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Make a Plan For the Knicks (Hopefully, if it's good -- Isiah will steal it from you!)

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oohah
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10/30/2006 12:04 AM

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What plan did Isiah steal from anyone to date?

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!

AUTOADVERT

djsunyc
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10/30/2006 12:05 AM

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Spurs re-sign F Malik Rose to multi-year deal
July 26, 2002

SAN ANTONIO (Ticker) -- Continuing the trend of retaining their own players, the San Antonio Spurs locked up forward Malik Rose to a multi-year deal on Friday.

Terms were not disclosed, but the San Antonio Express-News reported Friday that Rose received a seven-year contract worth $42 million with an opt-out clause after the 2006-07 season.

Rose's agent, Lon Babby, apparently patterned the contract after the seven-year, $41 million deal he negotiated for Toronto Raptors forward Jerome Williams last summer.

Rose, 27, is the third free agent and probably the most important to re-sign with the Spurs, following forwards Bruce Bowen and Danny Ferry.

Although undersized at 6-7, Rose uses his 255-pound frame effectively inside and is San Antonio's top reserve. With center David Robinson retiring after the 2002-03 season and NBA Most Valuable Player Tim Duncan entering the last year of his contract, the Spurs understood Rose's value to the team.

Coming off the best season of his six-year career, Rose averaged 9.4 points and 6.0 rebounds in 21 minutes while playing all 82 games. In the playoffs, Rose saw increased playing time since Robinson was bothered by back problems and averaged 12.9 points and 7.9 rebounds.

Originally selected by Charlotte in the second round of the 1996 draft, Rose spent his rookie season with the Hornets before signing with the Spurs in September 1997. He has career averages of 6.3 points and 4.3 rebounds in 367 games.

7 year deal signed in the summer of 2002

year 1 - 02/03
year 2 - 03/04
year 3 - 04/05
year 4 - 05/06
year 5 - 06/07
year 6 - 07/08
year 7 - 08/09 (player option which he will not exercise)

[Edited by - djsunyc on 10-30-2006 12:07 AM]

nyk4ever
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10/30/2006 12:09 AM

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Posted by oohah:

What plan did Isiah steal from anyone to date?

oohah

I think he stole his current plan from Glen Grunwald. Oh crap, now he's with the Knicks too!

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander

djsunyc
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10/30/2006 12:09 AM

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Posted by kam77:

Where does it say Malik Rose has four more years left on his contract, and who is spewing this? And why?

kam, i mistyped the year. it was four full years after isiah traded for him.

djsunyc
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10/30/2006 12:14 AM

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Posted by oohah:

What plan did Isiah steal from anyone to date?

oohah

isiah inherited a very unique situation. a team that had no chance to get under the cap for another 3 years from when he was hired. isiah decided which way he was going to proceed and so far, it has failed. this situation required patience and isiah is more of a splash guy. a control freak...to the point where everything was removed that existed before. including behind the scenes staff. he said the team had a "virus" and he was going to clean it up. he has wasted alot of money, none of which really matters for the years 04-06 (when he would be over the cap regardless). but the years of 07-10 are all his doing. so you can say, wow, $60 mil is coming off the cap this year...well, it would've came off the cap last year and it would have put us under. $60 mil off this year, and we're still over...and still without a franchise player.

EnySpree
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10/30/2006 12:15 AM

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As far as what I see on the court, frye doesn't fit these knicks. We all want a tough team and frye hasn't shown he will mix it up. If anthing he has displayed lots of puss.

I also would like to see marbs traded. I think Francis and craw work better together. Nate has huge heart and has played great and under control. I wanna see Nate more than marbs.

Everyone else I don't mind holding on to.

Big question. What can the knicks get for frye and marbs!?!?

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djsunyc
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10/30/2006 12:18 AM

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Posted by EnySpree:

As far as what I see on the court, frye doesn't fit these knicks. We all want a tough team and frye hasn't shown he will mix it up. If anthing he has displayed lots of puss.

