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NEWSDAY: Isiah's got the recipe to get Curry in shape
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Bippity10
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10/16/2006  12:53 PM
I think it's pretty accurate to say that Eddie needs to stay out of foul trouble. No need to take it personal.
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SugarRayRichardson
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10/16/2006  12:56 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

I think it's pretty accurate to say that Eddie needs to stay out of foul trouble. No need to take it personal.

Who took anything personal? EC does need to stay out of foul trouble. So does Frye, James, Lee, and all the other Knicks. My point is its better to foul out of a game than stay on the bench with 3 fouls saving the extra 3 fouls for a game later that week. They cant be carried over to another game and EC only fouled out of 4 games and averaged 3 fouls a game.
I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
nixluva
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10/16/2006  12:58 PM
I think people have to be a bit more reasonable about Curry and what he's going to be able to do. He's not a light guy. He's never going to be able to just flatout bust it 40 minutes. He needs to be on the floor as much as possible and just because he may get fouls is no reason not to play him. If his defense is lacking, you have to start trying different things to get him to understand what he should be looking for when he's out there. Obviously it doesn't come naturally to him. The FIRST step tho is getting him to the point where he can physically be out there longer. If he's more in shape he should perform better and use his hands less on D.

Curry is certainly an enigma but it's just too early to give up on him. We have to keep trying different things and hopefully one day it will click. We know he has the ability, it's really more about consistency.
nyk4ever
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10/16/2006  1:02 PM
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:


Maybe we have to define foul problems. When a guy like JJ averages 3 fouls per 12 minutes its a foul problem possibly. When EC averages 3 fouls a game and rarely fouls out its not as dramatic a foul problem. Let the kid play. He fouled out of 4 games all year. You cant save the fouls for the next game so why leave him on the bench with 3 fouls when you get 6 fouls?

You can't just keep Eddy in the game if he has 3 fouls in the first quarter. We've all seen Eddy committ the offensive fouls that he commonly committs and until he learns to stop committing those fouls, he is going to have to be taken out of the game, it's that simple. You can't just use him in the 1st quarters, it would be nice to have our 10million dollar year a player available in the 4th quarter and maybe even overtime!
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Bippity10
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10/16/2006  1:02 PM
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:
Posted by Bippity10:

I think it's pretty accurate to say that Eddie needs to stay out of foul trouble. No need to take it personal.

Who took anything personal? EC does need to stay out of foul trouble. So does Frye, James, Lee, and all the other Knicks. My point is its better to foul out of a game than stay on the bench with 3 fouls saving the extra 3 fouls for a game later that week. They cant be carried over to another game and EC only fouled out of 4 games and averaged 3 fouls a game.

I think with Eddie a lot of times he commits fouls because he is tired and that is why he is taken out of games. He then committs them in bunches. For example he picks up his first two fouls in the first 6 minutes of the 1st quarter. You take him out so that he doesn't pick up a third one and so you have him down the stretch. You bring him back at the beginning of the 3rd and bam he picks up two more quick ones. Now you have to try to save him again. We need the guys post presence down the stretch. He is the key to our team. More than anyone else we need him to stay out of foul trouble and can't afford to have him pick them up in bunches like JJ does. WE can try to let him play through it. This is definitely another method and point of view. But it doesn't mean his minutes will go up. If he is committing poor fouls he will just pick them up and foul out if you leave him in.
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Elite
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10/16/2006  1:02 PM
yup.. the only reason EC should have less than 35 minutes played in a game is it was a blowout or he had 6 fouls
Bippity10
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10/16/2006  1:06 PM
I agree with NYK4eva on this one. Nixluva I think when he is taken out because of foul trouble some people are thinking it's a form of punishment. It's not. It's a coach looking at a player that appears tired has picked up two reach ins or charges in 30 seconds and is going to be incapable of helping during the important part of the game. If he wants more minutes it's on him to commit less fouls and be in shape.
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nixluva
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10/16/2006  1:12 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:


Maybe we have to define foul problems. When a guy like JJ averages 3 fouls per 12 minutes its a foul problem possibly. When EC averages 3 fouls a game and rarely fouls out its not as dramatic a foul problem. Let the kid play. He fouled out of 4 games all year. You cant save the fouls for the next game so why leave him on the bench with 3 fouls when you get 6 fouls?

You can't just keep Eddy in the game if he has 3 fouls in the first quarter. We've all seen Eddy committ the offensive fouls that he commonly committs and until he learns to stop committing those fouls, he is going to have to be taken out of the game, it's that simple. You can't just use him in the 1st quarters, it would be nice to have our 10million dollar year a player available in the 4th quarter and maybe even overtime!

