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article: "outsider" isiah relates to steph
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nyk4ever
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10/20/2006  3:52 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

I couldn't agree with you more...hey, what gives, I'm not really comfortable agreeing with you. :)
Posted by BlueSeats:

Poor Steph wasn't liked on the playground, like every other college star and pro.

Isiah, if you're not gonna dump him please fix his head before his knees are shot.
With all the money this team wastes on players and coaches you'd think they could hire a good shrink....

Whats the deal here RV, you've been agreeing with people you're not supposed to agree with alot lately.
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nyk4ever
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10/20/2006  3:55 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:

Believe me, I'm a lot more open to the possibility that things might go well than you are that they wont.

Great post Blue, but I this line stood out to me, I share the same sentiments.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
fishmike
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10/20/2006  4:09 PM
nixluva, you sound like a Cowboy fan defending Terrel Owens. "But Terrell has been fine THIS WEEK. What's he done THIS WEEK that tells you he's going to be problem. He's been fine, so he will be fine."

I'm with BlueSeats.

I'm totally open to the possibility that Isiah can get Marbury playing better team ball than he ever has, that this group can find some chemistry and play better.

Am I banking on it? Hell no.. there's WAAAY to much history to suggest otherwise, and I'm just a what you see is what you get kind of guy. 3 happy preseason games against teams sitting their best players dont have me running to the mall for new Knick jerseys yet. Sorry.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
nixluva
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10/20/2006  4:21 PM
Posted by fishmike:

nixluva, you sound like a Cowboy fan defending Terrel Owens. "But Terrell has been fine THIS WEEK. What's he done THIS WEEK that tells you he's going to be problem. He's been fine, so he will be fine."

I'm with BlueSeats.

I'm totally open to the possibility that Isiah can get Marbury playing better team ball than he ever has, that this group can find some chemistry and play better.

Am I banking on it? Hell no.. there's WAAAY to much history to suggest otherwise, and I'm just a what you see is what you get kind of guy. 3 happy preseason games against teams sitting their best players dont have me running to the mall for new Knick jerseys yet. Sorry.

It's not that they won games, it's HOW THEY'VE BEEN PLAYING. They did it in Summer League and now in Preseason. No matter what the team's final record will be, this team has shown a consistent style of play that is based on sharing the ball and I think it's too pessimistic to say that it's somehow a fluke and these guys are jus waiting to play some other way.

In terms of history, i'll remind you that the BULK of this team is NEW, having come in over the last year or so. There isn't much history except for the LB tainted season last year. It's clear so far that most of LB's opinions of this team where wrong. They CAN play team ball and so far we have no evidence that they won't keep playing this way and improve in this system and style of play. People want to bring up some of these players careers and how they've never played unselfish ball, well that doesn't mean they can't do it, only that they've not done it in the PAST. In the PRESENT they ARE playing unselfishly.

fishmike
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10/20/2006  4:35 PM
man.. if you could hear yourself. I'm sure the Cowboy fans said that team was new also. Funny how Bledoe is still throwing picks and TO is still a me-first baby. New coach, new team same players.

What happened the year before with Lenny? That history doesnt count? Its impressive that 3 preseason games hold more weight than 10 years.
People want to bring up some of these players careers and how they've never played unselfish ball, well that doesn't mean they can't do it, only that they've not done it in the PAST.
At what point do you say a player cant do something? Its been 11 years for Marbury and 8 for Francis? At what point can I say a guy is a certain type of player and be fair in that?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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10/20/2006  4:37 PM
The worst part about Marbury is he's had stretches of games playing team first ball, and for one reason or another he always ALWAYS reverts to Starbury the loser with the good stats.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
martin
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10/20/2006  4:44 PM
The weird thing for me about the whole Marbury vs Statbury comments is that Marb is not even in a contract year or anything, so there is no reason for him to look to put up stats.
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Bippity10
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10/20/2006  4:50 PM
When we win 6 games in a row it's because Marbs was great and playing wonderful team ball and the glue that holds us together. When we go 17-59 for the rest of the season it's because his teammates stink.

Some of these "optimists" become "realists" when they are talking about Malik Rose or Jalen or JJ. But once a "realist" talks about Marbs they become a "pessimist". It's so weird to me.

