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What's all this Trade Frye/ Frye is the weak link crap?
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holfresh
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10/29/2006  2:30 PM
I think a lot of it has to do with most posters here wants to see David Lee start and get most of the minutes...I think he is a fan favorite and people see Frye a guy who stands in his way of getting major minutes on this team...I like both guys but I'm a bit more realistic...Frye has a huge upside and Lee will be a roll player...Hopefully both will be successful here but Frye needs the playing time for us to see what he can be....No one ever thought Karl Malone would be the player he became until he got the playing time...

I also thought it was about rebuilding at least on this board but it seem like it's not the case...Well in that case lets go out and get KMart...He would be a great fit at the position with toughness...Only thing is we would continue the Starphuck trend and never get out of salary hell...This is exactly why people say you can't rebuild in New York...

Everyone cries about building with youth but they want to win now...What do they think rebuilding with youth means...Growing pains that what it means!!!...Just make sure you have the talent that will make it worthwhile in the end....Frye has the talent to make it worthwhile...So just sit back and watch this flower blossom...My bet is you won't be disappointed...



[Edited by - holfresh on 10-29-2006 2:32 PM]
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nyk4ever
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10/29/2006  2:51 PM
Posted by holfresh:

I think a lot of it has to do with most posters here wants to see David Lee start and get most of the minutes...I think he is a fan favorite and people see Frye a guy who stands in his way of getting major minutes on this team...I like both guys but I'm a bit more realistic...Frye has a huge upside and Lee will be a roll player...Hopefully both will be successful here but Frye needs the playing time for us to see what he can be....No one ever thought Karl Malone would be the player he became until he got the playing time...
Why is Frye the only player allowed to blossom, just because you like him better? Lee was a first rounder as well and so far he does more things better than Frye. That's not playing fan favorites, thats playing basketball.

I also thought it was about rebuilding at least on this board but it seem like it's not the case...Well in that case lets go out and get KMart...He would be a great fit at the position with toughness...Only thing is we would continue the Starphuck trend and never get out of salary hell...This is exactly why people say you can't rebuild in New York...
It's not rebuilding when you trade 1 lottery pick and 1 potential lottery pick in back to back years.
Everyone cries about building with youth but they want to win now...What do they think rebuilding with youth means...Growing pains that what it means!!!...Just make sure you have the talent that will make it worthwhile in the end....Frye has the talent to make it worthwhile...So just sit back and watch this flower blossom...My bet is you won't be disappointed...
[Edited by - holfresh on 10-29-2006 2:32 PM]

Again, this isn't rebuilding this year. Incase you didnt notice, your buddy Isiah Thomas has one year to "turn this ship around." For us to sit here and pretend to think he's not going to do everything possible so he keeps his job would be stupid and pointless. Isiah is going to be playing the lineups that give him the best chance to keep his job and right now, Lee starting gives him and more importantly the KNICKS the best chance to win because what he is best at the starting lineup doesn't have. I understand Frye has more natural talent than Lee but he has yet to show anything but a knack for hitting wide-open jump shots.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
holfresh
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10/29/2006  3:00 PM

Buddapaw, I arrest my case(see the above post)...Didn't take long for that fish to bite the line....
nyk4ever
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10/29/2006  3:19 PM
Posted by holfresh:


Buddapaw, I arrest my case(see the above post)...Didn't take long for that fish to bite the line....


Ahem, go back and look at your posts in the Magic thread in where you couldn't have been more wrong. As well as the Pacers. "I thought you knew this game"

Thats your response? Instead of arguing your points, you 'rest' your case? That's sad.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 10-29-2006 3:22 PM]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
martin
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10/29/2006  3:56 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:


Buddapaw, I arrest my case(see the above post)...Didn't take long for that fish to bite the line....


Ahem, go back and look at your posts in the Magic thread in where you couldn't have been more wrong. As well as the Pacers. "I thought you knew this game"

Thats your response? Instead of arguing your points, you 'rest' your case? That's sad.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 10-29-2006 3:22 PM]

no, he arrested his case, which is kinda like a self-b!tchslap.
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fishmike
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10/29/2006  4:10 PM
its not about Curry and Frye... its about Frye and Frye. He cant guard 4's. He's not some kid we are waiting to develop. He's a 4 year CBB player, who played center only in CBB, and is failing to make a position change.

