Posted by bigbeast:

Posted by holfresh:


It's not about the number of victories but where we are as a group at the end of the year...Has Curry and Frye developed into something we can build our Franchise around...Has Isiah showed us what he was thinking when he assembled this group...A low number of victories would answer that question...But the important thing will be player development and style of play...

Exactly. It depends on the development of the team and especially the young core.

BTW, how can anyone compare this team to that 37 win team that he took over. Shandon Anderson, Spoon, Doleac etc didn't present a hopefull future of winning basketball. Had that team stayed together, the record would have plumented (the East is much better bow than it was then)and eventually would have posted a similar record to last yrs team minus the sideshows, a coach with an agenda etc. That team 4 yrs ago would have posted a 23 win record because that team was built for present-day-medocrity with a blind-eye for the future.

Say what you want about Zeke, but this team does have a hoefull future. Lee Curry, Frye, Nate, Craw have more potential than any one of the players Layden acquired.

I am thinking the same thing about the 37 win layden team- but, while this group is in instances younger and loaded with both potential and talent, we're also a lot more expensive. I would have traded everything Isiah did (trading for marbury, trading picks away) and kept that team and let players walk and draft and actually rebuild in a more traditional way.

Posted by franco12:

Posted by bigbeast:

Posted by holfresh:


It's not about the number of victories but where we are as a group at the end of the year...Has Curry and Frye developed into something we can build our Franchise around...Has Isiah showed us what he was thinking when he assembled this group...A low number of victories would answer that question...But the important thing will be player development and style of play...

Exactly. It depends on the development of the team and especially the young core.

BTW, how can anyone compare this team to that 37 win team that he took over. Shandon Anderson, Spoon, Doleac etc didn't present a hopefull future of winning basketball. Had that team stayed together, the record would have plumented (the East is much better bow than it was then)and eventually would have posted a similar record to last yrs team minus the sideshows, a coach with an agenda etc. That team 4 yrs ago would have posted a 23 win record because that team was built for present-day-medocrity with a blind-eye for the future.

Say what you want about Zeke, but this team does have a hoefull future. Lee Curry, Frye, Nate, Craw have more potential than any one of the players Layden acquired.

I am thinking the same thing about the 37 win layden team- but, while this group is in instances younger and loaded with both potential and talent, we're also a lot more expensive. I would have traded everything Isiah did (trading for marbury, trading picks away) and kept that team and let players walk and draft and actually rebuild in a more traditional way.

Then you probably would have been fired after your first season. Dolan's not gonna tolerate a full rebuild. He made it very clear Isiah had to make to playoffs immediately.

Posted by islesfan:

How can matching Layden's last year here, 37 wins, be enough?

All you hear is how much better we are with Isiah instead of Layden. Well then almost 4 years and hundreds of millions of dollars later we should be able to at least match Layden, right?

Posted by wsdm:

Posted by franco12:

Posted by bigbeast:

Posted by holfresh:


It's not about the number of victories but where we are as a group at the end of the year...Has Curry and Frye developed into something we can build our Franchise around...Has Isiah showed us what he was thinking when he assembled this group...A low number of victories would answer that question...But the important thing will be player development and style of play...

Exactly. It depends on the development of the team and especially the young core.

BTW, how can anyone compare this team to that 37 win team that he took over. Shandon Anderson, Spoon, Doleac etc didn't present a hopefull future of winning basketball. Had that team stayed together, the record would have plumented (the East is much better bow than it was then)and eventually would have posted a similar record to last yrs team minus the sideshows, a coach with an agenda etc. That team 4 yrs ago would have posted a 23 win record because that team was built for present-day-medocrity with a blind-eye for the future.

Say what you want about Zeke, but this team does have a hoefull future. Lee Curry, Frye, Nate, Craw have more potential than any one of the players Layden acquired.

I am thinking the same thing about the 37 win layden team- but, while this group is in instances younger and loaded with both potential and talent, we're also a lot more expensive. I would have traded everything Isiah did (trading for marbury, trading picks away) and kept that team and let players walk and draft and actually rebuild in a more traditional way.

Then you probably would have been fired after your first season. Dolan's not gonna tolerate a full rebuild. He made it very clear Isiah had to make to playoffs immediately.

