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OT: Bynum tonight..
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tkf
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11/9/2006  1:12 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by martin:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by crzymdups:

to be fair, he did still out rebound Curry and had less turnovers and more blocks. Bynum just seems to have a more developed understanding of the game than Frye or Curry, and he's four years younger. I'm not rooting against our guys, but it's hard not to look at guys we could have had and feel a little regret. Frye was the "win now" pick, but we're not winning now.


yea, but the dude had no baskets with pryzbilla not even playing. And when does drafting a 22 year old player ever become a win now pick.. come on man, how does that even sound?

because he was picked over a 18 year old win later prospect?

still doesn't make sense, when you draft guys, you feel that you will get 10-12 years out of the guy, weither he is 18 or 22, so I don't see your point here. Frye was the better player who IT felt still had plenty of upside, drafting one player over another who is a few years older is not a win now move, how many rookies outside of lebron were expected to come in and help their team win now? I know that wasn't the book on frye....

Frye was more ready to play right away than Bynum but Bynum had/has more upside. That's what's called win now. Isiah is and has always been about win now or win very soon instead of building a long term solution. Sure, Frye may give you a good 10-12 years, but Bynum may give you a VERY GOOD 10-12 years... and at the time of the draft Bynum's start of those years was further away then Fryes. That's a win now attitude.

How do you know that bynum has more upside? what evidence was there of that? tell me? so far frye has given the knicks one fantastic year and bynum has given the lakers 1 year of nothing, so far you are off track on your prediction..

Let me ask you this. If I take wade over Gerald Green, am I trying to win now, or just taking the young player who is not only better now, but still has the upside to get better? huh? I never understand when a GM drafts a kid even if he is 22 as a win now move? makes no sense to me..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
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crzymdups
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11/9/2006  1:15 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:

I don't understand how its NOT a win now move when the two players in questions would both fill a need in the frount-court with the Knicks and both are projected to be in the lottery. Now One of them is coming out of high school and the other is a 4year college player, keep in mind they both fill the same need and they both are projected to be in the top10. If drafting the 4year college player over the guy with less talent at the moment but has the chance to be a VERY special and one of a kind player, isn't a safe pick than I don't know what it is.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 11-09-2006 01:11 AM]

well, safe and win now are different things.

how about this: we passed up one highly rated high school center in the lottery that we could have taken with our own lottery pick and then three months later traded two lotto picks and one player recently taken in the lotto for a guy who had been picked in the lotto as a high school center, but had underachieved and had health/conditioning issues. is that the win now move? if that move pays off, great. if not you look dumb. it didn't pay off, and right now the high school center who would have only cost us one lotto pick looks just as good as the one who cost us two.

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tkf
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11/9/2006  1:15 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:

I don't understand how its NOT a win now move when the two players in questions would both fill a need in the frount-court with the Knicks and both are projected to be in the lottery. Now One of them is coming out of high school and the other is a 4year college player, keep in mind they both fill the same need and they both are projected to be in the top10. If drafting the 4year college player over the guy with less talent at the moment but has the chance to be a VERY special and one of a kind player because of his size and skills isn't a safe pick, than I don't know what a safe pick is.



[Edited by - nyk4ever on 11-09-2006 01:12 AM]

maybe this is called minimizing your risk. All I hear when it comes to bynum is he may, or has the potential, or could be. Why not take a 22 year old who is already good, and still has the maybe or could be to his game also? It was a move based on talent, and during the draft many believed that frye was just the better player, I mean toronto needed a center why not take bynum? the Hawks? Bobcats? i mean who doesn't need a potential franchise center right?
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
crzymdups
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11/9/2006  1:20 AM
Posted by tkf:

How do you know that bynum has more upside? what evidence was there of that? tell me? so far frye has given the knicks one fantastic year and bynum has given the lakers 1 year of nothing, so far you are off track on your prediction..

Let me ask you this. If I take wade over Gerald Green, am I trying to win now, or just taking the young player who is not only better now, but still has the upside to get better? huh? I never understand when a GM drafts a kid even if he is 22 as a win now move? makes no sense to me..