Whats building for the future got to do with trading him? If we traded him I would look to get a young stud back.

Patience? I'm not saying we have to trade him now. The Knicks neednt have a timetable for Frye. But their coack/gm is looking at a very bad start if they keep running this guy out at PF
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
holfresh
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10/29/2006  4:13 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:


Buddapaw, I arrest my case(see the above post)...Didn't take long for that fish to bite the line....


Ahem, go back and look at your posts in the Magic thread in where you couldn't have been more wrong. As well as the Pacers. "I thought you knew this game"

Thats your response? Instead of arguing your points, you 'rest' your case? That's sad.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 10-29-2006 3:22 PM]

no, he arrested his case, which is kinda like a self-b!tchslap.

What's the point of arguing when he agreed with my point that Frye is the better player...He admitted Frye had more talent but Lee should start....Frye had an outstanding rookie season and was in the running for rook of the year for a good part of the season...Yet "Knick Fans" here think that Lee should start..Do you think there is anything I can say to change their minds...Do you not think the nyk4ver and I have been down this road before and here we are again...What can I say...

For your guide ny4ever, the entire basketball world is picking Orlando to have a huge season...Just like the entire globe is picked the Miami Dolphins to have a great season this year...I can't wait for this season to unfold...Also it is your opinion that Orlando will do well...Just like it's my opinion they will be a so so team...We will figure who is right by midseason... Not sure why you are claiming you are right at this moment but doesn't surprise me that you think you know it all...
nyk4ever
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10/29/2006  4:22 PM
Posted by holfresh:


For your guide ny4ever, the entire basketball world is picking Orlando to have a huge season...Just like the entire globe is picked the Miami Dolphins to have a great season this year...I can't wait for this season to unfold...Also it is your opinion that Orlando will do well...Just like it's my opinion they will be a so so team...We will figure who is right by midseason... Not sure why you are claiming you are right at this moment but doesn't surprise me that you think you know it all...


Apparently you have amnesia. We were not arguing about the Magic as a team, I was arguing with you about your horrid scouting reports of Dwight Howard and Jameer Nelson, you couldn't have been more wrong with either one of them.

Secondly, you are calling me someone who "claims to know it all?"
from the thread "I've been a Knick fan for 33 years thread"
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/post.asp?method=Edit&r=297757&t=17591&page=3

Posted by holfresh:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by nyk4ever:

Harrington is a PF and Granger is a SF. The Harrington signing in no way impacts Granger, whom by the way , I COVETED since he was sophmore at New Mexico.



[Edited by - nyk4ever on 10-20-2006 12:49 AM]

au contraire my good man...harrington is a small forward...Did you not remember him having David Lee for breakfast on the perimeter last year...He is a small forward tho...


True he MIGHT have played SF but his natural position is PF and its the position he'll be playing for the Pacers.
C- J'Oneal
PF- Harrington
SF- Granger
SG- Jackson
PG- Tinsley

You can bank on it.



Foster will start at Center and Oneal at PF...I thought you were a fan of this game...


"I thought you were a fan of this game..."

Whose the know-it-all Holfresh?
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
holfresh
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10/29/2006  4:22 PM
Posted by fishmike:

its not about Curry and Frye... its about Frye and Frye. He cant guard 4's. He's not some kid we are waiting to develop. He's a 4 year CBB player, who played center only in CBB, and is failing to make a position change.

Whats building for the future got to do with trading him? If we traded him I would look to get a young stud back.

Patience? I'm not saying we have to trade him now. The Knicks neednt have a timetable for Frye. But their coack/gm is looking at a very bad start if they keep running this guy out at PF

What are you talking about, the season hasn't even started and most here want him traded...This guy can give the Knick 18 and 8 this year at the position...David Lee is even worse defensively at the position, it would be a total mistake to throw him in there at this time...Frye is having trouble yes in preseason but it's preseason still...Lee can't guard anyone there but no one seems to care...
nyk4ever
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10/29/2006  4:23 PM
Oh yeah, Carlisle recently said that Granger will be starting at SF, Harrington at PF and J'Oneal at Center. Maybe your own line should be applied to yourself.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
holfresh
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10/29/2006  4:31 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:


For your guide ny4ever, the entire basketball world is picking Orlando to have a huge season...Just like the entire globe is picked the Miami Dolphins to have a great season this year...I can't wait for this season to unfold...Also it is your opinion that Orlando will do well...Just like it's my opinion they will be a so so team...We will figure who is right by midseason... Not sure why you are claiming you are right at this moment but doesn't surprise me that you think you know it all...