The problem is that this is preseason and it's a good time to start trying to get him capable of going longer stretches. Last year LB didn't have that luxury, so I can understand some of his reasoning. Still he wasn't even going back to Curry in the 4th Qtr, so that blows the idea of saving him for use late in the game. I don't think there's anyway to really make sense of what LB was doing when you look back on his decisions.

SugarRayRichardson
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10/16/2006  1:17 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:


Maybe we have to define foul problems. When a guy like JJ averages 3 fouls per 12 minutes its a foul problem possibly. When EC averages 3 fouls a game and rarely fouls out its not as dramatic a foul problem. Let the kid play. He fouled out of 4 games all year. You cant save the fouls for the next game so why leave him on the bench with 3 fouls when you get 6 fouls?

You can't just keep Eddy in the game if he has 3 fouls in the first quarter. We've all seen Eddy committ the offensive fouls that he commonly committs and until he learns to stop committing those fouls, he is going to have to be taken out of the game, it's that simple. You can't just use him in the 1st quarters, it would be nice to have our 10million dollar year a player available in the 4th quarter and maybe even overtime!

Well you tell me all the games you saw Eddy have 3 fouls in the first qtr and then I'm on board. If he picked up 2 fouls in the first half at all nevermind the 1st qtr we never saw him again till the 3rd qtr last season.
EC will play more minutes this season because he has a coach that doesnt wnat to see him fail. Its as simple as that. He will be given a chance to play thru fouls. He will be kept on the court when he is hot and playing well. LB had his own agenda last season and often Eddy was a pawn in it.
I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
SugarRayRichardson
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10/16/2006  1:18 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:


Maybe we have to define foul problems. When a guy like JJ averages 3 fouls per 12 minutes its a foul problem possibly. When EC averages 3 fouls a game and rarely fouls out its not as dramatic a foul problem. Let the kid play. He fouled out of 4 games all year. You cant save the fouls for the next game so why leave him on the bench with 3 fouls when you get 6 fouls?

You can't just keep Eddy in the game if he has 3 fouls in the first quarter. We've all seen Eddy committ the offensive fouls that he commonly committs and until he learns to stop committing those fouls, he is going to have to be taken out of the game, it's that simple. You can't just use him in the 1st quarters, it would be nice to have our 10million dollar year a player available in the 4th quarter and maybe even overtime!

The problem is that this is preseason and it's a good time to start trying to get him capable of going longer stretches. Last year LB didn't have that luxury, so I can understand some of his reasoning. Still he wasn't even going back to Curry in the 4th Qtr, so that blows the idea of saving him for use late in the game. I don't think there's anyway to really make sense of what LB was doing when you look back on his decisions.

The truth appears!

I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
Bippity10
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10/16/2006  1:22 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:


Maybe we have to define foul problems. When a guy like JJ averages 3 fouls per 12 minutes its a foul problem possibly. When EC averages 3 fouls a game and rarely fouls out its not as dramatic a foul problem. Let the kid play. He fouled out of 4 games all year. You cant save the fouls for the next game so why leave him on the bench with 3 fouls when you get 6 fouls?

You can't just keep Eddy in the game if he has 3 fouls in the first quarter. We've all seen Eddy committ the offensive fouls that he commonly committs and until he learns to stop committing those fouls, he is going to have to be taken out of the game, it's that simple. You can't just use him in the 1st quarters, it would be nice to have our 10million dollar year a player available in the 4th quarter and maybe even overtime!

The problem is that this is preseason and it's a good time to start trying to get him capable of going longer stretches. Last year LB didn't have that luxury, so I can understand some of his reasoning. Still he wasn't even going back to Curry in the 4th Qtr, so that blows the idea of saving him for use late in the game. I don't think there's anyway to really make sense of what LB was doing when you look back on his decisions.


It's not about LB. There was life before LB. This problem and response to his fouls is not new. IT's about his career. This has been a 5 year problem for him. Skiles complained about these same things we are complaining about now. Conditioning and fouls by Curry are the reason why so many people were blasting the trade when it occured. This is not a new issue that started with LB. Skiles handled it in a similar way even going to small line-ups down the stretch. Chicago soon traded Curry. We handled it the same way. My guess is that if Curry is picking up the same silly fouls come midseason that Isiah will treat him the exact same way.
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Bippity10
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10/16/2006  1:28 PM
You are going to tell me that come game 40 if Curry is still consistently picking up the same offensive charge fouls and reach in nonsense that Isiah will continue to show patience and leave him in? I know you guys hate LB so all your thoughts are shaded by what LB would or wouldn't do. But this is not an LB issue. It's a Curry issue. It's about a guy that still needs to get in condition and still needs to work on staying out of foul trouble to help us. Again I know we hate LB and despise him for everything. But Curry's minutes last year were 4 minutes below his career high of 29 minutes per game two years ago. This is not a new phenomenon. It is up to Curry to fix it. IF he doesn't and committs the same silly fouls he has for 5 years Isiah will go small too. Isiah has the talent to do it. He can go three guards and use Jeffries and Frye at the 5, so don't be surprised.

