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doom and gloom, yet 4-1 in pre-season
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oohah
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10/25/2006  3:13 AM
Posted by PresIke:

Yeah, but pre-season is meaningless because the games don't count and teams don't really try to win...

or is it that it means everything because it is an indication of what we should expect in the regular season?

I guess claiming one or the other depends upon your perspective and agenda. But surely if you say one or the other, one seems to be leaning towards a black and white view of things.

[Edited by - PresIke on 10-25-2006 12:53 AM]

What do you think? Do pre-season games mean something? Everything? Nothing? Why not tell us what you think?

oohah

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fishmike
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10/25/2006  7:17 AM
Posted by EnySpree:

I know 4-1 don't mean nothing in exibition play but it sure meant a lot the other day when Boston blew the knicks out.

So which is it?

We should have more to cheer about than complain
I think the good and bad was pretty clear last night. The good is the Knicks have a lot of depth. We have a lot of long athletic guys and the young guys hustle. Crawford and Q continued strong preseasons and Balkman/Lee line ups continue to make things happen.

The bad is the stuff we beaten around here constantly. Frye is not a 4, and despite his superior athleticism was totally unable to deal with Webber last night. Webber is a super savvy veteran and a very skilled player but Frye got toyed with. Curry? 22 minutes, 2 rebounds, and one of those was off a long miss and it was going to hit him in the face.

How this team can be successfull starting 2 centers, one that cant defend 4's and the other that doesnt rebound (at all) on the defensive glass is beyond me.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Solace
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10/25/2006  9:22 AM
Wow. I love getting all high about winning games that don't count.

Let's see what happens once the real season starts. I've seen teams have very good preseasons and flunk during the season and vice versa. Doesn't mean much at this juncture. The preseason is the time when teams figure out what assets they have, how they will approach things, what strengths they can exploit and what weaknesses they have to try to hide. Much of what happens in the preseason is irrelevant, because teams aren't going out there with the idea that they have to win, yet.
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izybx
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10/25/2006  9:48 AM
Yes its only preseason but Ill tell you what, take out our best player and take out Philly's best player, and look at the end product. They were awful, we barely missed a step.
Beat the Evil Empire. BEAT MIAMI
Bippity10
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10/25/2006  9:51 AM
I listed my expectations of the pre-season. Started a thread about it. If you want my opiniion about that you can read the thread. To summarize I said I couldn't care less about wins and losses but cared about how they played. I wanted hustle and all out team work. I wanted a cut in turnovers, better team ball, concentration and a team that does not quit. For the most part I've gotten that and am happy about it. But when I don't see it. When a team gives up and dies in a game as a fan it is my duty to point it out. And yes, like blueseats I am extremely angry and concerned when it does occur. And any fan that is not angry over displays like that concern me as well.

That being said I've only seen 2 pre-season games because I live in Boston. Both games were against the Celtics. In one they looked good and the other was an embarrassment and has no business ever occurring and should not be excused unless your standards are in the toilet and you are happy shooting for 38 wins like some NY fans. But their is some improvement. The guards look good. The big men look okay offensively. The concerns are that the defense still looks sieve like and nobody mentions that we are averaging 22 turnovers per game. Take away the horrible 31 turnover display and it goes down to 19.7. If 4-1 is an indicator of how good we are. Then 19.7 turnovers should be an indicator of how precarious that "good" actually is.
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islesfan
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10/25/2006  10:01 AM
There's a difference between a good performance and a win. Just because they have 4 wins doesn't mean they have 4 good performances. Defensively they were bad all four games, and that's without the other teams best offensive players.

Offensively the guards shot better than can be expected. The frontcourt guys look either confused or have just played badly aside from a few spurts here and there. Overall I wouldn't want to rely on guards shooting better than usual instead of a team executing and playing in sync.