Frye is not Wade and Bynum is not Gerald Green. but it's not the age, it's the mentality of the pick - it's the mentality that we're not that far away when we are. Frye was taken because it was thought he was more ready than Bynum, not necessarily better. Marbury was traded for because we needed to sell tickets and create excitement, not boring stuff like draft Igoudala (or Dwight Howard?) and get cap space. Curry was traded for because he was high lotto talent available for the low low price of two high lotto picks - because we couldn't wait to use the actual picks, because we thought we were so good that there was no way those would be lotto picks.
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BlueSeats
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11/9/2006  1:29 AM
I'm not taking a side in this issue but this is what I think. isiah took Frye because he wanted guys from winning programs. he wanted guys who were well schooled and of good character.

he wanted to build with guys who would offset the flakiness of our existing veterans.

(Nate is a bit flaky too, but we know the heart he brings to the game)

So if our team had better (any) leadership he might have been more open to bringing in a slow-bake guy like Bynum, but given the state of the team he wanted guys with a track record and a certain pedigree, if you will.
crzymdups
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11/9/2006  1:36 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:

I'm not taking a side in this issue but this is what I think. isiah took Frye because he wanted guys from winning programs. he wanted guys who were well schooled and of good character.

he wanted to build with guys who would offset the flakiness of our existing veterans.

(Nate is a bit flaky too, but we know the heart he brings to the game)

So if our team had better (any) leadership he might have been more open to bringing in a slow-bake guy like Bynum, but given the state of the team he wanted guys with a track record and a certain pedigree, if you will.

that's a good point. NY is a tough tough place to bring any young, impressionable kid with the media and the crazy fan base. but what does that say about the group of guys Isiah acquired? Frye's a good guy and a talented guy. He's putting a TON of pressure on himself right now.
¿ △ ?
tkf
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11/9/2006  2:14 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:

I'm not taking a side in this issue but this is what I think. isiah took Frye because he wanted guys from winning programs. he wanted guys who were well schooled and of good character.

he wanted to build with guys who would offset the flakiness of our existing veterans.

(Nate is a bit flaky too, but we know the heart he brings to the game)

So if our team had better (any) leadership he might have been more open to bringing in a slow-bake guy like Bynum, but given the state of the team he wanted guys with a track record and a certain pedigree, if you will.


good way to put it blue seats.... good post...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Caseloads
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11/9/2006  5:05 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:

I'm not taking a side in this issue but this is what I think. isiah took Frye because he wanted guys from winning programs. he wanted guys who were well schooled and of good character.

he wanted to build with guys who would offset the flakiness of our existing veterans.

(Nate is a bit flaky too, but we know the heart he brings to the game)

So if our team had better (any) leadership he might have been more open to bringing in a slow-bake guy like Bynum, but given the state of the team he wanted guys with a track record and a certain pedigree, if you will.
I've always said, would Bynum have developed well in NY? With the chaos of Larry Brown, with Steph as his PG and leader? At MSG? Bynum would have been on the Kwame Brown EXPRESS path.
fishmike
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11/9/2006  7:23 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:

I'm not taking a side in this issue but this is what I think. isiah took Frye because he wanted guys from winning programs. he wanted guys who were well schooled and of good character.

he wanted to build with guys who would offset the flakiness of our existing veterans.

(Nate is a bit flaky too, but we know the heart he brings to the game)

So if our team had better (any) leadership he might have been more open to bringing in a slow-bake guy like Bynum, but given the state of the team he wanted guys with a track record and a certain pedigree, if you will.
I think thats like 10% of why he drafted Frye. The other 90% is he was a 4 year college player, was pretty polished and Isiah figured someone like that could come in and help right away. Remember he just traded away his best frontcourt player in KT.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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11/9/2006  8:09 AM
"Win now" move would have been trading the lottery pick for Webber or K-Mart. I think Isiah genuinely thought Frye was the better short and long term player
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playa2
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11/9/2006  8:50 AM
Posted by tkf:

2 points 6 fouls....

hey it is only fair, with all the bynum ass kissing going on around here..

again the overhyping of other players just to put our players down is a little ridiculous...

Kobe taking all the shots can easily discourage the young lad's team oriented mentality.

When kobe score 17-22 pts they do well as a team

When Kobe was out the fakers played as a team. when he gets 30+ oh well

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
playa2
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11/9/2006  8:54 AM
Posted by tkf:

The raptors also needed a center but took a older player in CV over Bynum. Was that also a win now move?

