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Someone please explain to me if we are trying to emulate the suns
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gunsnewing
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10/12/2006  3:05 PM
I think Isiah needs to stop making blanket statements and put more thought into what he's saying and doing so he stops embarassing us. like balkman/artest

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 10-12-2006 3:06 PM]
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bigpimpin
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10/12/2006  3:20 PM
Briggs, not today. Please. Thanks you.
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
BRIGGS
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10/12/2006  3:26 PM
Posted by earthmansurfer:

I think people are taking the "suns like offense" statement a bit to literally. Isiah can coach. He just can't trade very well I see the team as being more up tempo / running and taking the easy basket. But, they can shoot, just not very well from the outside. Lets see how Q's back is and if Nate can keep it up. We only need two good outside shooters imo to make it work (like the suns) from the outside. If that doesn't pan out, we can still run and go for mid range or inside shots. I don't see the issue. But, the preseason is sort of part of the plan. Adjustments will be made. We do have players that can run. We have a deep bench to tire the opposing teams with this style.

EMS

You play to the personnel you have. We have two horses down low, one finese, one power. If i had to state LB's biggest mistake last year--it was pulling Curry at times when he started going of to soon. We PAID a LOT of money and gave up a LOT to get EC. IMO we play of Curry Frye and Crawford on unit 1 with one role player and marbury. the second unit is more of a speed unit with lee nate Q and francis whoever is better out of balkman jefferies or rose plays in unit 1 as the role player.
Play off the big 3 in unit 1 Crawford Curry and Frye 28-30 minutes
Change the pace in unit 2 with lee nate Q and francis

it doesnt make sense?
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bigpimpin
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10/12/2006  3:28 PM
Guess Briggs think the Knicks play defense or something.
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
BRIGGS
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10/12/2006  3:47 PM
Posted by bigpimpin:

Guess Briggs think the Knicks play defense or something.

I try to use some common logic here. playing to our strength--meaning utilyzing our big 3 in unit 1 crawford curry and frye with a defensive role player and marbury--pound the ball pound the ball or find the open shooter

unit two speed get up and down the floor with energy.


our defense will be what it is, can only play to our strength to what we have.
RIP Crushalot😞
arkrud
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10/12/2006  3:56 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by earthmansurfer:

I think people are taking the "suns like offense" statement a bit to literally. Isiah can coach. He just can't trade very well I see the team as being more up tempo / running and taking the easy basket. But, they can shoot, just not very well from the outside. Lets see how Q's back is and if Nate can keep it up. We only need two good outside shooters imo to make it work (like the suns) from the outside. If that doesn't pan out, we can still run and go for mid range or inside shots. I don't see the issue. But, the preseason is sort of part of the plan. Adjustments will be made. We do have players that can run. We have a deep bench to tire the opposing teams with this style.

EMS

You play to the personnel you have. We have two horses down low, one finese, one power. If i had to state LB's biggest mistake last year--it was pulling Curry at times when he started going of to soon. We PAID a LOT of money and gave up a LOT to get EC. IMO we play of Curry Frye and Crawford on unit 1 with one role player and marbury. the second unit is more of a speed unit with lee nate Q and francis whoever is better out of balkman jefferies or rose plays in unit 1 as the role player.
Play off the big 3 in unit 1 Crawford Curry and Frye 28-30 minutes
Change the pace in unit 2 with lee nate Q and francis

it doesnt make sense?
So you want Curry die on the court?
He should be used carefully.
With his weight, heart, and other injuries leading from conditioning it is better to measure his minutes.
When he was used for long stretches last season he was almost dead in the second half. And this was where he gat hurt.



"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
TrueBlue
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10/12/2006  4:35 PM
Richardson is like a scared person running through a haunted house at the idea that Steph can actually do this.


But to ask them to do what Phoenix does seems a little much. No Knick knows that better than ex-Sun Quentin Richardson, who is skeptical that Stephon Marbury could morph into Nash, the reigning two-time MVP.

"That's a hard job to ask (Stephon), especially the way that Steve Nash does it," Richardson said earlier in camp. "That's something that Steve has a passion for. He gets satisfaction getting guys the ball.

"He's a lot different than probably anybody in the world. There's been games when Steve scored five points but had 20 assists and he's ecstatic. He's happier than if he had scored 30. People are just not like that."

Marbury certainly doesn't think pass-first like Nash. But the Knicks' ability to play like Phoenix goes beyond their point guard's limitations. They would need a mental makeover.

"The whole key to it is unselfishness," Richardson said. "When I was in Phoenix, Amare might go four or five straight plays without getting the ball. Everything happens so fast, we might shoot threes before he could even cross halfcourt.