Apparently you have amnesia. We were not arguing about the Magic as a team, I was arguing with you about your horrid scouting reports of Dwight Howard and Jameer Nelson, you couldn't have been more wrong with either one of them.

Secondly, you are calling me someone who "claims to know it all?"
from the thread "I've been a Knick fan for 33 years thread"
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/post.asp?method=Edit&r=297757&t=17591&page=3

Posted by holfresh:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by nyk4ever:

Harrington is a PF and Granger is a SF. The Harrington signing in no way impacts Granger, whom by the way , I COVETED since he was sophmore at New Mexico.



[Edited by - nyk4ever on 10-20-2006 12:49 AM]

au contraire my good man...harrington is a small forward...Did you not remember him having David Lee for breakfast on the perimeter last year...He is a small forward tho...


True he MIGHT have played SF but his natural position is PF and its the position he'll be playing for the Pacers.
C- J'Oneal
PF- Harrington
SF- Granger
SG- Jackson
PG- Tinsley

You can bank on it.



Foster will start at Center and Oneal at PF...I thought you were a fan of this game...


"I thought you were a fan of this game..."

Whose the know-it-all Holfresh?


OK...Do you no know that O'neil starts at PF for the Pacers....U jumped into a conversation between myself and someone else like you usually do to pass on incorrect information...You jumped into the conversation to tell me that Arrington is a POWER FORWARD and he will play that position for the Pacers so you deserved it....Jameer is a shoot first guard and Howard is inconsistent...Great rebounder but disappears at times especially when he plays Curry!!!
nyk4ever
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10/29/2006  4:48 PM
Posted by holfresh:

OK...Do you no know that O'neil starts at PF for the Pacers....
Although Rick Carlisle hasn't made a formal decision, it appears he's leaning toward starting Danny Granger, Jermaine O'Neal and Al Harrington together in the frontcourt.
Carlisle started the three together again Thursday against the Jazz. "We'll see," Carlisle said. "It allows us to have our best players to start the game. That's a positive if you can make that work. At this point, I'm open to anything."
That says enough.
U jumped into a conversation between myself and someone else like you usually do to pass on incorrect information...
First off, this is a messageboard. Shall we all await cues from others on when to post information? This is how messageboards work, when your ready to add something to the conversation thats when you do did. More importantly, the only reason I jumped in, was because you pointed out that the Pacers were down on Granger which is why they signed Al Harrington. This couldn't be any further from the truth. I then pointed out that Harrington was signed to play PF and that both he and Granger would be in the starting lineup and as usual, you jabbed back with a childish comment such as "I thought you knew this game"
You jumped into the conversation to tell me that Arrington is a POWER FORWARD and he will play that position for the Pacers so you deserved it
Guess what Harrington is starting at PF this year for the Pacers, Rick Carlisle has said so. I don't get what your argument is here.
....Jameer is a shoot first guard and Howard is inconsistent...Great rebounder but disappears at times especially when he plays Curry!!!
As I pointed out in the thread where this was discussed, Jameer Nelson is not a Shoot-First guard by design. Just because he played one last year on a team with no offensive options aside from Dwight Howard, doesn't make him one. You also pointed out in that thread that Nelson is a horrid defender which is absolutely untrue as well. I wasn't sure where you could have gotten an idea like that about Nelsons D, but then I looked at his stats and saw he didn't average many steals, so I figured thats where you got that idea from. Just because you don't average many steals, doesn't make you a bad defender. Nelson is a great man-to-man defender and doesn't let his man score many points because of his great man-to-man defense.

So just because Dwight Howard disappeared last year when he played the Knicks you are going to call him inconsistent? I mean geez, a 2nd year player in the NBA is disappearing every now and then, what a concept. Everyone expects that and if your going to use that as your argument to say that you'd rather take Curry over him than that ridiculous.

