Posted by PresIke:

Posted by fishmike:

not winning a title hurts, but it doesnt mean your not a winner. To me its as simple as a player I can be proud to say I'm a fan of.
Spree was knucklehead but his took pride in his play
Houston was a choir boy but his clutch shooting spoke for itself
Ewing left everything on the floor everytime he played
Oakley.. see Ewing. Never took crap, made sure you know who owned the paint
Starks was out of control at times, but it was because he was so intense. He hated losing, hated being beaten by anyone

Few people killed Kurt around here more than myself, but he played as hard as anyone. He came into camp ready to play. He worked hard to add more range on that jumper, so slim down or beef up as his role dictated. He was a true pro.. just not franchise frontcourt player, which was what we needed.

Ward had no talent. I mean he was PG that couldnt pass or dribble, but he hit some big 3's and played his tail off on D. That was something you could be proud of.

All those guys observed the no layup rule!

Nobody called other players Fugazi from the injured list!

Nobody scowled when help D didnt come after they got burned off dribble, or wrote all alone on their sneakers.

None of them quit on their coach, despite the league's most grueling practices and the most boring offenses

Pretty straightforward for this fan... nobody talked about "talent" they went out and played harder than the other team.

I agree with some of what you said, but I can see some ways things are not quite as romantic as they may seem.

I have to disagree with the notion that none of those players sabatoged the coach, especially Ewing (who is my favorite Knick, btw), when things didn't go their way. Ewing essentially had Don Nelson fired, when he had the offense go through Mason in 1995-1996 season.

Let's not re-write history here, or ignore all of the naysayer Knick fans that existed during those days because they thought the team would never get over the hump or that Ewing was a "black hole" or that Ward, and co. were ruining the team because of their lack of talent. After Ewing left this team had plenty of "hard workers" but were awful as well.

I have zero amount of nostalgia for the ShandonEisleySpoon/Layden days which preceeded today's team, and were an hommage to the old Knick traditions of "hard working/blue collar" players. Those teams were not only bad but boring as hell to watch and had no chance of suddenly being a contender. I'm not saying that I even like everything about the current team, but this "true Knick" thing is flat out ridiculous.

It's the same nonsense that goes around about A-Rod not being a Yankee and other examples of this kind of NY fan arrogance that drive me nuts, even as a lifetime NYer.

Marbury nor Isiah may do the right thing, but they are Knicks, whether you like them or not. Sure, I have BIG problems with some of what they have done, and might be ready to see them go, if they can't prove themselves this season, but let's not over-romanticize some of the way things were then because plenty of people were unhappy and complaining then about many of those guys, and the Knicks.

In fairness, it was probably better then, I certainly agree with you in that regard, and that many of those guys did play with heart and intensity that seems to be missing from too many Knicks now. I guess I just grow tired of the purely negative comments from some who appear to have a purely defeatest attitude of the team. I can see why that is, and I have been critical of the team but in the end I hope all of us would like to see this team win, even if it with the guys we have now.

I agree with most everythig you said. My mindstate is Newyork, and the grit an grim of the dirty streets of NY circulate though my viens. With that said, the arrogance of many new york fans really piss me off . Sometimes we come off as if we're this big-time storied team just because we are in NY. The Knicks won 2 championships in the 70's. Whoopty-damn-doo! We ain't the Lakers, the Celts or the Bulls.

We as NY fans fool ourselves into thinking we are the most knowledgable fans. When in actuality, all most of us do is regurgitate the same black and white rhetoric that these self absorbed/and self promoting columnist spew in Newspapers turned tabloids. With countless newspapers in our faces and annoying radio talk show host in our ears, its hard for a most fans to have a clear thought that they can call all their own.

The same fans that scream that Ewing is a true Knick, I bet half of them were the same ones that ripped up his posters that infamous night and threw the torn pieces onto the court. The same fans that booed him and bashed him on WFAN day after night after day. The same fans the say Houston is a true Knicks are the same ones that called him an overpaid softie, called him overrated. The same fans that loved Starks (a true knick) and hated the idea that this former piston was about to take Starks' spot.

The same fans that now say Spree is a true Knick were probably the same ones that hated the idea that the coach choking thug was about to don the blue and orange. I remember the day the trade was announced, WFAN was flooded with callers and host that killed the Knicks for trading for this criminal. Is our history so pathetic, that now we are calling Kenny Bannister and Rory Sparrow true Knicks? What the hell did they ever win? Oh, I forget they played hard. So if playing hard qualifies as being a true Knicks, then is Shandon Anderson a true Knick? he played hard. So did Spoon. I remember Pat Cummings and Scotty Brooks breaking a sweat a few times how about them?

Marbury is from Brooklyn. Grew up a die hard Knicks fan. Are there things about him that rub you the wrong way? Absolutely. Alot of Starks antics pissed me off too. But just because Marbury doesn't exactly meet the standard that most of you have set up in your minds, doesn't mean he aint a true Knick.





[Edited by - bigbeast on 10-20-2006 8:33 PM]

[Edited by - bigbeast on 10-20-2006 8:35 PM]

Posted by SeatsBlue:

Kenny F'N SkyWalker

Posted by Nalod:


Isiah made this comment and it warrents dicussion.

The team never won until 1970 and for years was pretty bad in the 50's and 60's.


The knick Franchise had a nice run resulting in two championships from 1968 thru 1975. The team was very strong. Clyde and Earl played together only 5 years before Walt was exiled. Those were the days!

The team never really contended until the Riley years and we can really say 1992 thru 2000 were strong years. So of our history, some 60 years we can only consider perhaps 20 years of being legit contenders.

So is being a "real knick" a contender or pretender?

We are a proud franchise based on What?