Posted by SugarRayRichardson:

Nix luva a few points:

1) Minny was not a winning team in Marbs first year. They were 40-42 despite having Garnett 17ppg-8.0rpg and an all star Tom Gugliota 20.6ppg-8.7rpg at that time. If you are going to make a point please at least be honest about the facts.
2) The guy has had 2 winning seasons in 10 years so its a bit hypocritical to cheery pick years to try and portray Marbs as some sort of winner
3) That Suns team you mentioned winning 46 games in his 2nd year there was no big accomplishment. That team won 51 games the year before Marbs and only crashed down in disgrace to 36 wins when Marbs replaced Jkidd.
4) You said you dont care that q rich wanted to beat down Marbs. Thats fine. Maybe it could be called an isolated incident except KT went after Marbs the year before and Kmart also said he would have liked to. When you have more teammates wanting to kick your butt than you have winning seasons in 10 years that might be a problem. Tom Gugliota said his reason for leaving Minny (where he was an all star) was because he couldnt stand Marbs

Posted by BasketballJones:

Let the Marbury Bashing begin.

Posted by wsdm:

Posted by bigbeast:

Posted by BasketballJones:

Let the Marbury Bashing begin.

Begin?! When did it ever end?

hahaha! You beat me to it!

It was very well deserved in the past but this is a new season so people should give every player a clean slate and hope for the best

Posted by fishmike:

Maybe Bonn posted them so I didnt read any... honestly I had no idea this happened.

Just so I dont repost any old news did anyone else want to fight Marbury?

I have on my list
Kurt Thomas
QRich

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by SugarRayRichardson:
ings didn't work out, but it's not like the team was exactly the same and had all the same chemistry except for adding Steph. You guys try to accuse me of leaving out details, but you don't bring in all the evidence yourselves. I wasn't trying to put every last detail in, tho I could. My point was that he get's a raw deal most of the time for situations that weren't always optimal for winning. Even here things haven't been set up for success. There's been a lot of cha
Nix luva a few points:

1) Minny was not a winning team in Marbs first year. They were 40-42 despite having Garnett 17ppg-8.0rpg and an all star Tom Gugliota 20.6ppg-8.7rpg at that time. If you are going to make a point please at least be honest about the facts.
2) The guy has had 2 winning seasons in 10 years so its a bit hypocritical to cheery pick years to try and portray Marbs as some sort of winner
3) That Suns team you mentioned winning 46 games in his 2nd year there was no big accomplishment. That team won 51 games the year before Marbs and only crashed down in disgrace to 36 wins when Marbs replaced Jkidd.
4) You said you dont care that q rich wanted to beat down Marbs. Thats fine. Maybe it could be called an isolated incident except KT went after Marbs the year before and Kmart also said he would have liked to. When you have more teammates wanting to kick your butt than you have winning seasons in 10 years that might be a problem. Tom Gugliota said his reason for leaving Minny (where he was an all star) was because he couldnt stand Marbs

OK Sugar, when did Gugs become an All Star? The very year that Steph got there. He went from 16.2ppg the year before Steph to 20.6. The next year Gug's was at 20.1, but didn't play the final 39 games of the season, so Steph helped that team to a winning record and the playoffs without Gugs. Don't try to minimize what Steph did as a rookie and a sophmore for that MInny team.

In PHX, it wasn't just Steph replacing Kidd:

"A flurry of moves last summer dramatically reshaped a Suns team that had been ousted in the first round of the playoffs in five of the last six seasons heading into the 2001-02 campaign. Jettisoned were Kidd and forward Cliff Robinson and brought in were Marbury, swingman Jud Buechler (who was later traded to Orlando), forward John Wallace, second-round draft choice forward Alton Ford and free agent swingman Dan Majerle.

With the return of a healthy Penny Hardaway, who played in only four games the previous season and forward Tom Gugliotta, who was returning for his first full season after major knee reconstructive surgery in March of 2000, the Suns expected to extend the NBA’s fourth-longest consecutive playoff streak to a franchise-record 14 years.

