they are having trouble mixing.

And if you don't see Frye contesting shots this year moreso than any other player on the team I will advise you that the optometrist needs to set you up with a new prescription.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
joec32033
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11/11/2006  1:04 PM
Our featured players would be the guards. Frye would be about the third option. right now he is number 5 (And playing like #15).
This is how it should be played. I agree. Difference between Frye and Curry is that Curry can be a 1st option scorer, but it looks like he won't accomplish that. I would prefer to pick Frye or Curry trade the other for something we can use(a stud pass first PG perhaps), A stud, power player PF/C(Amare!).
Hacving a guy who mainly can get putbacks etc. is only as good as long as you have another guy next to him that can score on his own moves (Stoudemire, Diaw).
Curry is capable of doing that. Frye isn't.
Also, you underestimate Marion. Though he has no plays run for him, he can score, not just clean up.
I am not underestimating anything. I was saying exactly what you are saying. Fact is Marion doesn't get any plays for him and score on this eam. That is what I said. I never said he couldn't score on his own. Marion himself said a while ago he never gets any plays run for him. D'Antoni said the same thing.
He has a quite serviceable outside shot and he has that funky one-handed move going to the basket that he is money with.
Marion wasn' a good outside shooter when he first got into the L. He worked on it like Lee is working on it. I also think Lee is very underrated off the dribble. He was recruited to FLA. as a 6-2 PG then he sprouted 7 inches in college. He can handle and pass.
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OffDaMeterzzzz
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11/11/2006  2:35 PM
At least we are all in agreement that there are major problems with our starting unit particularly in the frontcourt.

I still feel we should get rid of the whole team in order to rebuild and get players with HEART but since we have this bunch for now something must be done.

Perhaps we should tinker with the starting lineup since the season is still young. I agree with DJ that we have a major issue regarding the lack of disparity in talent between our bench and starting unit.

Curry and Frye tandem is def not working.

Some suggestions:

DLee
Jeffries
Frye (Fishmike says he is a Center)
Q Rich
Marbury



D Lee
Jeffries
Curry
Q Rich
Marbury

Either Curry or Frye should come off the bench. IMO Steve has not warranted starting, however he will cry if he comes off the bench. I would cut or trade him immediately. He is not Marbury's successor is he is not better than Marbury IMO Marbury's jumpshot separates the 2 by far.

Bring Nate, Balkman, Crawford off the bench immediately if any player is stinking it up. I would consider starting Nate and Balkman but that would really throw things in a loop plus their energy might be better off the bench with lots of playing time.

Q Rich has to START IMO. He is the only starting player, who is playing like one. Not a Q Rich "lover". I am going by the advisement of my optometrist.

What do you guys and girls think?
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