I also would like to see marbs traded. I think Francis and craw work better together. Nate has huge heart and has played great and under control. I wanna see Nate more than marbs.

Everyone else I don't mind holding on to.

Big question. What can the knicks get for frye and marbs!?!?

well you would have to package frye to get rid of marbs...which may be the only way to do it. it's better just to waive him. somebody will pick him up and whatever contract he signs, that money does come off our cap and saves a few dollars (albeit very insignificant).

waive marbs and then package frye with a better contract and you will get a better player.

EnySpree
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10/30/2006 12:19 AM

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TheGame
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10/30/2006 12:19 AM

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At this point, the plan should be as Bush used to say, "We should stay the course." We really need to get a better idea of what this team can and cannot do and what our 1st and 2nd year players can and cannot do. This year should be about winning as many games as possible and evaluating our players and the team as a whole. As far as moves, I would consider the following:

1) Unless the Francis/Marbury backcourt is working better than expected, the first goal is to trade one of these guys off the team. It will probably have to be Francis because he makes less (even though he has shown more heart lately than what Marbury has been showing). Either trade him for an expiring contract and picks (i.e. Eddie Jones and a #1 pick in 2007) or you trade him for a more complete shooting guard (i.e. Ray Allen). The first option would be to get an expiring contract but that might not be possible.

2) The second issue is that we need interior defense. We need to evaluate whether Curry and Frye can improve in this area or whether we need to trade one of them to get an interior defender. In any trade, we should also try to get a first round pick but hopefully the rotation of Frye, Curry, and Lee will develop into a competent defensive unit.

3) The next problem is that we need a pass-first PG. Nate and Marbury are not great setup points (although Marbury is decent in a pick and roll situation). We need to draft or trade for a young pass-first point that can play defense (i.e. an Earl Watson type).

4) I would use Malik Rose's contract next year in a trade for a player that fills one of our holes or gets us a first round pick without taking on too much additional salary (if the player fits a need).

5) We then just need to wait. Let our contracts drop off the books or hope that a good trade opens up. If we accumulate draft picks and act prudently, we should be in a position to get a big-name player in 2009 through a sign and trade at least. But I don't think we can get under the salery cap by any significant amount. Once Marbury's deal expires, we will have to resign Frye, Lee, and Nate (assuming they are still on the team) and we will still have Curry and Crawford as well as the other contracts we pick up through the drafts. I just don't see how this team is going to be able to use salary cap space as a means of rebuilding. We will have to take the strategy of getting good players making a reasonable or below market salary and work out good trades. IT's problem is that he has been accumulating players that are overpaid due to flaws in their game, which makes them virtually impossible to trade.

Trust the Process

eViL
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10/30/2006 12:20 AM

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Posted by oohah:

What plan did Isiah steal from anyone to date?

oohah

I wasn't implying that he had already stolen anyone's plans. I was just joking that maybe if someone here had a good idea that it would be stolen and we'd all benefit -- thems was jokes.

Though some people say that Layden had the Marbury deal lined up, but wasn't as eager to pull the trigger as Isiah was. Who knows? If Isiah stole a plan from Layden, that was the wrong cat to be stealing from. That's like Eddy Curry, in an effort to get in shape, stealing Jerome James' workout regimen.

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bobs3304
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10/30/2006 12:22 AM

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frye is just as good as eddy and only in his 2nd year.

i'd sure as heck rather have frye at this point than eddy, specially with all those damm turnover.

DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.