I defended Marbs more than anyone here during last year. I still think it has been an organizational/cultural meltdown more than any single player or coach. But even as a Marbs defender I can't deny who he is. I can't forgive him for 10 years of lunacy based on a nice article, or shoes, or donation or 3 pre-season games. I'm sure he's a wonderfully nice person on his own. Maybe more charitable than anyone in the NBA. But on the court he is a bastard, baby that up until the moment he got the coach he has been begging for he has done everything to hurt his teams when they are down. As soon as his teams struggle he has been a key cog in helping the implosion. Then when it all falls apart, like a leader, he blames his teammates and coach. Sooner or later he has to figure it out or he will retire as a loser and guys like nixluva will still be defending him and blaming his teammates.

Marbs, shut your pie hole. Isiah, enough with the Marbs publicity tour. Stop trying to fix his image through the papers and get this guy to help his team win games. It's as simple as that. If he wins everyone on this site will buy his jersey.
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arkrud
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10/20/2006  4:50 PM
I don't agree with this.
This is the breaking year for the Knicks
If they will fall in the same hole like last year the whole thing will be dismentalled including Marbs
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Bippity10
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10/20/2006  4:53 PM
I think what makes most fans happy is that last year's 23 wins wasn't a breaking year. We still need one more year.
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wsdm
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10/20/2006  5:18 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Here's something I'm confused about. Last year he complained all year about not being able to play his game. He wasn't allowed to be Starbury and this was the coach's fault. No freedom to play like he always has. This year he's saying that he wants to subjugate his game for the good of the team. He wants to change his game to fit in the system. If this is the case then what was the problem last year???? Anyone else confused by this?

Not really. Larry couldn't sell the role he wanted for each player to anyone last year. He obviously couldn't relate to any person on the team. Perhaps one coach (Isiah) asks Marbury to make a sacrifice and explains it in a way that makes sense to Steph and the rest of the team. The other coach (Brown) is senile and makes no sense to any of the players. Is it stunning that the players are more willing to follow the first than the second coach's instructions? As I'm sure you're aware, being able to communicate successfully with players is a huge part of coaching.
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nyk4ever
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10/20/2006  5:22 PM
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by Bippity10:

Here's something I'm confused about. Last year he complained all year about not being able to play his game. He wasn't allowed to be Starbury and this was the coach's fault. No freedom to play like he always has. This year he's saying that he wants to subjugate his game for the good of the team. He wants to change his game to fit in the system. If this is the case then what was the problem last year???? Anyone else confused by this?

Not really. Larry couldn't sell the role he wanted for each player to anyone last year. He obviously couldn't relate to any person on the team. Perhaps one coach (Isiah) asks Marbury to make a sacrifice and explains it in a way that makes sense to Steph and the rest of the team. The other coach (Brown) is senile and makes no sense to any of the players. Is it stunning that the players are more willing to follow the first than the second coach's instructions? As I'm sure you're aware, being able to communicate successfully with players is a huge part of coaching.


Jamal Crawford, QRich, Malik Rose, Antonio Davis and Jackie Butler all had NO problems listening to the coach last year.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
nixluva
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10/20/2006  5:37 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by Bippity10:

Here's something I'm confused about. Last year he complained all year about not being able to play his game. He wasn't allowed to be Starbury and this was the coach's fault. No freedom to play like he always has. This year he's saying that he wants to subjugate his game for the good of the team. He wants to change his game to fit in the system. If this is the case then what was the problem last year???? Anyone else confused by this?

Not really. Larry couldn't sell the role he wanted for each player to anyone last year. He obviously couldn't relate to any person on the team. Perhaps one coach (Isiah) asks Marbury to make a sacrifice and explains it in a way that makes sense to Steph and the rest of the team. The other coach (Brown) is senile and makes no sense to any of the players. Is it stunning that the players are more willing to follow the first than the second coach's instructions? As I'm sure you're aware, being able to communicate successfully with players is a huge part of coaching.


Jamal Crawford, QRich, Malik Rose, Antonio Davis and Jackie Butler all had NO problems listening to the coach last year.

Do you have children? If you do and they're teenagers like my 3 kids, you would know that you can't parent them all exactly the same way. Some are easy to get thru to and others are not. Some are naturally expressive and others are more introverted. Some respond to tough talk and others to a softer tone. It's up to a good parent or a good coach to be able to guage what is needed to reach individuals. It's CRYSTAL CLEAR that LB didn't care to try and reach his players. Some guys didn't require much and since he wasn't goin out of his way it didn't matter to them. However it's clear that more was needed from LB and he was up to giving it.