Partially disagree. Dolan is an ars and cares mainly about his money, but I think he'll definitely tolerate the rebuilding. Just look at the Rangers. If he sees it will lead to long term success he'll do it. Regardless, I agree he clearly only cares about the money.

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by oohah:

This is Isiahs 4th year not his first year

Really? He was co-coaching for the past 2.5 season? And it is not his fourth year. He is at 2.5 seasons as we speak.

Posted by nykshaknbake:

I think you hafta distinguish between Isiah as the GM and as the coach. You could credibly fire him now as the GM as the team has gotten worse and worse record wise. As a coach it's his 1st year not his 4th.

Only if you want to be fair. If you want to be unfair, any criteria goes!

oohah

Yeah I HATE when people talk about Isiah's time here and say this is his 4th year. It exaggerates the actual time he's been here and makes things seem much worse.

The BULK of the team we have now has been brought in over the last season and this offseason, so we're only talking about 1 year or less for most of these players.

Curry, Frye, Lee, Nate, QRich, Francis, Jalen, James, Balkman, Collins and whoever he finally signs as the 15th man. You can't just ignore the fact that this team is practically NEW. Had LB simply done his job last year, then we'd likely only be talking about the 1st 1.5 seasons as being bad and last year as being the beginning of this teams heading in a new direction. We all know that LB did a lousy job with this team and so that disaster goes on Isiah's record, when it should at the least have been a growing year. A season to establish the new players on this team and start to develop some identity and chemistry.

Well now we're a year behind in that effort, so Isiah is going to be cut some slack, due to the lousy effort by LB, which set the team back a bit. 41 wins seems fair to me, even tho the talent on this team might suggest that they should do more. I am expecting more from the team and I think they actually have a chance to be a playoff team this year. Well see.

How can you exaggerate the actual time that Isiah has been here calling ALL of the shots?

He doesn't get a do over and a chance to reset the clock every time he adds new players. Nobody does, not even Lord Isiah.

Posted by oohah:

Posted by joec32033:

45. Minimum.

Joe, a wise poster once wrote: First year is not about wins, it is about teaching...

This poster wasn't me, it was some other guy...J-something with some numbers...

oohah

So what you're saying is that now we are giving Isiah a hange to start all over with a clean slate as a coach? With players that he brought in that would fit the system he wanted to impliment?

Oh, and didn't someone say "I have to see a significant improvement this season for Isiah to keep his job."? Someone that is in a bad, the son of some guy named Charles Dolan? Oh what is his name?....

Point being, this season is about wins for Isiah, the more wins he gets the better chance he keeps his job. And I really don't want to hear about how we are this young team. We have 3 maybe 4 young guys(Frye, Curry, Lee, maybe Balkman) that may play major minutes. And this is in very complimentary roles. The guards are supposed to dominate tis offense...That's 30 yr olds Francis and Marbury(9 and 10 years in the league respectively). Our starting SF battle is between a 27 yr. old Richardson (6 yrs in the league?) and a 24 yr old Jefferies(4 or 5 yrs in the league). Our 6th man may be a 24 yr. old Crawford (6 yrs. in the league).

Now I am not saying we don't have young talent but this team is really geared toward guys that need to win now and the young guys just need to fill a role until they develop. They are not ready to be main guys yet.

Posted by rvhoss:

no, what he is saying is that you are flip flopping your opinion based on who you are talking about.

Posted by oohah:

Posted by joec32033:

Posted by rvhoss:

no, what he is saying is that you are flip flopping your opinion based on who you are talking about.

I understand that, and there are these things pesky things called circumstances that tend to bias my opinion one way or another. LB was brought here-supposedly-as a long term solution. He can afford to teach his first year with a 5 year contract.

Dolan said Isiah has one year to turn things around. Isiah had brought in these players with the skills to play his system. Isiah has constantly preached how easy this system was on the players. Now they need a whole season to learn it? Even if it takes a 3 months to learn, 45 wins is only 3 games above .500.

BE FAIR JOE!

Let's say it takes 3 months to learn. Do you think they are over or under .500 during that time? After 3 months they have to go on some serious win streaks!

oohah

I am being fair. So are we now expecting this team to be 10-15 games under .500 after 3 months?