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Knicks - Celtics last night - My reaction (I was at the game)
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rvhoss
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10/22/2006  4:59 PM
you name those 4 and you are basically naming everyone (those invested in our future and those invested in our now, those that LB loved and performed under LB, those that LB hated, two completely different looks at our front court, etc.

It is good to realize what the knicks are without proper coaching, but we already knew from last year how they would react.

horribly.

it was a pre-season game. it will prove to be beneficial the things we are able to Learn from this loss than negatives.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 10-22-2006 5:00 PM]
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nixluva
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10/22/2006  5:10 PM
During the course of preseason it's not unusual to go into a game looking to work on or see certain things. You sacrifice the game for the sake of getting information about your team. I see nothing wrong with that in the least. Isiah pretty much knows what he has in the guys in the rotation, but those end of bench guys are a mystery. We don't have James or Malik and no guarantee when they'll be back, so Isiah is trying to see if any of these guys should be kept. He's already said that he might have to pick someone up after they're waived by another team. He'll probably start to get more serious with the rotation in the last couple of preseason games.
bigbeast
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10/22/2006  5:18 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by Elite:
Posted by BlueSeats:


I think it's fine to put guys in who could jeopardize your chances in order to give them a look. That's what pre-season is about. But it's another thing if Isiah isn't coaching hard or veterans aren't playing hard in their time on the court.

EXACTLY... and unfortunately... the knicks just diddnt give a **** out there

It was a game until Isiah put in Miller/Clark/Collins at the end of the first quarter. Isiah said after the game that he wanted to see what those guys could do aganist a legit NBA lineup. Obviously, not much. By the time the starters came back in, mid-second Quarter, they were down by I believe 15 or so. The flow and momentum were gone on the knicks side and confidence swirled for the young Celts.


What is your point in posting that? That it's understandable that the team will surrender if they're down 15 in the 2nd?

First off, I disputed your suggestion that Isiah may not have coached to win with the following quote,

NY POST
Yes, they're only exhibition games. But Thomas is trying to break a bad Knick habit called losing.

"I say it to our players every day, from Vince Lombardi," Thomas said. "Winning is not a sometimes thing. It's an all-the-time thing. Don't do something right once in a while. Do it all the time. Winning is a habit. So is losing."

Last Saturday in Philly, after a victory over the Sixers, the Knicks' locker room was filled with laughter and rap music. It was as joyous in that room as it had ever been in Larry Brown's locker room during their 23-59 disgrace.

Thomas liked the joviality.

"Celebrate the wins," Thomas said. "It's hard to win a basketball game. You win a game, celebrate. It's important the team feels good about winning and everyone has a contribution."


Second of all, in no way am I saying its okay for the Knicks to pack it in after falling behind by 15. I was simply pointing out that the scrubs dug the starters a fifteen point hole and the Celts game and confidence soared there after. How about giving the Celts some credit?

Some teams have different objectives in pre-seaon. Some teams want to work in new plays/systems. Some teams want to experiment with different line-up combos and others want to see what they have in terms of rookies and freeagents to see who is worthy of making the cut. Isiah wanted to see what his freeagents could do against a legit NBA lineup and it cost him early. also keep in mind, this is a new system, and its gonna have it ups and downs as they try to master the new concepts.
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
BlueSeats
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10/22/2006  6:40 PM
Big, everything you say is valid, but hypothetical. I didn't see the game and I suspect you didn't either, so I'm working off of Elite's post, who did see the game - and he thought the team looked LAZY.

I don't think you can attribute laziness or disinterest to the Celtics, or to trying things out. I'm all for guys falling on their faces trying something new, if they do so with passion and effort.
rvhoss
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10/22/2006  6:41 PM
what is the spurs and maverick's pre season record?

They lost games.
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BlueSeats
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10/22/2006  6:47 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

what is the spurs and maverick's pre season record?

They lost games.



If it were via laziness and dispassion, and those were traits that landed them in the lottery two years running, I'd say they'd have grounds for concern.
Elite
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10/22/2006  6:52 PM
they honestly just took the night off... which is understandable for the players.. its preseason.. whats not understandable is how Isiah handled it...
bigbeast
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10/22/2006  6:57 PM
I actually did watch the game. It wasn't so much laziness as it was utter confusion. They seemed hesitant and unsure at times. Guys were in areas of the floor they weren't used to being in and you could see they were a bit uncomfortable (Curry got ripped by Rondo at the top of the key holding the ball by his side as if he was in the post). Nate threw the ball away several times on the break because he was trying to give up the ball early as opposed to just taking it coast to coast as he usually does.

But there were some highlight plays. There was a beautiful backdoor cuts by Marbrury from the top of the key. Jalen hit him with a slick bounce pass and Marb flipped it behind his back to Curry for a dunk. Marbury scored on a similar backdoor cut and Balkman got a jam on the baseline off a nice cut to the rim.

I know its gonna take time to learn the intricacies of this new offense, and the Knicks could look like a totally different team from quarter to quarter let alone game to game. But lets hope they grasp the offense sooner rather than later.
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
BlueSeats
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10/22/2006  7:20 PM
Posted by bigbeast:

I actually did watch the game.

