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VDesai
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11/2/2006  9:36 AM
Someone has to get him the ball. Curry was working hard and was active. That was about as fiery and as passionate as I've seen him. He was hitting the offensive glass and got back on D and made some big blocks. He had the right attitude yesterday.
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mythfaze
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11/2/2006  9:37 AM
Posted by VDesai:

Someone has to get him the ball. Curry was working hard and was active. That was about as fiery and as passionate as I've seen him. He was hitting the offensive glass and got back on D and made some big blocks. He had the right attitude yesterday.

He had a key block down the stretch... same with Lee. Was awesome to watch... not used to the Knicks ever blocking anything.
VDesai
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11/2/2006  9:38 AM
BTW, I don't know how great of an idea it is to keep forcing it to him, especially when he's not in position. It's how he gets all the quick fouls. He of course needs to learn about positioning and learn to get the ball in better spots through out the game.
Bippity10
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11/2/2006  9:54 AM
Posted by VDesai:

BTW, I don't know how great of an idea it is to keep forcing it to him, especially when he's not in position. It's how he gets all the quick fouls. He of course needs to learn about positioning and learn to get the ball in better spots through out the game.

As a PG you have to recognize this. If Curry is struggling to get position but is working hard and dominating you can't miss him when he does get position. that's why I'm wary of a guard dominated offense. Curry needs the ball when he gets position. We can't have him wasting energy fighting for position and then not getting the ball when he gets it. That's how you lose him down the stretch. The guy played well last night. He did get tired but he played well. No problem with him getting tired after a couple over times.
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TMS
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11/2/2006  9:55 AM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by TMS:

there's no player in the league that ever SHOULD get 25 & 18 in a game... that would be a phenomenal game for anyone regardless of the team you're playing against.

i thought Curry played very well last night... 17 / 14 / 3 is a huge improvement for him... he could have easily put up more shots if they kept feeding him the ball, i agree, so w/the point totals i can say you have a point, but the rebounds were fine & i can't expect him to maintain the same level of energy throughout the game especially when you're going into a 3rd OT session.



I don't agree. When you have as many points and rebounds as Curry did early in the game, I think it makes sense for him to add to that, maybe not at the same rate, but not to cease production totally.

oohah


u have to realize that many elite bigmen start out games the same way & tail off towards the end... u can't expect guys to carry out the same exact rate of production throughout the course of a 48 minutes game, much less carry that into 3 OT sessions on top... it's not physically possible unless u'r an athletic stamina freak like Jordan or simply in a different class over your competition physically like Wilt was... that's like holding players to per 48 minute stat averages... basketball is a game of momentum & manytimes u can score in bunches when your shot is on & you're feeling good... then the momentum shifts & you take a breather & your production might tail off a bit... over the course of the game, Curry's effort level was just fine by my observations however... definitely a noticeable difference even in his demeanor aggressively trying to block shots & rebounding that i didn't see last season.

Curry's teammates not feeding him the ball has nothing to do w/his tailing off on rebounds in the 2nd half... it's his conditioning, which he needs to work on... but overall i can't see how anyone can possibly expect him to get 25 & 18 in any game.
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VDesai
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11/2/2006  9:58 AM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by VDesai:

BTW, I don't know how great of an idea it is to keep forcing it to him, especially when he's not in position. It's how he gets all the quick fouls. He of course needs to learn about positioning and learn to get the ball in better spots through out the game.

As a PG you have to recognize this. If Curry is struggling to get position but is working hard and dominating you can't miss him when he does get position. that's why I'm wary of a guard dominated offense. Curry needs the ball when he gets position. We can't have him wasting energy fighting for position and then not getting the ball when he gets it. That's how you lose him down the stretch. The guy played well last night. He did get tired but he played well. No problem with him getting tired after a couple over times.

Yep...and Marbury is not the greatest guy at feeding the post (he hasn't had to do it in years), though I thought he played great last night and did a good job of getting Curry the ball in the first half. Craw does a pretty good job, but was mainly concerned with his own O last night.
Bippity10
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11/2/2006  10:02 AM
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by VDesai:

BTW, I don't know how great of an idea it is to keep forcing it to him, especially when he's not in position. It's how he gets all the quick fouls. He of course needs to learn about positioning and learn to get the ball in better spots through out the game.