I honestly believe that LB was spoiled by having a team like Detroit. In fact it had been a while since he had a team as tough to fix as the Knicks. He may just have reached a point in his career where he didn't have the stomach for working that hard anymore. He gave up on this team in Training Camp for goodness sakes. That should tell you how little patience he had left for the job at hand. He should've been a man and admitted that he was done and quit, but instead he tried to turn it all around on the players and Isiah. The guys is done and should go on and coach high school ball or something. Unless he lucks into another championship ready team, that doesn't need much from it's coach.

Nalod
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10/20/2006  5:42 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

'OUTSIDER' ISIAH RELATES TO STEPH
By MARC BERMAN

October 20, 2006 -- Isiah Thomas is Knicks coach and president, and yesterday he became the team psychologist in diagnosing why Stephon Marbury has come across as gruff and sullen in the past.

In some wild psychoanalysis, Thomas theorized Marbury put up a "hard layer" around him because as a famous superstar growing up on the Brooklyn playground, he was an "outsider." Thomas said he believes Marbury kept up the shield in the NBA, too, after being blamed for all of his teams' failures.

"I really have a soft spot for him because he's been the kid that loves everybody but he's been kicked around," Thomas said. "At the playground, he's the guy who kind of sits by himself. I was always an outsider, too. It's lonely at the top. Most superstars want to be in the group. Who wants to be alone?"

Thomas and Marbury are Westchester neighbors, their relationship airtight. There's hope this symbiosis will turn Marbury into a champion.

Thomas has told Marbury he's already a champion in life and should pay no mind to the "loser" perception because his teams never have gotten out of the first round of the NBA playoffs. Marbury's summer sneaker tour, on which he sold $15 discount kicks marketed toward low-income households, already has done wonders for his image.

"There's a vulnerable sweet side to him," Thomas said. "Because you're the kid in the park that everybody left by himself, you put on that hard layer, that hard, tough guy. But deep down inside, you're a nice guy. What I've tried to explain to him, it's OK to be the nice guy you really are, as opposed to carry the armor.

"The fight's over," Thomas added. "He's won in life already. Don't accept the tag of being a loser because in the real world and real game of life, you've won big time considering where you started from in Coney Island. It's OK to let that shy little kid come out sometimes."

For his part, Marbury is Thomas as coach. One year after his Larry Brown feud, Marbury never before has had such a close relationship with his coach.

"The road he had to go down, he sees the same thing in me," Marbury said of Thomas. "He has a big family. I have a big family. When they got together, everyone hit it off. That's why our relationship is the way how it is.

"Everyone thinks I have it easier because of our relationship. I have it harder than everyone else. Our relationship is not about basketball, he's changing the way (I am) as a person and a man."


Starbury is a champion in life. He is rich and should enjoy his sucess MONETARILY.

Isiah sounds like Starbury is a freaking head case. NOBODY LIKES HIM CUZ HES AN ASSHOLE!

Nix, The past is the past, if he changes, thats cool, but this guy has done nothing to prove otherwise.

Whats it gonna take to change it???

ALOT!

Its lonely at the top! And he ain't there.

He is rich, which is cool, and in life a lot of what we do is measured by money, but from a fans perspective he is a loser who really is trying to change his perceptions.

How you do that? Sell shoes cheap? AIn't like he's giving them away? Ain't like Nike and Adida's offered him a big contract and he turned it down. Sounds like he is in envy of his little cuz getting a shoe deal so he took the Steve and Barry thing. All he gotta do in my book is donate the profits to charity! That would be cool. Otherwise its not philinthrapic, its profit.

NObody loves poor Steph? HE don't care, he's rich! He can tell the world to go PHuch off, and he has over and over. So I phuched off and I ain't rooting for him other than being a knick. I feel the team is better without him and his selfish act.

I don't like him and I don't want to like him.
nixluva
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10/20/2006  6:12 PM
Posted by Nalod:

[Starbury is a champion in life. He is rich and should enjoy his sucess MONETARILY.

Isiah sounds like Starbury is a freaking head case. NOBODY LIKES HIM CUZ HES AN ASSHOLE!