Curry must change. It's on him. No more excuses. He must get in shape and stop the fouls. It's not the coach's fault. It is him.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 10-16-2006 1:29 PM]
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SugarRayRichardson
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10/16/2006  1:29 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:


Maybe we have to define foul problems. When a guy like JJ averages 3 fouls per 12 minutes its a foul problem possibly. When EC averages 3 fouls a game and rarely fouls out its not as dramatic a foul problem. Let the kid play. He fouled out of 4 games all year. You cant save the fouls for the next game so why leave him on the bench with 3 fouls when you get 6 fouls?

You can't just keep Eddy in the game if he has 3 fouls in the first quarter. We've all seen Eddy committ the offensive fouls that he commonly committs and until he learns to stop committing those fouls, he is going to have to be taken out of the game, it's that simple. You can't just use him in the 1st quarters, it would be nice to have our 10million dollar year a player available in the 4th quarter and maybe even overtime!

The problem is that this is preseason and it's a good time to start trying to get him capable of going longer stretches. Last year LB didn't have that luxury, so I can understand some of his reasoning. Still he wasn't even going back to Curry in the 4th Qtr, so that blows the idea of saving him for use late in the game. I don't think there's anyway to really make sense of what LB was doing when you look back on his decisions.


It's not about LB. There was life before LB. This problem and response to his fouls is not new. IT's about his career. This has been a 5 year problem for him. Skiles complained about these same things we are complaining about now. Conditioning and fouls by Curry are the reason why so many people were blasting the trade when it occured. This is not a new issue that started with LB. Skiles handled it in a similar way even going to small line-ups down the stretch. Chicago soon traded Curry. We handled it the same way. My guess is that if Curry is picking up the same silly fouls come midseason that Isiah will treat him the exact same way.


His minutes went up basically every year as a Bull as did his scoring. I only say basically because his last year the mpg were squed a bit by a couple of games he had to come out with almost no time played based on injury/heart. He played 29mpg under Skiles. In fact Curry was 2nd on the whole Bulls team in minutes played under Skiles so thats a real red herring. EC's minutes/scoring only really declined under LB.
I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
SugarRayRichardson
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10/16/2006  1:31 PM
Somebody bench Shaq fast please. He still picks up the same offensive fouls that he did years ago!
I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
nyk4ever
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10/16/2006  1:46 PM
EC's minutes/scoring declined last year becuase he had a heart condition, he came to camp fat as Rosanne Bahr. So now your telling me the only way for him to get back into shape is to put him on the court while he is committs fouls that are a result of conditioning? This doesn't just affect EC, this affects the whole team. How many guys do you think are going to like the idea of Eddy being out on the court while he is struggling to get up the court and once he does, committing fouls because he's not conditioned properly?

This isn't on any coach, or any previous coach, this is on EDDY CURRY. Get your fat ass in shape and no one even talks about this subject. It shouldn't be the job of the coach to get inshape during meaningful games becuase the guy was too busy living the life in the offseason. Last I checked, Eddy could have been doing this all summer in live game action where the games meant nothing.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 10-16-2006 1:48 PM]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
SugarRayRichardson
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10/16/2006  1:53 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

EC's minutes/scoring declined last year becuase he had a heart condition, he came to camp fat as Rosanne Bahr. So now your telling me the only way for him to get back into shape is to put him on the court while he is committs fouls that are a result of conditioning? This doesn't just affect EC, this affects the whole team. How many guys do you think are going to like the idea of Eddy being out on the court while he is struggling to get up the court and once he does, committing fouls because he's not conditioned properly?
This isn't on any coach, or any previous coach, this is on EDDY CURRY. Get your fat ass in shape and no one even talks about this subject. It shouldn't be the job of the coach to get inshape during meaningful games becuase the guy was too busy living the life in the offseason. Last I checked, Eddy could have been doing this all summer in live game action where the games meant nothing.
[Edited by - nyk4ever on 10-16-2006 1:48 PM]

Getting in shape is on EC. But to act like LB's agenda did not effect EC or any other Knicks minutes/production last year is wrong. Almost every Knicks vets minutes and scoring went down under LB. It was obvious at times he had an agenda that had more to do with making Isiah/player look bad than winning. Does that excuse EC for not being in great shape? No it doesnt. But it does explain how a kid who scores 12 pts on 5 shots with 4 rebs in 5 minutes with 2 blocks- 1 foul gets benched for 25 real time minutes after dominating the start of a game on both ends of the court.