[Edited by - islesfan on 10-25-2006 10:04 AM]
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Bippity10
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10/25/2006  10:18 AM
Now before the nixluva's of the world cry and moan and bitch about the first thing negative. Again this pre-season has gone well. I don't care if other teams have their starters out. There is an attempt by the players to right the wrongs that THEY NOT LB, committed last year. But there still are some danger signs that we can't ignore. Defense and turnovers must be fixed. Unless we are happy with shooting for mediocrity.
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MS
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10/25/2006  10:26 AM
PI 2 wins (2 Wins)

Game 1 No Iverson or Sammy
Game 2 No Iverson

Boston (1 Win)
Without Pierce

NJ (1 Win)
Without Kidd and Carter

We have looked like utter **** during preseason, Frye is not hitting his jumper like he was last year, Curry is aweful bigger than last year just as foul prone, and crawford still takes a lot of bad shots, and Jefferies = Balkman
nixluva
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10/25/2006  10:35 AM
Frye and Curry definitely need to step up. The thing is that we really are a guard oriented team. Our Bigs aren't dependable yet, as primary scorers. It takes some of the pressure off of them to have the other players on the court take the lead in scoring and the bigs take a secondary role at times. Until Frye and Curry get it together, this will be a guard oriented offense. Both guys are always a threat which is why we got so many open shots. Teams have to pay a lot of attention to our bigs, cuz they CAN SCORE.

Defense is going to be a problem, but then that wasn't a surprise. This team is going to win like the Suns, with their offense. Our best defense is an aggressive and efficient offense. It's like the Montana and Rice 49'ers. They won mostly with great offense. It's not the norm, but that's how they did it. The Peyton Manning Colts are similar. Sometimes you just have to go with what your strength is. We led the league in FT attempts last year and so far we are pretty good again in terms of drawing fouls. I think we'll have a VERY efficient offense this year as well. The turnovers are still high and I hope they'll cut down as the year goes along and they jell more. Hopefully once Jared gets back and jells with the other guys, we'll get a bit better on D. If we have Jared, Lee, Balkman, Q and jamal on the court, that could be a very nice defensive unit. Not very big, but solid on D. You could also switch in Frye for Balkman and that should still be a nice defensive unit.
djsunyc
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10/25/2006  10:40 AM
same old eddy...

vs nj - 21 mins, 8 pts, 5 rebs, 5 to's, 0 asts, 0 blks, 1 stl. 5 fouls
vs phi - 26 mins, 25 pts, 10 rebs, 3 to's, 0 asts, 0 blks, 0 stls, 3 fouls
vs bos - 28 mins, 19 pts, 5 rebs, 2 to's, 0 asts, 0 blks, 0 stls, 3 fouls
vs bos - 28 mins, 12 pts, 2 rebs, 5 to's, 0 asts, 2 blks, 0 stls, 2 fouls
vs phi - 22 mins, 10 pts, 2 rebs, 3 to's, 2 asts, 0 blks, 1 stl, 5 fouls
nixluva
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10/25/2006  10:45 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

same old eddy...

vs nj - 21 mins, 8 pts, 5 rebs, 5 to's, 0 asts, 0 blks, 1 stl. 5 fouls
vs phi - 26 mins, 25 pts, 10 rebs, 3 to's, 0 asts, 0 blks, 0 stls, 3 fouls
vs bos - 28 mins, 19 pts, 5 rebs, 2 to's, 0 asts, 0 blks, 0 stls, 3 fouls
vs bos - 28 mins, 12 pts, 2 rebs, 5 to's, 0 asts, 2 blks, 0 stls, 2 fouls
vs phi - 22 mins, 10 pts, 2 rebs, 3 to's, 2 asts, 0 blks, 1 stl, 5 fouls

Perhaps, but then we don't really know how things are going to go in the regular season. This hasn't been the actual rotation we're gonna use, nor is this the entire playbook. We have to put things in perspective. Overall I like the direction of the offense, but it's gonna take time for this team to fully grasp it and get totally comfortable with everything and each other in it.
All that matter's to me is how the TEAM plays. If we're winning games this year, I won't care about anyone's individual performance.
joec32033
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10/25/2006  10:49 AM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by djsunyc:

same old eddy...