Posted by SugarRayRichardson:

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by SugarRayRichardson:
ings didn't work out, but it's not like the team was exactly the same and had all the same chemistry except for adding Steph. You guys try to accuse me of leaving out details, but you don't bring in all the evidence yourselves. I wasn't trying to put every last detail in, tho I could. My point was that he get's a raw deal most of the time for situations that weren't always optimal for winning. Even here things haven't been set up for success. There's been a lot of cha
Nix luva a few points:

1) Minny was not a winning team in Marbs first year. They were 40-42 despite having Garnett 17ppg-8.0rpg and an all star Tom Gugliota 20.6ppg-8.7rpg at that time. If you are going to make a point please at least be honest about the facts.
2) The guy has had 2 winning seasons in 10 years so its a bit hypocritical to cheery pick years to try and portray Marbs as some sort of winner
3) That Suns team you mentioned winning 46 games in his 2nd year there was no big accomplishment. That team won 51 games the year before Marbs and only crashed down in disgrace to 36 wins when Marbs replaced Jkidd.
4) You said you dont care that q rich wanted to beat down Marbs. Thats fine. Maybe it could be called an isolated incident except KT went after Marbs the year before and Kmart also said he would have liked to. When you have more teammates wanting to kick your butt than you have winning seasons in 10 years that might be a problem. Tom Gugliota said his reason for leaving Minny (where he was an all star) was because he couldnt stand Marbs

OK Sugar, when did Gugs become an All Star? The very year that Steph got there. He went from 16.2ppg the year before Steph to 20.6. The next year Gug's was at 20.1, but didn't play the final 39 games of the season, so Steph helped that team to a winning record and the playoffs without Gugs. Don't try to minimize what Steph did as a rookie and a sophmore for that MInny team.

In PHX, it wasn't just Steph replacing Kidd:

"A flurry of moves last summer dramatically reshaped a Suns team that had been ousted in the first round of the playoffs in five of the last six seasons heading into the 2001-02 campaign. Jettisoned were Kidd and forward Cliff Robinson and brought in were Marbury, swingman Jud Buechler (who was later traded to Orlando), forward John Wallace, second-round draft choice forward Alton Ford and free agent swingman Dan Majerle.

With the return of a healthy Penny Hardaway, who played in only four games the previous season and forward Tom Gugliotta, who was returning for his first full season after major knee reconstructive surgery in March of 2000, the Suns expected to extend the NBA’s fourth-longest consecutive playoff streak to a franchise-record 14 years.

1) You seem to want to credit Marbs for anything good but blame all his teammates for anything bad
2) Gugliota couldnt stand Marbs. Marbs didnt make him an all star. Marbs is the reason Gugliota said he left Minny.
3) 40-42 is not a winning record
4) Losing Clif robinson while adding John Wallace (barely played), Alton Ford (barely played) and free agent swingman Dan Majerle are not major moves. The only substantial move was Jkidd for Marbs and the team immediately collasped. The record for Marbs changing teams is beyond spin.
His teams get worse and the teams he leaves gets better. There is not 1 single player that has had more problems with his teammates in the whole NBA

Now you just want to take away any good Steph has done in his career. Gugs hated STEPH? Who cares? The guy scored 16.2ppg and then the year Steph comes in he jumps to 20 and becomes an All Star and you can't at least give Steph credit for helping that to happen? The Next year he only played 41 games, but he was the top scorer on the team. Did Steph somehow hold him back? Those 2 years repressented his best 2 yrs in the NBA. Don't try to twist it that he did Gugs wrong in some way.

40-42 was a lot better than the TWolves team had ever done. Before Steph 26-56 no All Stars and No Playoffs. With Steph, KG and Gugs improve and become All Stars and make the playoffs. Can you at least give Steph a little credit for that dramatic turnaround? In the Playoffs they lost 3-0 against Houston and the next year they won 45game and they lost 3-2 to Seattle in the playoffs.

In PHX you have to mention that they not only added those other players, but the return of Penny and Gugs both off of major injuries was another factor. I'm not saying Steph is the greatest, but he's actually had some horrible luck.

There's no way to try and paint those Nets teams as somehow good teams except for Steph. Those teams had so many injuries that they were left with almost nothing. Steph didn't handle things the right way, but the teams stunk.

Here we now have a chance to see more of what we saw when we had KVH & Doleac or last year during the Streak. That is the real Steph. When he's doing all the things he's really good at. You'll see.