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
SugarRayRichardson
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10/29/2006  4:54 PM
Posted by fishmike:

its not about Curry and Frye... its about Frye and Frye. He cant guard 4's. He's not some kid we are waiting to develop. He's a 4 year CBB player, who played center only in CBB, and is failing to make a position change.

Whats building for the future got to do with trading him? If we traded him I would look to get a young stud back.

Patience? I'm not saying we have to trade him now. The Knicks neednt have a timetable for Frye. But their coack/gm is looking at a very bad start if they keep running this guy out at PF


He is 23 years old and has yet to play even 1 full season in the nba.
You seem to have this position deal in college firmly entrenched in your mind and ignore the fact that many maybe the majority of players coming out of college change positions. The NBA is a much taller faster, and stronger league. Frye played center against much shorter guys and still didnt play a traditional centers role. Since you are so hung up on college positions:
Should Bernard King have been a PF in the NBA like in college?
Should Anthony Mason have been a SG in the NBA like in college?

You know what is funny? even Shaq played out of position in college. He usually played PF because Stanley Roberts played Center. Ditto Mourning because Mutumbo played center in college.

LOL In the NFL you have Hines Ward, Randle El, Drew Bennet, Ronald Curry, etc etc who played QB in College.

Bottom line is college is not the NBA.
I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
fishmike
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10/29/2006  4:54 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by fishmike:

its not about Curry and Frye... its about Frye and Frye. He cant guard 4's. He's not some kid we are waiting to develop. He's a 4 year CBB player, who played center only in CBB, and is failing to make a position change.

Whats building for the future got to do with trading him? If we traded him I would look to get a young stud back.

Patience? I'm not saying we have to trade him now. The Knicks neednt have a timetable for Frye. But their coack/gm is looking at a very bad start if they keep running this guy out at PF

What are you talking about, the season hasn't even started and most here want him traded...This guy can give the Knick 18 and 8 this year at the position...David Lee is even worse defensively at the position, it would be a total mistake to throw him in there at this time...Frye is having trouble yes in preseason but it's preseason still...Lee can't guard anyone there but no one seems to care...

Lee is a ybetter rebounder by far, much quicker and faster. Neither are lockdown defenders (obviously) but Lee at least keeps a body on the guy he's guarding. Frye's lucky if he remembers who he's guarding.
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nyk4ever
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10/29/2006  4:55 PM
Of course before when you "arrested" your case, you were putting more words into my mouth. There isn't one person on this forum who doesn't want to see Channing succeed but the fact of the matter is that this is NOT a rebuilding year. If this team is NOT rebuilding, the team should be in winning mode and right now David Lee brings the starting lineup things it doesn't have and sorely needs. Starting Channing Frye is doing nothing for Frye's confidence and nothing for the Knicks so what is the point of starting him? Let him play the same amount of minutes coming off the bench but with a different group of players where Fryes talents can be utilized fully.

If you take from what I just said that I don't like Channing Frye than you have serious comprehension problems.
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rvhoss
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10/29/2006  4:58 PM
can someone explain to me how Lee can guard PFs better than Frye?

Is there a stat that shows how well starting PFs did?

The winning streak when Lee started is comparable to the "streak" when Frye was putting up 30 point games. The question is, how well did the opposing teams PF do? also, was lee starting at the 3 during that streak?

Maybe you guys should be calling for lee to start over JJ2 and QRich, but to say he should start over frye is shortsighted and has little or no logic attached to it.

Why not start Nate? He's in the same boat as Lee.

Frye is the only player that has started and performed against leagues starters...until Lee is starting and performing against the leagues starters (which in your opinions you'd rather see NOW instead of later) than we don't really have much to discuss.

it's really just opinions and the opinions are from the same people that blame isiah for not going with youth, hate starphucking and hope they tank this year so isiah can be fired/marbury traded/knicks sold.

So, there isn't much merit to it.

except for the occassional post by ****** which appears to validate them to keep the conversation going.

Frye is a stud...deal with it.

Lee is a stud...but better against the other teams second unit.

I'd take frye over Lee against KG any day...however, I'd take Lee against shaq...let them fight it out.

