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knicks dont need a point guard
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oohah
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10/15/2006  12:28 AM
Clyde's probably fogotten more about NBA basketball, than I'll know, but that comparison seems like a reach to me. Jax was a decent athlete when he came into the league, but still not great. He was slow, and got into the lane more because of his great ball handling than anything else, IMO.

You are right. Jackson was below average for an NBA guard, but pretty athletic for regular joes.
Now that is one kid I can compare to Jax. Another is Tinsley. But back to Williams, he was a great floor general along with being a superior athlete(hence why he went #2). Right now I think he can be a very good backup. Once he gets used to his limited abilities and starts using his head, I think he'll be an above average starter.

I hope you are right about Williams Joe. I'd like to see both he and D. Wagner make big comebacks.

oohah

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joec32033
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10/15/2006  12:34 AM
Posted by oohah:
Clyde's probably fogotten more about NBA basketball, than I'll know, but that comparison seems like a reach to me. Jax was a decent athlete when he came into the league, but still not great. He was slow, and got into the lane more because of his great ball handling than anything else, IMO.

You are right. Jackson was below average for an NBA guard, but pretty athletic for regular joes.
Now that is one kid I can compare to Jax. Another is Tinsley. But back to Williams, he was a great floor general along with being a superior athlete(hence why he went #2). Right now I think he can be a very good backup. Once he gets used to his limited abilities and starts using his head, I think he'll be an above average starter.

I hope you are right about Williams Joe. I'd like to see both he and D. Wagner make big comebacks.

oohah

Wagner relied alot more on his atleticism, and needed his speed. His size plus his injury is a huge detriment. Williams is also a much better fundamental player than Wagner. I think he is gonna have a much steeper hill to climb. I think Wagner will fill a Bobby Jackson type role well, but I don't think he'll ever be better than a step below average starter, but a decent guy off the bench.
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Silverfuel
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10/15/2006  10:43 AM
Posted by Ira:

He was only even available where we picked because of character issues. Drafting a player with a personal history like his is a risk. Teams before us didn't take that risk.
Good post Ira and I agree! We don't need anymore players with questionable characters on the Knicks. The way I see it, Frye, Lee, Nate are all quality team players so we keep going in that direction. One bad apple could ruin it pretty fast!! Why nitpick with the draft? The one thing that Isiah has proven he is good at is drafting. I trust him, I guess joe doesn't.
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joec32033
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10/15/2006  11:48 AM
The one thing that Isiah has proven he is good at is drafting. I trust him, I guess joe doesn't.

Do I trust him? Sure. But why settle for Balkman when you could have had Ty Thomas? Settle for Ariza when we could have had Jefferson, Josh Smith, or Jameer Nelson?

Isiah gets good players for where he is in relation to the draft. Got a pick in the second round-great, Isiah is your guy. But why give up a shot at good pick in the top 10 (hey there are better players at the top of the draft)for a good pick at 29. I'd much better Isiah drafts a kid that has franchise or All-Star talent than just a guy who will fit a role at the bottom of the first.

I posted a while ago that it is weird that alot of stars come from the bottom end of the draft and I still believe that. And I know it goes in conflict with what I am saying now, but here me out.

Swapping a first for a first(especially an early first for a late first), Now if the deal was if Chicago swaps picks than we get an extra second rounder this year and next, I'd be cool with that. Because we are giving up quality for more chances to hit something with Isiah running the draft. That didn't happen. The fact that Curry doesn't seem to be progressing is also playing a factor in this.

I know that's hindsight but Isiah hung his ass out a little too far on this one, IMO.

[Edited by - joec32033 on 10-15-2006 11:49 AM]
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rvhoss
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10/15/2006  1:09 PM
settle for ariza? we only had a second round pick in that draft.

joey joe joe...you're starting to talk crazy.
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joec32033
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10/15/2006  2:04 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

settle for ariza? we only had a second round pick in that draft.

joey joe joe...you're starting to talk crazy.

Why did we only have a second round pick? Oh yeah, we gave up a couple first rounders in the Marbuy trade...oh wait, don't we STILL owe them one? Or was that the one they gave back to us for taking on Q's back?

We could have had any of the guys I said, but we had to settle for Ariza-a nice player but nowhere near the players we had to pass on because we didn't have a pick.

This is reality, bro.
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rvhoss
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10/15/2006  4:31 PM
ariza begat francis
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EnySpree
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10/15/2006  4:40 PM
All of you guys are all over the place.

Again Marcus was passed by 19 other teams. I think Marcus and mark jax are very similiar when mark came in the league. Back in the day mark used to dunk all the time in his first 2 years. Marcus is a major distributer.

Bringing to my point. The knicks don't need him. Watching that nets game the knicks were moving around like mad men and all the players were making huge passing plays finding each other. Lots of back door and basket cuts. Not to mention the countless fast break opportunities they had.

Anybody even watch the game? I just don't understand how the majority of you still want to debate nonsense when the answers are on the court.
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simrud
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10/15/2006  4:46 PM
I'll agree with you when we do this against an NBA team in the regular season. The Nets have no bench, their B squad is any other teams' C squad, and the Philly game was not on TV, so I can't say anything about it either.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
rvhoss
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10/15/2006  8:24 PM
DO YOU PROMISE?
Posted by simrud:

I'll agree with you when we do this against an NBA team in the regular season. The Nets have no bench, their B squad is any other teams' C squad, and the Philly game was not on TV, so I can't say anything about it either.

all kool aid all the time.
oohah
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10/16/2006  2:18 AM
I think Marcus and mark jax are very similiar when mark came in the league. Back in the day mark used to dunk all the time in his first 2 years. Marcus is a major distributer.

Williams is a good passer, and in that I can see the similarity. I think the real reason he reminds people of Jackson is that they resemble each other physically.

My main point is this: Jackson was a muuuuch better college player than Williams, and it is highly unlikely that Williams will be as good of a pro player.

Tihs is no dis to Williams, it was just that Jackson is one of the best team-runners in the history of the game.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
CrushAlot
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10/16/2006  3:05 AM
I think the Knicks would have improved greatly with Williams. I also think that Isiah is adjusting his style to limit the possesions his point guards. I think Isiah would love to dump both players but has to make the best of it right now.
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knicks dont need a point guard
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