"When you play an up-tempo style of game, sometimes guys can get overlooked, or maybe they don't get the ball for a couple of plays in a row. But if everybody is being unselfish, nobody takes that personally. Nobody thinks, 'I'm getting frozen out.' But you have to accept that."

_________________________________________________________________________________


This team doesn't have enough shooters. PHX has about 4 players who can hit 3's at a clip higher than 35%. PHX also plays absolutely no D. So if this team struggles implementing the offense, it's a given the defense is going to be ULTRA EPICALLY pathetic.

Basically get back on D against this team and sagging off the backcourt players, should work everytime against this team.

The team should run the offense through Frye/Curry and have Frye play a K.G., Dirk roll, when it's not ran through him run it through Curry and have Frye play the Rasheed role. The backcourt players should push the ball when they have the numbers, but more importantly establish the halfcourt offense, through ball movement and motion. This team better have a player that can hit the midrange jumper other than Frye. This team is going to be worn out by halftime most games and not have enough defense to pull games out.

[Edited by - SeatsBlue on 10-12-2006 4:32 PM]

[Edited by - SeatsBlue on 10-12-2006 4:33 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
gunsnewing
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10/12/2006  4:50 PM
there's more to guys like kidd, magic & nash than just passing the ball. Marbury is not capable of being that kind of leader. His idea of passing the ball is not taking any shots which we saw last year & not being able to get the ball to teammates in position to score most notably Curry

oh wait but he averages 8assists. what the hell am I talking about right?

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 10-12-2006 4:51 PM]
fishmike
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10/12/2006  5:16 PM
PHX also plays absolutely no D.
you not watching. Nash doesnt let his man blow by him like our guards do, and he runs in passing lanes constantly. He's always in motion on D, not standing and watching. Raja Bell and Marion are excellent defenders. Kurt is tough down there and Diaw is also an excellent player on defense.

Holding their opponents to low FG% isnt their game. Disrupting the offense forcing turnovers is.

Also their late defense is quite good. We do nothing like that.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
earthmansurfer
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10/12/2006  5:26 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by earthmansurfer:

I think people are taking the "suns like offense" statement a bit to literally. Isiah can coach. He just can't trade very well I see the team as being more up tempo / running and taking the easy basket. But, they can shoot, just not very well from the outside. Lets see how Q's back is and if Nate can keep it up. We only need two good outside shooters imo to make it work (like the suns) from the outside. If that doesn't pan out, we can still run and go for mid range or inside shots. I don't see the issue. But, the preseason is sort of part of the plan. Adjustments will be made. We do have players that can run. We have a deep bench to tire the opposing teams with this style.

EMS

You play to the personnel you have. We have two horses down low, one finese, one power. If i had to state LB's biggest mistake last year--it was pulling Curry at times when he started going of to soon. We PAID a LOT of money and gave up a LOT to get EC. IMO we play of Curry Frye and Crawford on unit 1 with one role player and marbury. the second unit is more of a speed unit with lee nate Q and francis whoever is better out of balkman jefferies or rose plays in unit 1 as the role player.
Play off the big 3 in unit 1 Crawford Curry and Frye 28-30 minutes
Change the pace in unit 2 with lee nate Q and francis

it doesnt make sense?


I hear you Briggs. I haven't given it much thought. To be honest I need to watch some sopcast games this season and then I can give better input. I'm up in the air as far as what you suggest. It makes sense, but I think we need to see how preseason goes. I like Curry starting but not sure with whom. Being that he is more offensive I imagine we need some defense along side him. Jeffries? I think I like Fry in the second unit to be an offensive force when Curry comes out. But this is all in my head, in the game chemistry may take over and we really need to see how it plays out.

EMS
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
TrueBlue
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10/12/2006  5:30 PM
Posted by fishmike:
PHX also plays absolutely no D.
you not watching. Nash doesnt let his man blow by him like our guards do, and he runs in passing lanes constantly. He's always in motion on D, not standing and watching. Raja Bell and Marion are excellent defenders. Kurt is tough down there and Diaw is also an excellent player on defense.

Holding their opponents to low FG% isnt their game. Disrupting the offense forcing turnovers is.

Also their late defense is quite good. We do nothing like that.



They have a few individuals who play D but overall their team doesn't put inportance on playing team D. If you have a team that can play uptempo ball or is very strong in the halfcourt game, PHX has no scheme to stop it. Nash has gone on record several times stating that D'antoni does not emphahsize playing D a whole lot. Yes when compared to the Knicks, they apply more effort on D but I was simply making a point that to play their style means the D will be non-existent on most nights.

