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Our frontcourt with Frye and Curry really has me concerned.
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wsdm
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10/22/2006  8:42 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by playa2:

Channing frye will continue to get pushed around, the guys gained what 5lbs of muscle up top ?

What he needs to do is get a stronger base, his legs need to get stronger to position himself better in defending opponents or he will always stay in foul trouble.

[Edited by - playa2 on 10-22-2006 8:24 PM]

15lbs, but I agree, it's down low where he needs the weight.
You can tell he's working on it. He made more physical progress this offseason than Jamal has in his 7 years or Eddy in his 5.

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oohah
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10/22/2006  8:49 PM
This nit-picking at Frye is like Ariza syndrome all over again. One summer Frye has had to improve and improve he has. It takes time to become the player we want him to be and that he wants to be.

oohah

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wsdm
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10/22/2006  9:48 PM
I think he can be at least a 15/9 player on a good team and maybe a 20/10 player on a bad team, but I don't think he'll get enough shot attempts to have a high scoring average on this team.
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Allanfan20
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10/22/2006  10:24 PM
I didn't see the game on Saturday, nor the one against Philly, but from what I have seen, Frye has been very inconsistent this pre season. I could care less about his actual rebounding numbers. Those are useless to me. The guy needs to learn to box out and he needs to learn where to be on the defense. His footspeed is slower than I originally thought. Again, I really enjoy Channing Frye, but he's FAAAR from where he needs to be in terms of rebounding and defense. He's not a starter yet.
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nixluva
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10/23/2006  12:03 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:

I didn't see the game on Saturday, nor the one against Philly, but from what I have seen, Frye has been very inconsistent this pre season. I could care less about his actual rebounding numbers. Those are useless to me. The guy needs to learn to box out and he needs to learn where to be on the defense. His footspeed is slower than I originally thought. Again, I really enjoy Channing Frye, but he's FAAAR from where he needs to be in terms of rebounding and defense. He's not a starter yet.

Ummm. The guy is a starter! Just because you want him to do more, doesn't mean that he's not starter material. There are FAR worse guys starting for teams in this league, so I don't really see your point. Let's not forget that this STILL is the preseason. We don't know how much this guy will progress as he plays longer minutes for the 1st time in his career. You also have to factor in the guy getting used to the new system as well.

I get the sense that many of us are showing VERY LITTLE PATIENCE when it comes to our players. Guys like Frye and Lee are babies in this league. They're just getting started. You have to allow time for them to prove who and what they are.
Ira
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10/23/2006  12:23 AM
I'm not concerned about Frye's rebounding. I am very concerned about his defense. We'll get a better idea in the regular season if he's improved, but it was bad last season.

Curry has two problems that I don't think will go away. One is his stamina. He tires quickly and his game goes south. He can't put in the big minutes you want him to play. The second problem with Curry is his ability to think on his feet. He's not now and probably will never be a smart player.
technomaster
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10/23/2006  12:46 AM
Posted by playa2:

Channing frye will continue to get pushed around, the guys gained what 5lbs of muscle up top ?

What he needs to do is get a stronger base, his legs need to get stronger to position himself better in defending opponents or he will always stay in foul trouble.

[Edited by - playa2 on 10-22-2006 8:24 PM]

Just by looking at them, you'd still expect guys like Gasol, Camby, and Garnett to get outmuscled for rebounds. It probably does happen, but they let their height and skill compensate for weight/muscle disadvantages.

Frye's nearly 7ft tall and is reasonably athletic... those two factors alone should allow him to come close to double figure boards with f/t minutes.
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nixluva
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10/23/2006  12:52 AM
Posted by Ira:

I'm not concerned about Frye's rebounding. I am very concerned about his defense. We'll get a better idea in the regular season if he's improved, but it was bad last season.

Curry has two problems that I don't think will go away. One is his stamina. He tires quickly and his game goes south. He can't put in the big minutes you want him to play. The second problem with Curry is his ability to think on his feet. He's not now and probably will never be a smart player.

Perhaps, but I remind everyone that Curry is practically the same exact age as Frye. It seems hard to show patience with a guy who has been in the league as long as Curry, but those years are an illusion. If the league had an NBDL back then he might have spent some time there. At the very least it's clear that Curry never learned the fundamentals or mental aspects of the game. He's like a kid that just got promoted from grade to grade even tho he didn't actually pass the courses. It's very difficult to learn the basics of math or english in college or in the real world work place. that's why the league has gone thru the trouble of creating a minor league. Now it's a bit too late for Curry, but to expect him to put all the pieces together at this stage is being naive to his level of training at the grade and highschool level. It's likely they never really taught him much, except get the ball and dunk it. So he's behind, but expected to grasp it all at the pro level.

I think that he can get it, but it may take a while yet to fully sink in.
fishmike
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10/23/2006  7:26 AM
Posted by oohah:

This nit-picking at Frye is like Ariza syndrome all over again. One summer Frye has had to improve and improve he has. It takes time to become the player we want him to be and that he wants to be.

oohah
I think the thing to look at is that Frye's playing out of position. Do we still think he's fast/athletic enough for PF in this league?