Did you not know who was GM back then for the Raptors ?? Babock who gave away VINCENT LAMAR CARTER for some shoe boxes and string !

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
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11/9/2006  9:00 AM
Posted by playa2:
Posted by tkf:

2 points 6 fouls....

hey it is only fair, with all the bynum ass kissing going on around here..

again the overhyping of other players just to put our players down is a little ridiculous...

Kobe taking all the shots can easily discourage the young lad's team oriented mentality.

When kobe score 17-22 pts they do well as a team

When Kobe was out the fakers played as a team. when he gets 30+ oh well

wonder if lakers would consider francis for bryant, perhaps add frye in.

Bryant could be an addition by subtraction move.
playa2
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11/9/2006  9:10 AM
Isiah knew he was on a short leash and wouldn't be around if the team didn't win now.

Isiah doesn't have the interest of the franchise for yrs to come on his mind.

He didn't value the potential stud(bynum) in a ny uniform for yrs to come, because he has no intrest in NY beyound this season unless he wins this yr.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
Killa4luv
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11/9/2006  9:12 AM
First of all, lets deal with reality here: Bynum may still be a bust, Kwame Brown showed signs of dominance and what is he now? Olowakandi looked ready to break out, what is he now? We have alot of time before we can definitively say anything about Bynum other than he is a project who has shown flashes over something special, and hes young and has lots of time to prove it. Thats it.

As far as drafting, its not as important that you missed x great player, as it is that you at least got a good player where you picked.

And as of yet, even with Frye slumping, Bynum has has to catch up to what Frye showed last year for a long stretch of the season. Thats a fact lke it or not.
playa2
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11/9/2006  9:19 AM
Killa , neither Kwame Brown or Olowakandi had the all-time NBA career scoring leader as their mentor.

BIGGGGGGGGGGG DIFFERENCE!
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
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11/9/2006  9:26 AM
More Kobe, less wins?

Kobe is a great show, but can he be the focal point? Triangle requires balance. Kobe never can offer that as his talent is dominant.

Phil Jax system makes the players even better. He does not get enough credit. Lakes could be better without Kobe.

Lakes are interesting again.
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11/9/2006  9:28 AM
Posted by playa2:

Killa , neither Kwame Brown or Olowakandi had the all-time NBA career scoring leader as their mentor.

BIGGGGGGGGGGG DIFFERENCE!

Actually Olowakandi did have Kareem mentoring him...albeit for a short time.
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MS
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11/9/2006  9:38 AM
Frye was ****ing 2-11 last night, he looks like the worst player from last years draft, its alarming how bad he has played.

David Lee is the better fit, and Isiah just ignores it, lee would lead the league in rebounds if he was playing 35 minutes a night. You need to play frye with the second unit and make more of an effort to involve him on the pick and roll. The guards too often just dribble around and do nothing but runt the clock down
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11/9/2006  9:42 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:

First of all, lets deal with reality here: Bynum may still be a bust, Kwame Brown showed signs of dominance and what is he now? Olowakandi looked ready to break out, what is he now? We have alot of time before we can definitively say anything about Bynum other than he is a project who has shown flashes over something special, and hes young and has lots of time to prove it. Thats it.

As far as drafting, its not as important that you missed x great player, as it is that you at least got a good player where you picked.

And as of yet, even with Frye slumping, Bynum has has to catch up to what Frye showed last year for a long stretch of the season. Thats a fact lke it or not.

Forget Bynum, right now Frye has to prove that he isnt the second coming of Brian Cook. If you take away a small stretch of games last year, thats all he has shown--a 6-10 soft perimeter player. Bynum had the same game as Curry last night. I watched both, and it was the same thing with both guys. Immediate and constant foul trouble. Curry along with Q have been the two Knicks that have really shown radical improvement But the way Curry plays he will have days like this. Im sure Bynum just turning 19 isnt going to be 20-15-3 every night. And to be honest, Bynum has shown more SKILLS than Frye has in the nBA in his small sample. Frye hs shown me a jumpshot---once teams moved up on him, hes been a shell of his few good games. Frye has shown he is soft mentally and physically.
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