EnySpree
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10/30/2006 12:23 AM

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eViL
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10/30/2006 12:31 AM

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Player			2007/08		2008/09		2009/10		2010/11
Stephon Marbury		$20,109,375 	$21,937,500 	$0 		$0 			
Steve Francis		$16,440,000 	$17,180,000 	$0 		$0 			
Eddy Curry		$8,988,213 	$9,887,035 	$10,875,738 	$0 				
Quentin Richardson	$8,825,750 	$9,352,500 	$0 		$0 				
Jamal Crawford		$7,920,000 	$8,640,000 	$9,360,000 	$10,080,000 				
Malik Rose		$7,101,250 	$7,953,400 	$0      	$0 		 		
Jerome James		$5,800,000 	$6,200,000 	$6,600,000 	$0 				
Jared Jeffries		$5,736,500 	$6,310,150 	$6,941,165 	$7,635,282 				
Channing Frye		$2,487,240 	$3,163,769 	$4,264,760 	$0 				
Nate Robinson		$1,268,160 	$2,020,178 	$2,911,077 	$0 				
Renaldo Balkman		$1,234,800 	$1,320,960 	$2,036,920 	$2,918,906 				
David Lee		$990,600 	$1,788,033 	$2,682,049 	$0 				
Mardy Collins		$932,760 	$997,800 	$1,801,029 	$2,701,543 				
TOTALS:			$87,834,648 	$96,751,325 	$47,472,738  	$23,335,731

Looking at these numbers (with Malik's contract correctly factored) -- I would do anything in my power to get Denver to take Crawford for Najera and Hodge. I'd even throw in a protected number one pick. Both those guys will expire before 09/10. That would put us at $38M (well under whatever the cap will be) with 9 current players under contract and probably a few first round picks over the next couple of years. We'd be in excellent position to snatch a franchise player and still re-sign Frye, Lee and Nate.

check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo

djsunyc
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10/30/2006 12:34 AM

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this may draw some ire but we actually would've been in a better situation down the road of orlando took crawford in the deal instead of penny. francis is done in 3 years where crawford has 5.

oohah
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10/30/2006 12:34 AM

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Posted by eViL:
Posted by oohah:

What plan did Isiah steal from anyone to date?

oohah

I wasn't implying that he had already stolen anyone's plans. I was just joking that maybe if someone here had a good idea that it would be stolen and we'd all benefit -- thems was jokes.

Though some people say that Layden had the Marbury deal lined up, but wasn't as eager to pull the trigger as Isiah was. Who knows? If Isiah stole a plan from Layden, that was the wrong cat to be stealing from. That's like Eddy Curry, in an effort to get in shape, stealing Jerome James' workout regimen.

The reason I asked is because I have seen some guys saying that Isiah is ripping off LB's plans, mainly by pointing to Balkman (Most of these are the same guys ripping the Balkman pick.), or picking up Jeffries.

I think he would have picked up Jeffries anyway, and so what if LB did like him? (I am not saying that you are saying this.) I heard LB liked LeBron too, I guess if IT picks him up he is stealing LB's notes! (Not saying that you are saying this)

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!

Rich
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10/30/2006 12:36 AM

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Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by Rich:

Malik's contract expires next season:

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm

According to RealGM, Maliks contract expires after the 08/09 season.
http://www3.realgm.com/src_tradechecker/2/

edit: link is bad but if you go there and select the Knicks, you'll see.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 10-29-2006 11:52 PM]

How do we know which site is accurate?

eViL
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10/30/2006 12:54 AM

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Posted by oohah:
Posted by eViL:
Posted by oohah:

What plan did Isiah steal from anyone to date?

oohah

I wasn't implying that he had already stolen anyone's plans. I was just joking that maybe if someone here had a good idea that it would be stolen and we'd all benefit -- thems was jokes.

Though some people say that Layden had the Marbury deal lined up, but wasn't as eager to pull the trigger as Isiah was. Who knows? If Isiah stole a plan from Layden, that was the wrong cat to be stealing from. That's like Eddy Curry, in an effort to get in shape, stealing Jerome James' workout regimen.

The reason I asked is because I have seen some guys saying that Isiah is ripping off LB's plans, mainly by pointing to Balkman (Most of these are the same guys ripping the Balkman pick.), or picking up Jeffries.