Oh and BTW here's how PHX stacked up against the league in regards to PA=Points Allowed

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/standings?season=2006 Practically 103pts/gm which was 3rd in the league.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
bigpimpin
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10/12/2006  5:31 PM
Briggs, your plan is ideal -- I am definitely not saying it is but you seem to forget who our point guard is. We have the best point guard in the league in Stephon Marbury. And Steve Francis and Jamal Crawford are chuckers -- whether we want to accept it or not. Frye is not ready for what you may think he is, and Curry hasn't shown he can be consistent. Period.

As much as it pains me to say this, out Frontcourt is NOT our strength ... our backcourt is.

Now the reference I made about the Knicks playing defense is simply this: It doesn't matter what we do on the offensive end of the court, if the Knicks keep refusing to play defense for 82 games then we are always going to give up just as many points as we score.

You can quote me.
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
bigpimpin
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10/12/2006  5:32 PM
Yall keep on thinking Phoenix doesn't play any defense. That is a myth, my friend.
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
Silverfuel
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10/12/2006  5:35 PM
Posted by bigpimpin:

Yall keep on thinking Phoenix doesn't play any defense. That is a myth, my friend.
I might be wrong about this but I think Phoenix allowed close to 104 points per game which was in the top 3. The Knicks werent that far off either btw.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Silverfuel
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10/12/2006  5:39 PM
yup. 3rd most points allowed
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=teamstatoff&sort=pts&league=nba&avg=pg&split=999&order=false&season=2006&seasontype=2
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
nyk4ever
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10/12/2006  5:40 PM
Posted by bigpimpin:

Yall keep on thinking Phoenix doesn't play any defense. That is a myth, my friend.

It's such a myth that the Suns allowed on average 102.8ppg, 3rd worst in the NBA.
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TrueBlue
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10/12/2006  5:55 PM
Posted by bigpimpin:

Yall keep on thinking Phoenix doesn't play any defense. That is a myth, my friend.

They allowed 103pts/gm last yr. There were 22 teams in the league that didn't even allow 100pts/gm.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=teamstatoff&sort=pts&league=nba&avg=pg&split=999&order=false&season=2006&seasontype=2

They were ranked 22nd in the league in stl/gm and 12th in blks
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=teamstatmisc&league=nba&sort=stls&order=true&season=2006

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=teamstatmisc&sort=blks&league=nba&season=2006&seasontype=2&avg=pg&order=true&split=0

17th in FG% allowed and 20th in 3pt% allowed
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=teamstatoff&sort=fg%&league=nba&season=2006&seasontype=2&avg=pg&order=false&split=999

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=teamstatoff&sort=3p%&league=nba&season=2006&seasontype=2&avg=pg&order=false&split=999

So the only thing they did fairly well defensively is block shots.

So back to my original thought. The Knicks have to be so on point offensively for this to work otherwise forget about trying to be like the Suns, because defensively this team is going to look frightening. There is no Marion, Kurt, Amare, Raja Bell, Barbosa, Diaw on this team.

[Edited by - SeatsBlue on 10-12-2006 4:58 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
gunsnewing
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10/12/2006  6:00 PM
Isiah needs to stop talking out of his arse
earthmansurfer
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10/12/2006  6:02 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by bigpimpin:

Yall keep on thinking Phoenix doesn't play any defense. That is a myth, my friend.

It's such a myth that the Suns allowed on average 102.8ppg, 3rd worst in the NBA.

In fairness to the suns we can't really say that stat is completly accurate. They go up and down the court allot more than most teams. That style gives the other team more chances to score. I really doubt a team that runs so much would also lead the league in defense. I would look for something like point differential or opposing teams field goal percentage. Something along those lines. Also, when you are outscoring teams as often as they did, they probably relaxed on D at times, which makes it even harder to analyze thier stats.
EMS

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
crzymdups
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10/12/2006  6:30 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

if it was me, id be pounding the ball nearly everytime i could to curry and frye with JC as mid range and stephon as a slasher/breakdown guy[pass first]
THEN we can have a SECOND unit with Lee at C flanked by Q Nate and Francis

then whoever is better out of balkman jefferies malik etc can play a 10 minute role playing guy on unit 1.

makes any sense?
first unit come strong 28 minutes
second unit plays fast 20 minutes
keeps everyone fresh

I think this is what will happen. Everyone always says they're going to run in camp. Marbury and Francis will pick and pop and S&Rs with Frye, dump it into Curry. Lee, Craw, Nate, QRich, Jefferies, Balkman will run run run.
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Someone please explain to me if we are trying to emulate the suns
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