As a PG you have to recognize this. If Curry is struggling to get position but is working hard and dominating you can't miss him when he does get position. that's why I'm wary of a guard dominated offense. Curry needs the ball when he gets position. We can't have him wasting energy fighting for position and then not getting the ball when he gets it. That's how you lose him down the stretch. The guy played well last night. He did get tired but he played well. No problem with him getting tired after a couple over times.

Yep...and Marbury is not the greatest guy at feeding the post (he hasn't had to do it in years), though I thought he played great last night and did a good job of getting Curry the ball in the first half. Craw does a pretty good job, but was mainly concerned with his own O last night.

I agree with you. I think Isiah wants the ball to go into Curry consistently but I think our guards are so used to be allowed to get their own shots whenever they want for so long that often times they forget about the post. When the game is on the line you need to go to the guy that shoots 60% from the field instead of forcing it one on one. But that's part of the learning process that hopefully this team is being taught. That's part of being a good team. Learning who to get the ball to and when. Instead of worrying about whether a systems is desinged for you to be successful individually.
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VDesai
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11/2/2006  10:04 AM
I think one of the most efficient ways of putting the ball in Curry's hands is actually giving to David Lee and letting him break down defenders in the lane- he often seems to get Curry good looks right next to the basket.
oohah
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11/2/2006  10:04 AM
u have to realize that many elite bigmen start out games the same way & tail off towards the end... u can't expect guys to carry out the same exact rate of production throughout the course of a 48 minutes game, much less carry that into 3 OT sessions on top... it's not physically possible unless u'r an athletic stamina freak like Jordan or simply in a different class over your competition physically like Wilt was... that's like holding players to per 48 minute stat averages... basketball is a game of momentum & manytimes u can score in bunches when your shot is on & you're feeling good... then the momentum shifts & you take a breather & your production might tail off a bit... over the course of the game, Curry's effort level was just fine by my observations however... definitely a noticeable difference even in his demeanor aggressively trying to block shots & rebounding that i didn't see last season.

I said this exact thing in the quote you are responding to: "I think it makes sense for him to add to that, maybe not at the same rate, but not to cease production totally."

I still say it makes sense ofr him to add to that. After his torrid start, he disappeared except for the one big block.

Please tell me if I am crazy: If a players is having a great game, is it wrong for me to expect him to have a great game, or should I expect him to fall off the map i the second half?

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Bippity10
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11/2/2006  10:15 AM
Posted by oohah:
u have to realize that many elite bigmen start out games the same way & tail off towards the end... u can't expect guys to carry out the same exact rate of production throughout the course of a 48 minutes game, much less carry that into 3 OT sessions on top... it's not physically possible unless u'r an athletic stamina freak like Jordan or simply in a different class over your competition physically like Wilt was... that's like holding players to per 48 minute stat averages... basketball is a game of momentum & manytimes u can score in bunches when your shot is on & you're feeling good... then the momentum shifts & you take a breather & your production might tail off a bit... over the course of the game, Curry's effort level was just fine by my observations however... definitely a noticeable difference even in his demeanor aggressively trying to block shots & rebounding that i didn't see last season.

I said this exact thing in the quote you are responding to: "I think it makes sense for him to add to that, maybe not at the same rate, but not to cease production totally."

I still say it makes sense ofr him to add to that. After his torrid start, he disappeared except for the one big block.

Please tell me if I am crazy: If a players is having a great game, is it wrong for me to expect him to have a great game, or should I expect him to fall off the map i the second half?

oohah

I think it is wrong of you. If he is a Knick you should praise and worship him no matter what he does. I am personally shocked and appalled for your lack of faith in the Knicks. Next time he has a big game I don't want to see you hopping back on the bandwagon saying how great he is. Why don't you go root for Nenad kristc you Net fan
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TMS
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11/2/2006  10:26 AM
Posted by oohah:
u have to realize that many elite bigmen start out games the same way & tail off towards the end... u can't expect guys to carry out the same exact rate of production throughout the course of a 48 minutes game, much less carry that into 3 OT sessions on top... it's not physically possible unless u'r an athletic stamina freak like Jordan or simply in a different class over your competition physically like Wilt was... that's like holding players to per 48 minute stat averages... basketball is a game of momentum & manytimes u can score in bunches when your shot is on & you're feeling good... then the momentum shifts & you take a breather & your production might tail off a bit... over the course of the game, Curry's effort level was just fine by my observations however... definitely a noticeable difference even in his demeanor aggressively trying to block shots & rebounding that i didn't see last season.