I think he would have picked up Jeffries anyway, and so what if LB did like him? (I am not saying that you are saying this.) I heard LB liked LeBron too, I guess if IT picks him up he is stealing LB's notes! (Not saying that you are saying this)

oohah

Nah, I'm trying not to bring LB up on this board, but it's probably not a mere coincidence that some of his alleged suggestions are coming to fruition. Anyone with a basketball mind (cough, Bippity, cough) knew that there would be too many problems with Jalen and Mo Taylor riding the pine behind the rooks. So it's not like LB had some patented plan that no one else could think of. Though, the Knicks did mention LB's demands that they cut many of the players as one reason they thought he was be subordinate. Now, months later, they have cut many of the players he wanted cut. It will be interesting if the Knicks current moves will factor into Stern's decision. But that's for another thread.

As far as this thread goes -- what's your plan?

check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo

nyk4ever
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10/30/2006 12:54 AM

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Rich, DJ posted this article earlier, which shows that RealGM is right.

Posted by djsunyc:
Spurs re-sign F Malik Rose to multi-year deal
July 26, 2002

SAN ANTONIO (Ticker) -- Continuing the trend of retaining their own players, the San Antonio Spurs locked up forward Malik Rose to a multi-year deal on Friday.

Terms were not disclosed, but the San Antonio Express-News reported Friday that Rose received a seven-year contract worth $42 million with an opt-out clause after the 2006-07 season.

Rose's agent, Lon Babby, apparently patterned the contract after the seven-year, $41 million deal he negotiated for Toronto Raptors forward Jerome Williams last summer.

Rose, 27, is the third free agent and probably the most important to re-sign with the Spurs, following forwards Bruce Bowen and Danny Ferry.

Although undersized at 6-7, Rose uses his 255-pound frame effectively inside and is San Antonio's top reserve. With center David Robinson retiring after the 2002-03 season and NBA Most Valuable Player Tim Duncan entering the last year of his contract, the Spurs understood Rose's value to the team.

Coming off the best season of his six-year career, Rose averaged 9.4 points and 6.0 rebounds in 21 minutes while playing all 82 games. In the playoffs, Rose saw increased playing time since Robinson was bothered by back problems and averaged 12.9 points and 7.9 rebounds.

Originally selected by Charlotte in the second round of the 1996 draft, Rose spent his rookie season with the Hornets before signing with the Spurs in September 1997. He has career averages of 6.3 points and 4.3 rebounds in 367 games.

7 year deal signed in the summer of 2002

year 1 - 02/03
year 2 - 03/04
year 3 - 04/05
year 4 - 05/06
year 5 - 06/07
year 6 - 07/08
year 7 - 08/09 (player option which he will not exercise)

[Edited by - djsunyc on 10-30-2006 12:07 AM]

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander

eViL
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10/30/2006 12:54 AM

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Posted by Rich:

How do we know which site is accurate?

We listen to DJ and nyk4ever

[Edited by - eViL on 10-30-2006 12:55 AM]

check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo

oohah
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10/30/2006 1:36 AM

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As far as this thread goes -- what's your plan?

I don't really know yet, but here is something I have been hoping for that I have posted a couple of times:

It is my understanding that Ray Allen is on the outs with Seattle. If Francis is featured and can play more games like he did the other night, that open the door for a Franchise for Allen trade, with the Knicks probably having to throw in some more value (JC?).

I think Ray Allen would fit in perfectly with the uptempo style and would give a us a bonafide sniper--better from long range than Houston was--an athlete, and a decent character. Allen had his best season last year and I think he has at least 3 high-level seasons left.

My other plan is this: Make Eddie Curry get all of his points off of rebounds and cutting to the basket. It may take some time but it will eliminate his game-stopping while he figures out what to do and cut his turnovers down too while featuring his ability to overwhelm and dunk on anyone around the basket.

EDIT: It will also help eliminate some of his god-forsaken bolwing people over and getting offensive fouls.

My third plan is this: Feature Frye in the front court. The kid can flat out score and I think he will make things happen--as opposed to EC stagnation possessions.

oohah

[Edited by - oohah on 30-10-2006 01:53 AM]

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!

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