vs nj - 21 mins, 8 pts, 5 rebs, 5 to's, 0 asts, 0 blks, 1 stl. 5 fouls
vs phi - 26 mins, 25 pts, 10 rebs, 3 to's, 0 asts, 0 blks, 0 stls, 3 fouls
vs bos - 28 mins, 19 pts, 5 rebs, 2 to's, 0 asts, 0 blks, 0 stls, 3 fouls
vs bos - 28 mins, 12 pts, 2 rebs, 5 to's, 0 asts, 2 blks, 0 stls, 2 fouls
vs phi - 22 mins, 10 pts, 2 rebs, 3 to's, 2 asts, 0 blks, 1 stl, 5 fouls

Perhaps, but then we don't really know how things are going to go in the regular season. This hasn't been the actual rotation we're gonna use, nor is this the entire playbook. We have to put things in perspective. Overall I like the direction of the offense, but it's gonna take time for this team to fully grasp it and get totally comfortable with everything and each other in it.
All that matter's to me is how the TEAM plays. If we're winning games this year, I won't care about anyone's individual performance.

Things have gone the same for Curry for 5 years. I hope this is the year he does turn it around but based on the fact he looks exactly the same as he always does isn't promising.

[Edited by - joec32033 on 10-25-2006 10:49 AM]
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MS
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10/25/2006  11:08 AM
18 to's Eddy is really a big problem and a terrible player i would look to move him right away before we have to put up with this crap for 4 more years
bigbeast
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10/25/2006  11:46 AM
First off, you shouldn't judge a defense by how much points they give up, you judge by FG %. The knicks are going to play at a faster pace (which translates into more FG attmpts by both teams) so teams probably will score a few more points, but the area I will be looking at is Fg %.

BTW, funny how you giys are quick to point out what players are missing on the opposition, but nobody mentions that Marb (hate him or love him he's our best player) was out of last nights game and we didn't miss a beat. Then Francis (arguably our 2nd best player) didn't play against Boston.
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
oohah
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10/25/2006  11:50 AM
Posted by bigbeast:

First off, you shouldn't judge a defense by how much points they give up, you judge by FG %. The knicks are going to play at a faster pace (which translates into more FG attmpts by both teams) so teams probably will score a few more points, but the area I will be looking at is Fg %.

BTW, funny how you giys are quick to point out what players are missing on the opposition, but nobody mentions that Marb (hate him or love him he's our best player) was out of last nights game and we didn't miss a beat. Then Francis (arguably our 2nd best player) didn't play against Boston.




oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
nyk4ever
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10/25/2006  12:23 PM
Posted by nixluva:

Frye and Curry definitely need to step up. The thing is that we really are a guard oriented team. Our Bigs aren't dependable yet, as primary scorers. It takes some of the pressure off of them to have the other players on the court take the lead in scoring and the bigs take a secondary role at times. Until Frye and Curry get it together, this will be a guard oriented offense. Both guys are always a threat which is why we got so many open shots. Teams have to pay a lot of attention to our bigs, cuz they CAN SCORE.

Defense is going to be a problem, but then that wasn't a surprise. This team is going to win like the Suns, with their offense. Our best defense is an aggressive and efficient offense. It's like the Montana and Rice 49'ers. They won mostly with great offense. It's not the norm, but that's how they did it. The Peyton Manning Colts are similar. Sometimes you just have to go with what your strength is. We led the league in FT attempts last year and so far we are pretty good again in terms of drawing fouls. I think we'll have a VERY efficient offense this year as well. The turnovers are still high and I hope they'll cut down as the year goes along and they jell more. Hopefully once Jared gets back and jells with the other guys, we'll get a bit better on D. If we have Jared, Lee, Balkman, Q and jamal on the court, that could be a very nice defensive unit. Not very big, but solid on D. You could also switch in Frye for Balkman and that should still be a nice defensive unit.