I said this exact thing in the quote you are responding to: "I think it makes sense for him to add to that, maybe not at the same rate, but not to cease production totally."

I still say it makes sense ofr him to add to that. After his torrid start, he disappeared except for the one big block.

Please tell me if I am crazy: If a players is having a great game, is it wrong for me to expect him to have a great game, or should I expect him to fall off the map i the second half?

oohah


at the half he was at about 12 / 10 / 1... i believe in the second half & OT he had 5 / 4 / 2... that's significantly less production but still production nonetheless... he didn't stop playing in the 2nd half like you're making it out to be... the flow of the game got away from him, which was due largely to the Knick guards not getting him the ball down low... how can u possibly fault Curry for that? he played 40 minutes & went 8 for 13 from the field (61%) as well as getting some big blocked shots... what more do you want?
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nixluva
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11/2/2006  10:33 AM
Just to make it a bit more clear, one of the things that's missing from the offense is having 6-11 Jared out there. He is actually another guy who in this offense is the point forward on the floor. The usual progression in this offense is to get the ball to Jared who then can make the pass to either Curry or a cutting guard after that guard passes him the ball. We don't have him so that takes one aspect of the game away.

As far as Curry is concerned. He didn't so much run out of gas as the Knicks guards just didn't feel comfortable making the over the top pass with the Griz Fronting Curry everytime and another Griz player cheating over slightly in anticipation of the lob pass. On the court the guards can see this and it gave them pause. Isiah will look at that in the films and point out to them another way of dealing with teams fronting Curry. I think we need to allow the normal process in the NBA to happen. You play games. Teams use different things against you and then you counter that in practice after the film sessions.
izybx
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11/2/2006  10:36 AM
The guards need to get him the ball. Many times the ball was swung to his side of the floor, with Curry calling for the ball. They would just take one look at him, see that he was being fronted, and then go to the second option. If Memphis is good at getting the ball inside despite the post player being fronted, then why arent we?

Def something to work on in practice.

But i thought Curry played very good, and if he can keep it up on a regular basis I will be more than happy.

He also got some bs fouls last night, the on where he caught the ball and turned around, barely touching Miller who was already halfway to the floor in a flop was a terrible call. Those refs were awful yesterday.
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oohah
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11/2/2006  10:37 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by oohah:
u have to realize that many elite bigmen start out games the same way & tail off towards the end... u can't expect guys to carry out the same exact rate of production throughout the course of a 48 minutes game, much less carry that into 3 OT sessions on top... it's not physically possible unless u'r an athletic stamina freak like Jordan or simply in a different class over your competition physically like Wilt was... that's like holding players to per 48 minute stat averages... basketball is a game of momentum & manytimes u can score in bunches when your shot is on & you're feeling good... then the momentum shifts & you take a breather & your production might tail off a bit... over the course of the game, Curry's effort level was just fine by my observations however... definitely a noticeable difference even in his demeanor aggressively trying to block shots & rebounding that i didn't see last season.

I said this exact thing in the quote you are responding to: "I think it makes sense for him to add to that, maybe not at the same rate, but not to cease production totally."

I still say it makes sense ofr him to add to that. After his torrid start, he disappeared except for the one big block.

Please tell me if I am crazy: If a players is having a great game, is it wrong for me to expect him to have a great game, or should I expect him to fall off the map i the second half?

oohah


at the half he was at about 12 / 10 / 1... i believe in the second half & OT he had 5 / 4 / 2... that's significantly less production but still production nonetheless... he didn't stop playing in the 2nd half like you're making it out to be... the flow of the game got away from him, which was due largely to the Knick guards not getting him the ball down low... how can u possibly fault Curry for that? he played 40 minutes & went 8 for 13 from the field (61%) as well as getting some big blocked shots... what more do you want?

First half 24 minutes. Second half 39 minutes. His production fell off tremendously. Furthermore most of his second half production occured right at the begining of the half.