In that case I defer to you.
Elite
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10/22/2006  7:25 PM
Posted by bigbeast:

I actually did watch the game. It wasn't so much laziness as it was utter confusion.

I disagree with this also... The lack of focus came from the laziness
TrueBlue
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10/22/2006  7:29 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:

Big, everything you say is valid, but hypothetical. I didn't see the game and I suspect you didn't either, so I'm working off of Elite's post, who did see the game - and he thought the team looked LAZY.

I don't think you can attribute laziness or disinterest to the Celtics, or to trying things out. I'm all for guys falling on their faces trying something new, if they do so with passion and effort.



I saw the game and let me tell you the Celtics didn't just shove their will down their throat but they ran whatever play they wanted and executed them well. They ran in transition just as well and the Knicks laid down on defense the whole game. There was no adjustment to what was being done to them. So far this preseason the defense mainly from the starting unit is giving up 32pts/gm in the 1rst qrt. The continual mentioning of playing scrubs is the most irrelevant excuse of them all for yesterdays pathetic play. Zeke needs to tweak the starting line-up in a major way.
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holfresh
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10/22/2006  7:57 PM
Posted by SeatsBlue:
Posted by BlueSeats:

Big, everything you say is valid, but hypothetical. I didn't see the game and I suspect you didn't either, so I'm working off of Elite's post, who did see the game - and he thought the team looked LAZY.

I don't think you can attribute laziness or disinterest to the Celtics, or to trying things out. I'm all for guys falling on their faces trying something new, if they do so with passion and effort.



I saw the game and let me tell you the Celtics didn't just shove their will down their throat but they ran whatever play they wanted and executed them well. They ran in transition just as well and the Knicks laid down on defense the whole game. There was no adjustment to what was being done to them. So far this preseason the defense mainly from the starting unit is giving up 32pts/gm in the 1rst qrt. The continual mentioning of playing scrubs is the most irrelevant excuse of them all for yesterdays pathetic play. Zeke needs to tweak the starting line-up in a major way.


And who says the preseason means nothing..
TrueBlue
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10/22/2006  8:06 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by SeatsBlue:
Posted by BlueSeats:

Big, everything you say is valid, but hypothetical. I didn't see the game and I suspect you didn't either, so I'm working off of Elite's post, who did see the game - and he thought the team looked LAZY.

I don't think you can attribute laziness or disinterest to the Celtics, or to trying things out. I'm all for guys falling on their faces trying something new, if they do so with passion and effort.



I saw the game and let me tell you the Celtics didn't just shove their will down their throat but they ran whatever play they wanted and executed them well. They ran in transition just as well and the Knicks laid down on defense the whole game. There was no adjustment to what was being done to them. So far this preseason the defense mainly from the starting unit is giving up 32pts/gm in the 1rst qrt. The continual mentioning of playing scrubs is the most irrelevant excuse of them all for yesterdays pathetic play. Zeke needs to tweak the starting line-up in a major way.


And who says the preseason means nothing..



Preseason means nothing in regards to wins and losses. It does have merit when looking at what problems a team needs to work on and obviously the defense is miserable and needs fixing in a hurry.


"Following a close and hard-fought first seven minutes, Thomas brought in end-of-the-bench free agents Milone Clark, Elton Brown, and Paul Miller way earlier than usual -- and the game was never fully competitive after that. “I wanted to see what they can do against some of the best players in the league such as Paul Pierce and Wally Szczerbiak,” said the coach. “Tonight, that was the most important thing. It really disrupted the rhythm and the flow. We were never able to get back in it.”

"The Knicks opened the game well, leading 15-14 on pretty plays by Marbury, Eddy Curry and Jamal Crawford. Boston responded with a 17-6 run against the young guys leading 31-21 at the end of the quarter."


So once the scrubs were subbed out to start the 2nd qrt how come this team couldn't recover from a 10pt defecit? I'm not talking about winning the game, just make it competitive. Then to start the 3rd qrt a 15pt defecit became a 30pt defecit with the starters playing the majority of the 3rd qrt.


Excuses excuses excuses!
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holfresh
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10/22/2006  8:12 PM
Piston is losing by 20+ tot he Nuggets...Billups has 1 pts, Rip has 8 pts, Weed has 4 and Prince has 12...Aren't these guys taking this seriously...Don't they know its preseason and they need to work on their games..Afterall they didn't win it all last year...

Maybe Flip should tweek his lineup...



[Edited by - holfresh on 10-22-2006 8:14 PM]
martin
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10/22/2006  8:19 PM
Posted by holfresh:

Piston is losing by 20+ tot he Nuggets...Billups has 1 pts, Rip has 8 pts, Weed has 4 and Prince has 12...Aren't these guys taking this seriously...Don't they know its preseason and they need to work on their games..Afterall they didn't win it all last year...

Maybe Flip should tweek his lineup...



[Edited by - holfresh on 10-22-2006 8:14 PM]

you don't think there is a big difference between a 23 win team and Detroit?
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bigbeast
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10/22/2006  8:22 PM
Posted by Elite:
Posted by bigbeast:

I actually did watch the game. It wasn't so much laziness as it was utter confusion.