(which sentence will be the new footer?)
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holfresh
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10/29/2006  4:58 PM

My entire point was, what gives you all the idea that Orlando will be a team to be reckoned this year...There are still so many questions about the individuals on that team that people can't wait to jump on the bandwagon to say I said so first...I even heard it today on the radio about how good Orlando is going to be this year...This I can't wait to see...
rvhoss
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10/29/2006  5:00 PM
Don't you want to see him succeed in a different uniform?

We'd like to see him succeed here...and we ARE rebuilding!!!

Geez...why does nobody see that...we have a majority of the contributors under the age of 26 (5 of the last two drafts, I think all first rounders, but could be wrong) and QRich, JJ2, Crawford, Curry...heck, that's 3/5ths of the roster. (or 95%) [islesfat fact checker mistake left on purpose]

What is rebuilding? Please explain?

Posted by nyk4ever:

Of course before when you "arrested" your case, you were putting more words into my mouth. There isn't one person on this forum who doesn't want to see Channing succeed but the fact of the matter is that this is NOT a rebuilding year. If this team is NOT rebuilding, the team should be in winning mode and right now David Lee brings the starting lineup things it doesn't have and sorely needs. Starting Channing Frye is doing nothing for Frye's confidence and nothing for the Knicks so what is the point of starting him? Let him play the same amount of minutes coming off the bench but with a different group of players where Fryes talents can be utilized fully.

If you take from what I just said that I don't like Channing Frye than you have serious comprehension problems.

all kool aid all the time.
holfresh
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10/29/2006  5:06 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by fishmike:

its not about Curry and Frye... its about Frye and Frye. He cant guard 4's. He's not some kid we are waiting to develop. He's a 4 year CBB player, who played center only in CBB, and is failing to make a position change.

Whats building for the future got to do with trading him? If we traded him I would look to get a young stud back.

Patience? I'm not saying we have to trade him now. The Knicks neednt have a timetable for Frye. But their coack/gm is looking at a very bad start if they keep running this guy out at PF

What are you talking about, the season hasn't even started and most here want him traded...This guy can give the Knick 18 and 8 this year at the position...David Lee is even worse defensively at the position, it would be a total mistake to throw him in there at this time...Frye is having trouble yes in preseason but it's preseason still...Lee can't guard anyone there but no one seems to care...

Lee is a ybetter rebounder by far, much quicker and faster. Neither are lockdown defenders (obviously) but Lee at least keeps a body on the guy he's guarding. Frye's lucky if he remembers who he's guarding.

Lee by no stretch of even nyk4ever's imagination is a good defender...I haven't seen it but I'm not sure if he can play Power Forwards in this league with that body...Yeah he rebounds well but there is a bit more to playing Power Forward than grabbing a rebound...But my thing is, you don't even care if he plays D...You don't care if Frye has more upside...Frye gets a knock and he hasn't been given a chance to play the position for us to see what he can do...
nyk4ever
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10/29/2006  5:09 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

Don't you want to see him succeed in a different uniform?

We'd like to see him succeed here...and we ARE rebuilding!!!

Geez...why does nobody see that...we have a majority of the contributors under the age of 26 (5 of the last two drafts, I think all first rounders, but could be wrong) and QRich, JJ2, Crawford, Curry...heck, that's 3/5ths of the roster. (or 95%) [islesfat fact checker mistake left on purpose]

What is rebuilding? Please explain?

Posted by nyk4ever:

Of course before when you "arrested" your case, you were putting more words into my mouth. There isn't one person on this forum who doesn't want to see Channing succeed but the fact of the matter is that this is NOT a rebuilding year. If this team is NOT rebuilding, the team should be in winning mode and right now David Lee brings the starting lineup things it doesn't have and sorely needs. Starting Channing Frye is doing nothing for Frye's confidence and nothing for the Knicks so what is the point of starting him? Let him play the same amount of minutes coming off the bench but with a different group of players where Fryes talents can be utilized fully.

If you take from what I just said that I don't like Channing Frye than you have serious comprehension problems.

What does NOT entail rebuilding.

-Acquiring Steve Francis AND Jalen Rose at last years deadline
-Trading 2 straight 1st round picks. One of them turned out to be a lottery pick and the other pick has a great chance to be a lottery pick.
-Signing a 30+ year old Center to a Full mid-level exception
-Constantly adding to the payroll.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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What's all this Trade Frye/ Frye is the weak link crap?
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