Check out the play-by-play here if you don't think I am being accurate:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=261101029


Please don't make it seem as if I am trashing Curry or Lamenting his performance. I just want to see him finish what he started, same like every other player, same with the team as a whole. If Curry has a bad game, I won't jump all over him. I just want to see him follow through.

oohah
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bobs3304
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11/2/2006  10:45 AM
guys cmon, even im an avid curry hater, and he played GREAT.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
TMS
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11/2/2006  10:46 AM
u said he should've put up 25 & 18 based on his 1st half performance... that's unreasonable standards you're holding him to... now ur saying u don't expect him to produce at the same rate throughout the game... so what are u saying? he had a torrid 1st half, & slowed down the rest of the game... that happens in basketball to the best of bigmen, not just w/Curry... there's going to be games where he'll be nonexistent in the 1st half & go buckwild in the 2nd too... i'm interested in the overall result... he was dominant in last night's game when he got the ball down low & when the refs weren't calling him for BS fouls... i want to see him finish games strong too, but after a game like he had last night there's not 1 criticism i'd give the guy... he could have scored more if the guards would have kept feeding him the ball... that's nothing he did wrong in that regard.
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oohah
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11/2/2006  10:56 AM
Posted by TMS:

u said he should've put up 25 & 18 based on his 1st half performance... that's unreasonable standards you're holding him to... now ur saying u don't expect him to produce at the same rate throughout the game... so what are u saying? he had a torrid 1st half, & slowed down the rest of the game... that happens in basketball to the best of bigmen, not just w/Curry... there's going to be games where he'll be nonexistent in the 1st half & go buckwild in the 2nd too... i'm interested in the overall result... he was dominant in last night's game when he got the ball down low & when the refs weren't calling him for BS fouls... i want to see him finish games strong too, but after a game like he had last night there's not 1 criticism i'd give the guy... he could have scored more if the guards would have kept feeding him the ball... that's nothing he did wrong in that regard.

Here is what I am saying, when you have 12/10 in the first half, it is not unreasonable for him to produce another 10-13 points and get another 6 rebounds over the next half of the game, which is 15 minutes longer than the first half. Please don't get married to the 25/18 number, my point is his production fell off dramatically. You don't have to take my word for it, look at the play-by-play.

Sure that happens to many players, but this is Eddies MO, and it is what holds him back from being the star we all hope he will be.

Certainly he will have games where he has great halves, then not so great halves. I hope to see more of him playing about as well in both halves. Is that nuts?

Maybe the guards had a hand in it. What I saw was him losing his aggressiveness. He did not rack up the points and rebounds from the post in the first half he did it hustling and running the floor. Like I wrote before, I would rather see him foul out playing aggressive, than being timid and watching him disappear. Is that nuts?

oohah





[Edited by - oohah on 02-11-2006 10:57 AM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
SugarRayRichardson
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11/2/2006  11:01 AM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by TMS:

u said he should've put up 25 & 18 based on his 1st half performance... that's unreasonable standards you're holding him to... now ur saying u don't expect him to produce at the same rate throughout the game... so what are u saying? he had a torrid 1st half, & slowed down the rest of the game... that happens in basketball to the best of bigmen, not just w/Curry... there's going to be games where he'll be nonexistent in the 1st half & go buckwild in the 2nd too... i'm interested in the overall result... he was dominant in last night's game when he got the ball down low & when the refs weren't calling him for BS fouls... i want to see him finish games strong too, but after a game like he had last night there's not 1 criticism i'd give the guy... he could have scored more if the guards would have kept feeding him the ball... that's nothing he did wrong in that regard.
Here is what I am saying, when you have 12/10 in the first half, it is not unreasonable for him to produce another 10-13 points and get another 6 rebounds over the next half of the game, which is 15 minutes longer than the first half.
[Edited by - oohah on 02-11-2006 10:57 AM]


I once saw Tmac score 13 points in 33 seconds. If he can do that its not unreasonable to expect Tmac to score 858 points in 33 minutes is it? LOL :)
I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
oohah
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11/2/2006  11:04 AM
I once saw Tmac score 13 points in 33 seconds. If he can do that its not unreasonable to expect Tmac to score 858 points in 33 minutes is it? LOL :)

Now that's what I call a valid comparison!

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
TheGame
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11/2/2006  11:13 AM
I think Curry had a good game. IMO the reason he disappeared at the end was because of two reasons: 1) the offensive fouls (he had like 2 quick fouls in a row that forced him to the bench and that was pretty much it for him; and 2) the guards did not consistently get him the ball. The team really needs to work on floor spacing and passing into and out of the post and Curry still needs to work on not fouling (although some of the calls on him were questionable IMO). Overall, this game was encouraging. If he plays like this every game, we will be good this year. His weak side defense was good. He picked it up when it mattered and had some good blocks. He still needs to get better, but at least it looks like he is trying to play defense and is moving his feet.
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