I disagree with this also... The lack of focus came from the laziness

Elite, you were there in person so I guess I have to defer to you. Obviously, you have a better read as far as body language, hutsle behind the plays etc. Watching at home only gives you angles as to what was beong shown on the screen.

With that said, there was alot of hesitating on offense. Whenver the celts came up and overplayed the wings (which took away the Knicks first passing option) the Knicks were forced to work the clock.

and yes, the defense did leave alot to be disered.
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
holfresh
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10/22/2006  8:31 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by holfresh:

Piston is losing by 20+ tot he Nuggets...Billups has 1 pts, Rip has 8 pts, Weed has 4 and Prince has 12...Aren't these guys taking this seriously...Don't they know its preseason and they need to work on their games..Afterall they didn't win it all last year...

Maybe Flip should tweek his lineup...



[Edited by - holfresh on 10-22-2006 8:14 PM]

you don't think there is a big difference between a 23 win team and Detroit?


My point I'm trying to get across is that it's preseason and we can't get rankled when the Celtics go on a run against our scrubs who won't be on the team anyway...If we are going to take it seriuosly then I like where we are sitting..I mean winning 75% of the games so far will put us at 61 wins for the season...So why worry...Unless of course we are trying to go 82-0..





[Edited by - holfresh on 10-22-2006 8:32 PM]
martin
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10/22/2006  8:36 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by martin:
Posted by holfresh:

Piston is losing by 20+ tot he Nuggets...Billups has 1 pts, Rip has 8 pts, Weed has 4 and Prince has 12...Aren't these guys taking this seriously...Don't they know its preseason and they need to work on their games..Afterall they didn't win it all last year...

Maybe Flip should tweek his lineup...



[Edited by - holfresh on 10-22-2006 8:14 PM]

you don't think there is a big difference between a 23 win team and Detroit?


My point I'm trying to get across is that it's preseason and we can't get rankled when the Celtics go on a run against our scrubs who won't be on the team anyway...If we are going to take it seriuosly then I like where we are sitting..I mean winning 75% of the games so far will put us at 61 wins for the season...So why worry...Unless of course we are trying to go 82-0..

I not so much worried about what other teams do against the Knicks in preseason either, but energy, focus, desire and a smoothly run offense and defense weren't part of the play in the 3rd quarter either, right?

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holfresh
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10/22/2006  8:48 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by martin:
Posted by holfresh:

Piston is losing by 20+ tot he Nuggets...Billups has 1 pts, Rip has 8 pts, Weed has 4 and Prince has 12...Aren't these guys taking this seriously...Don't they know its preseason and they need to work on their games..Afterall they didn't win it all last year...

Maybe Flip should tweek his lineup...



[Edited by - holfresh on 10-22-2006 8:14 PM]

you don't think there is a big difference between a 23 win team and Detroit?


My point I'm trying to get across is that it's preseason and we can't get rankled when the Celtics go on a run against our scrubs who won't be on the team anyway...If we are going to take it seriuosly then I like where we are sitting..I mean winning 75% of the games so far will put us at 61 wins for the season...So why worry...Unless of course we are trying to go 82-0..

I not so much worried about what other teams do against the Knicks in preseason either, but energy, focus, desire and a smoothly run offense and defense weren't part of the play in the 3rd quarter either, right?


They went on a run in the first half after the starters left...When they got back in the game the deficit was so big that they didn't give the effort to get back in the game and I'm cool with that...You pick your wars, it's preseason...Sure they could have played harder once they got into back into the game, but it's preseason still...I prefer to see them do this than to go all out and risk injury when it doesn't mean anything...One guy here is calling for Isiah to "tweak the lineup in a major way" after last night's game...Are you kidding me?...
TrueBlue
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10/22/2006  9:00 PM
Posted by holfresh:

Piston is losing by 20+ tot he Nuggets...Billups has 1 pts, Rip has 8 pts, Weed has 4 and Prince has 12...Aren't these guys taking this seriously...Don't they know its preseason and they need to work on their games..Afterall they didn't win it all last year...

Maybe Flip should tweek his lineup...



[Edited by - holfresh on 10-22-2006 8:14 PM]


Oh my let me show you how you failed at this miserable attempt. From that game only 1 of Det's starters played as many minutes as Denver's starters. Billups played 21min and Hamilton played 15min. Not really a whole lot of time to have any impact on the game. Rasheed played a whopping 8min. It was a 9pt defecit at the end of the 1rst qrt nothing to panic over. Then it turned into a 15pt defecit, still no game is over at the half. Oh and by the end of the game a 15pt defecit ended up being a 19pt loss. Unlike in the Knicks game yesterday a 15pt 2nd qrt defecit became a 30pt 3rd qrt defecit. The starters for the Knicks played almost 30min a piece along with their 6th man.

Once again Preseason means nothing in regards to wins and losses IMO but it does have meaning in terms of effort and execution of the system on both ends of the court.

[Edited by - SeatsBlue on 10-22-2006 9:18 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
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