Nix, The past is the past, if he changes, thats cool, but this guy has done nothing to prove otherwise.

Whats it gonna take to change it???

ALOT!

Its lonely at the top! And he ain't there.

He is rich, which is cool, and in life a lot of what we do is measured by money, but from a fans perspective he is a loser who really is trying to change his perceptions.

How you do that? Sell shoes cheap? AIn't like he's giving them away? Ain't like Nike and Adida's offered him a big contract and he turned it down. Sounds like he is in envy of his little cuz getting a shoe deal so he took the Steve and Barry thing. All he gotta do in my book is donate the profits to charity! That would be cool. Otherwise its not philinthrapic, its profit.

NObody loves poor Steph? HE don't care, he's rich! He can tell the world to go PHuch off, and he has over and over. So I phuched off and I ain't rooting for him other than being a knick. I feel the team is better without him and his selfish act.

I don't like him and I don't want to like him.

You don't have to like him. I like him as a player. Personally I don't know him and don't care to know him. I'm only concerned with how he plays for this team. From what i've seen he's been the LEAST of our problems since he's been here. If the rest of the players on this team had played as well we'd be a playoff team every year. As it is, you can't point to a player who took responsiblity for his own game and stepped up for an entire season. No one was holding anyone back from showing what they were made of. Steph didn't take very shot in every game or stop players from rebounding or blocking shots or defending. It's never about one player. Jordan, Magic, Bird or Isiah couldn't win games by himself, NO ONE CAN.

All I care about is that this year he's showing that he's only caring about wins. He's not taking a ton of shots and he's passing the ball. What else can he do at this point. He's proving true to his words so far. I have no reason to believe that he won't continue to do it. The past has NOTHING to do with the present. People said this team was too stupid and stubborn to play the way they're playing now. I was told that they couldn't run a motion offense. Well ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE WERE DEAD WRONG!!!! Under Isiah it's been consistent from Summer League thru Preseason. The players are doing exactly what Isiah set out to do. PLAYING WITH UNITY, SHARING and MOVING as a TEAM.

TrueBlue
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10/20/2006  7:41 PM
So how many other players in the NBA have won in life? Have they all won because they are rich? Are there plenty of losers in the NBA? I don't get it.

Isiah is the biggest hypocrite of them all because last yr in a December interview he said that he would back Larry, and players namely Marbury, better be mentally tough because Larry challenges players. So Marbury concluded last yr he was a better man after the ordeal, although his actions all along and even as recent in the SL, when he acted like a drunk moron spewing garbage, proved otherwise

Now we're reading about Zeke being his personal psychologist, because the dude after 10yrs of professional BB feels like a lonely little Biitch.


Unreal!

[Edited by - SeatsBlue on 10-20-2006 7:12 PM]

[Edited by - SeatsBlue on 10-20-2006 7:22 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
wsdm
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10/20/2006  10:13 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by Bippity10:

Here's something I'm confused about. Last year he complained all year about not being able to play his game. He wasn't allowed to be Starbury and this was the coach's fault. No freedom to play like he always has. This year he's saying that he wants to subjugate his game for the good of the team. He wants to change his game to fit in the system. If this is the case then what was the problem last year???? Anyone else confused by this?

Not really. Larry couldn't sell the role he wanted for each player to anyone last year. He obviously couldn't relate to any person on the team. Perhaps one coach (Isiah) asks Marbury to make a sacrifice and explains it in a way that makes sense to Steph and the rest of the team. The other coach (Brown) is senile and makes no sense to any of the players. Is it stunning that the players are more willing to follow the first than the second coach's instructions? As I'm sure you're aware, being able to communicate successfully with players is a huge part of coaching.


Jamal Crawford, QRich, Malik Rose, Antonio Davis and Jackie Butler all had NO problems listening to the coach last year.

And 60% of those players had disaster seasons. The worse you play, the better you get along with Larry. It all makes sense now!
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Rich
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10/20/2006  10:18 PM
I think Isiah would still trade him in the right deal.
SugarRayRichardson
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10/20/2006  11:55 PM
Posted by Rich:

I think Isiah would still trade him in the right deal.

He would in a second if anyone would actually offer something that didnt make us worse
I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
CrushAlot
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10/21/2006  2:17 AM
I am sure Soda Pop and Ponyboy have his back.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
article: "outsider" isiah relates to steph

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