This is the exact reason I said Lee should be starting and you went off on me. Frye's scoring ability is NOT being utilized at all in the starting lineup becuase of the guards and Frye does nothing else on the court right now to warrant him being out there with that group. If Lee were starting, it would bring Rebounding and hustle to starting lineup, something it sorely lacks. Frye is also very comfortable playing with Jamal and Nate so why not bring him off the bench? He'll get the same amount of minutes but he will be utilized in a more suitable way. It makes so much more sense.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 10-25-2006 12:24 PM]
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joec32033
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10/25/2006  12:26 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by nixluva:

Frye and Curry definitely need to step up. The thing is that we really are a guard oriented team. Our Bigs aren't dependable yet, as primary scorers. It takes some of the pressure off of them to have the other players on the court take the lead in scoring and the bigs take a secondary role at times. Until Frye and Curry get it together, this will be a guard oriented offense. Both guys are always a threat which is why we got so many open shots. Teams have to pay a lot of attention to our bigs, cuz they CAN SCORE.

Defense is going to be a problem, but then that wasn't a surprise. This team is going to win like the Suns, with their offense. Our best defense is an aggressive and efficient offense. It's like the Montana and Rice 49'ers. They won mostly with great offense. It's not the norm, but that's how they did it. The Peyton Manning Colts are similar. Sometimes you just have to go with what your strength is. We led the league in FT attempts last year and so far we are pretty good again in terms of drawing fouls. I think we'll have a VERY efficient offense this year as well. The turnovers are still high and I hope they'll cut down as the year goes along and they jell more. Hopefully once Jared gets back and jells with the other guys, we'll get a bit better on D. If we have Jared, Lee, Balkman, Q and jamal on the court, that could be a very nice defensive unit. Not very big, but solid on D. You could also switch in Frye for Balkman and that should still be a nice defensive unit.

This is the exact reason I said Lee should be starting and you went off on me. Frye's scoring ability is NOT being utilized at all in the starting lineup becuase of the guards and Frye does nothing else on the court right now to warrant him being out there with that group. If Lee were starting, it would bring Rebounding and hustle to starting lineup, something it sorely lacks. Frye is also very comfortable playing with Jamal and Nate so why not bring him off the bench? He'll get the same amount of minutes but he will be utilized in a more suitable way. It makes so much more sense.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 10-25-2006 12:24 PM]

Did you two just sort of kind of agree? Where are the 4 horseman of the Apocalypse?
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nyk4ever
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10/25/2006  12:28 PM
Posted by joec32033:


Did you two just sort of kind of agree? Where are the 4 horseman of the Apocalypse?

Hold on while i put on my wintercoat becuase Knick fan hell just froze over.

He agreed with ME, not the other way around.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Swishfm3
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10/25/2006  12:36 PM
Posted by bigbeast:

First off, you shouldn't judge a defense by how much points they give up, you judge by FG %. The knicks are going to play at a faster pace (which translates into more FG attmpts by both teams) so teams probably will score a few more points, but the area I will be looking at is Fg %.

BTW, funny how you giys are quick to point out what players are missing on the opposition, but nobody mentions that Marb (hate him or love him he's our best player) was out of last nights game and we didn't miss a beat. Then Francis (arguably our 2nd best player) didn't play against Boston.


just in case anyone missed it.

But to DJ post....those reb stats by Curry are Unsat. smh
djsunyc
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10/25/2006  12:37 PM
Posted by Swishfm3:
Posted by bigbeast:

First off, you shouldn't judge a defense by how much points they give up, you judge by FG %. The knicks are going to play at a faster pace (which translates into more FG attmpts by both teams) so teams probably will score a few more points, but the area I will be looking at is Fg %.

BTW, funny how you giys are quick to point out what players are missing on the opposition, but nobody mentions that Marb (hate him or love him he's our best player) was out of last nights game and we didn't miss a beat. Then Francis (arguably our 2nd best player) didn't play against Boston.


just in case anyone missed it.

But to DJ post....those reb stats by Curry are Unsat. smh

i think that supports many people's sentiments here that we are better WITHOUT marbury.
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