I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
nyk4ever
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10/16/2006  1:59 PM
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:



Getting in shape is on EC. But to act like LB's agenda did not effect EC or any other Knicks minutes/production last year is wrong. Almost every Knicks vets minutes and scoring went down under LB. It was obvious at times he had an agenda that had more to do with making Isiah/player look bad than winning. Does that excuse EC for not being in great shape? No it doesnt. But it does explain how a kid who scores 12 pts on 5 shots with 4 rebs in 5 minutes with 2 blocks- 1 foul gets benched for 25 real time minutes after dominating the start of a game on both ends of the court.

I understand what you are saying but I don't understand how this is relative to the topic title. "Isiah's got the recipe to get Curry in shape"
There are 2 things that will get Curry in shape and they rely on each other.

1. Better conditioning in the offseason
2. Not committing the stupid fouls he committs which, in turn, will leave him on the floor longer.

Larry Brown has nothing to do with either of those and neither does Isiah Thomas.

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Bippity10
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10/16/2006  2:02 PM
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:

Somebody bench Shaq fast please. He still picks up the same offensive fouls that he did years ago!

Again I know this comes down to your hatred for LB. His minutes have not changed in three years. They've actually declined for the past three years going from 30 to 29 to 26. But generally in the same ball park. He has been the best big man on his squad since his rookie season yet still struggles to break 30 minutes. Now we can argue that LB was not patient with him and cut his minutes back by four minutes per game. This is fair. But does it change the original point that up until this year Curry has struggled with fouls probably the result of conditioning?

Quick search on Google for Curry, Skiles and fouls will bring up a ton of games where Curry picked up early fouls and was "limited to x minutes"
Curry drew his fourth foul at the 8:05 mark of the third quarter and didn't play again. He didn't attempt a shot and failed to score in the second half.

"They did a good job inside of frustrating me and baiting me into fouls," Curry said. "A couple of those fouls could have gone either way."

Skiles said Curry didn't play again because he wanted to use a small, pressing lineup to create havoc in a come-from-behind bid.

This is another game:
That is the proper description of Curry, a diminishing factor in an ambitious playoff dream. Tired of watching half a player, Skiles benched him for all but three second-half minutes in two weekend losses before relenting Monday night. Playing the entire third quarter and a chunk of the fourth, Curry managed 16 points and seven rebounds -- and, of course, seven turnovers -- in a 90-85 win over the lowly Milwaukee Bucks. It was typical Curry, producing as many turnovers as rebounds. How will he play next time? That is always the question, which is why Skiles played a necessary head game that led to yet another Curry flap Monday. The shakeup in minutes prompted the 22-year-old project to speak out in a wounded tone that sounded familiar to his November trade demands, which were voiced by his mother and agents but reflected Curry's emotions.

Yet another article
There are a lot of things Eddy Curry was not when he was with the Bulls. Consistent, in shape, aggressive, those come to mind first. But one thing was certain, rain or shine, win or loss, Curry was big.

Scott Skiles, forever criticizing Curry's willingness to, you know, jump for a rebound, might not. He prefers players, even if they are undersized, who hustle and play defense, both areas Curry struggled to grasp in his four star-crossed seasons with the Bulls.

Great quote by Skiles after he benched Curry in the fourth after more foul trouble

When coach and player met in the video room earlier in the day to discuss the published reports, Skiles hardly draped a warm blanket over Curry. "What Eddy got from me is what we tell our sons: Don't blame other people," Skiles said. "I had that advice when I was young, and thank God I did."



There were many more articles but I didn't want to post them for fear of someone saying this was a Eddie Curry bashing session and that I hate Curry and have given up on him and want him to die. The reality is he has had two coaches that have tried to make him accountable and get the most of his talent. He hasn't yet. This is his fault, noone elses. Coach's don't bench their best players for no reason. This is high school BS. this is what high school kids that can't play or have bad attitudes say to explain why they aren't playing. Coach's want the best line-up on the floor. When you do that, you play. Eddie needs to get in shape and stop committing poor fouls. When he does he will get 35 minutes per game. Not before. Stop making excuses and just get your asse in shape and play hard and magically the rest will take care of itself.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 10-16-2006 2:06 PM]
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SugarRayRichardson
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10/16/2006  2:05 PM
Too long for me to read. Sorry. :)
I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
Bippity10
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10/16/2006  2:12 PM
I'll summarize: LB is not the only one to try to teach Curry the importance of discipline.
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NEWSDAY: Isiah's got the recipe to get Curry in shape

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