Did I just see a playa2 sighting??????

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playa2
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10/23/2006  8:01 AM
Posted by technomaster:
Posted by playa2:

Channing frye will continue to get pushed around, the guys gained what 5lbs of muscle up top ?

What he needs to do is get a stronger base, his legs need to get stronger to position himself better in defending opponents or he will always stay in foul trouble.

[Edited by - playa2 on 10-22-2006 8:24 PM]

Just by looking at them, you'd still expect guys like Gasol, Camby, and Garnett to get outmuscled for rebounds. It probably does happen, but they let their height and skill compensate for weight/muscle disadvantages.

Frye's nearly 7ft tall and is reasonably athletic... those two factors alone should allow him to come close to double figure boards with f/t minutes.

Techno could this be the reasoning behind frye's label of being "SOFT" ?

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oohah
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10/23/2006  8:11 AM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by oohah:

This nit-picking at Frye is like Ariza syndrome all over again. One summer Frye has had to improve and improve he has. It takes time to become the player we want him to be and that he wants to be.

oohah
I think the thing to look at is that Frye's playing out of position. Do we still think he's fast/athletic enough for PF in this league?

Did I just see a playa2 sighting??????

PF is the 4th most athletic position in the NBA behind Shooting Guard, Small Forward, and Point Guard. Frye has ample athletic ability for PF and he is more athletic and agile than the majority of power forwards. I think you might be judging him by the standard of KG or other "freaky" PF's rather than comparing him to the Kenny Thomases and Tony Batties.

PF is a position where you don't have to be an outstanding NBA athlete to be quite good. Tim Duncan is fairly unathletic compared to other top PF's (By Athletic I mean speed and jumping), but he does okay because he has great skill. Sure, Frye is no Duncan, but he is a highly skilled player for his size.

oohah

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fishmike
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10/23/2006  8:50 AM
he's got slow feet, there's no way around it. Also as the NBA goes to more open styles the requirements change. Kenny Thomas played more SF (and is pretty damn quick) and Battie is a center.

Look at your playoff teams last year
Krstic, Sheed, Gooden, Jermain Oneil, Bogut, Haslem, Jamison, Duncan, Dirk, Gasol, Camby/KMart, Marion, Brand, Kwame Brown, Shareef.

Who is Frye quicker or more athletic than? Maybe 2 guys and thats up for debate. Those are just playoff teams, not counting Dwight Howard, Bosh, David West, Sheldon Williams, Garnett, Zach, Andris Biedrins...

I would say Frye is among the least quick/athletic PFs in the NBA, and of the 30 starters he is easily among the slowest 5.

This is not a knock on Frye as many here will get their panties in a bunch about, rather I'm just saying he's not a PF. He was a 4 year starter at center in Arizona. I'm high on Frye, just not at PF. I think he will be a great high post center in this league, like a Brad Miller or a big Z. The kind of guy that will give you 20 a night at 50% from all over the floor.

I think thats problem 1. Get Frye out of the SL and put Lee next to Curry. There is NO reason that Frye cant get 30 minutes off the bench as the primary backup C and playing PF against the other team's bench.

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oohah
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10/23/2006  9:30 AM
Krstic, Sheed, Gooden, Jermain Oneil, Bogut, Haslem, Jamison, Duncan, Dirk, Gasol, Camby/KMart, Marion, Brand, Kwame Brown, Shareef.

Who is Frye quicker or more athletic than? Maybe 2 guys and thats up for debate. Those are just playoff teams, not counting Dwight Howard, Bosh, David West, Sheldon Williams, Garnett, Zach, Andris Biedrins...


Battie is listed as a F/C. He is really a PF who has had to play a lot of center in his time. He is definitely not a natural center, and he gets overwhelmed a lot because of it.

***

I would say Frye is equal to or a better athlete than: Krstic, Gooden, Bogut, Dirk, Gasol, Kwame Brown, Haslem. Also Boozer, Randolph, Murphy, KT, and others.

Check out this list: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players?type=position&c=NBA&pos=PF This is not an exhastive list. I think Frye stacks up quite well in athletic ability and he is more skilled than most of them:


 Malik Allen  	PF  	Chicago Bulls
 Maceo Baston 	PF 	Indiana Pacers
 Elton Brand 	PF 	Los Angeles Clippers
 Brian Cook 	PF 	Los Angeles Lakers
 Austin Croshere 	PF 	Dallas Mavericks
 Kaniel Dickens 	PF 	Atlanta Hawks
 Reggie Evans 	PF 	Denver Nuggets
 Drew Gooden 	PF 	Cleveland Cavaliers
 Udonis Haslem 	PF 	Miami Heat
 Alan Henderson 	PF 	Philadelphia 76ers
 Robert Horry 	PF 	San Antonio Spurs
 Dwight Howard 	PF 	Orlando Magic
 Al Jefferson 	PF 	Boston Celtics
 Kenyon Martin 	PF 	Denver Nuggets
 Sean May 	PF 	Charlotte Bobcats
 Antonio McDyess 	PF 	Detroit Pistons
 Scott Merritt 	PF 	Chicago Bulls
 Troy Murphy 	PF 	Golden State Warriors
 Dirk Nowitzki 	PF 	Dallas Mavericks
 Fabricio Oberto 	PF 	San Antonio Spurs
 Bo Outlaw 	PF 	Orlando Magic
 Scott Padgett 	PF 	Houston Rockets
 Vladimir Radmanovic 	PF 	Los Angeles Lakers
 Zach Randolph 	PF 	Portland Trail Blazers
 Michael Ruffin 	PF 	Washington Wizards
 Brian Scalabrine 	PF 	Boston Celtics
 Jamar Smith 	PF 	San Antonio Spurs
 Joe Smith 	PF 	Denver Nuggets
 Darius Songaila 	PF 	Washington Wizards
 Stromile Swift 	PF 	Memphis Grizzlies
 Maurice Taylor 	PF 	Sacramento Kings
 Kenny Thomas 	PF 	Sacramento Kings
 Nikoloz Tskitishvili 	PF 	New York Knicks
 Rasheed Wallace 	PF 	Detroit Pistons
 Chris Webber 	PF 	Philadelphia 76ers
 David West 	PF 	New Orleans/OklaCity Hornets


oohah

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izybx
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10/23/2006  9:52 AM
I would say that Frye is more athletic then most of the players on that list.
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martin
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10/23/2006  9:56 AM
Posted by technomaster:
Posted by playa2:

Channing frye will continue to get pushed around, the guys gained what 5lbs of muscle up top ?

What he needs to do is get a stronger base, his legs need to get stronger to position himself better in defending opponents or he will always stay in foul trouble.

[Edited by - playa2 on 10-22-2006 8:24 PM]

Just by looking at them, you'd still expect guys like Gasol, Camby, and Garnett to get outmuscled for rebounds. It probably does happen, but they let their height and skill compensate for weight/muscle disadvantages.

Frye's nearly 7ft tall and is reasonably athletic... those two factors alone should allow him to come close to double figure boards with f/t minutes.

those guys have footspeed/footwork where Frye does not.
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martin
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10/23/2006  10:01 AM
Posted by izybx:

I would say that Frye is more athletic then most of the players on that list.

Most? No way. Go ahead and put up your list that contains more than half of the players who are slower/less athletic than Frye.
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joec32033
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10/23/2006  10:02 AM
Those aren't starting PF's. Some of them are straight scrubs.

KG
Dirk
Brand
Duncan-
Bosh
Gasol
O'Neal
Dwight
Jamison
Boozer-
Diaw
Webber
Rasheed
West
Villanueva
Randolph
Emeka
Wilcox
Murphy-
Gooden
Rahim-
Martin
Frye
Kurt-
Marvin Williams
Marshall-
Gomes/Jefferson
Diogu-
Haslem-

I put a Dash next to the guys I think that Frye is more athletic than.
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fishmike
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10/23/2006  10:03 AM
Battie has played center almost his entire career, so I dont know what your looking at. He only played center in Bos while Walker played the 4. He played some PF in Cle next to Big Z, but played center when Z was hurt and plays only center next to Howard in Orl.

Anyway, doesnt matter.

I would say Frye is equal to or a better athlete than: Krstic, Gooden, Bogut, Dirk, Gasol, Kwame Brown, Haslem. Also Boozer, Randolph, Murphy, KT, and others.
I have no idea how you can say Frye is as athletic as the guys in bold. Its not worth argueing. I say its sunny, you say its raining. No point in debating that further. As for Kurt, Zach, Marphy and Boozer those are probably the least athletic PFs in the league. Put Frye in there and you have the bottom 5 I'm talking about. Not including bench players.

Also, I'm not talking about skill, just quickness and athleticism. This is exactly my point. Frye is one of the most skilled young bigs in the NBA, but he's getting hurt because I have zero doubt he's playing out of position.

How would Ewing look at PF? I'm not saying Frye isnt as good as or as skilled as the above guys, only that he's getting hurt playing out of position. Not unlike how playing SF took something out of Spree's game, although the supporting cast was certainly more balanced, on noth ends of the ball
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oohah
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10/23/2006  10:04 AM
Here is my rundown of players he is equal to or better than in athletic ability:

KG
Dirk*
Brand
Duncan*
Bosh
Gasol*
O'Neal
Dwight
Jamison
Boozer*
Diaw*
Webber*
Rasheed
West
Villanueva
Randolph*
Emeka
Wilcox
Murphy*
Gooden*
Rahim*
Martin??
Frye
Kurt*
Marvin Williams
Marshall*
Gomes/Jefferson*
Diogu (Haven't seen enough)
Haslem*

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 23-10-2006 10:06 AM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
fishmike
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10/23/2006  10:07 AM
whatever
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Our frontcourt with Frye and Curry really has me concerned.
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