Posted by nixluva:

Posted by Bippity10:

Okay but again let's go back to the question. It really doesn't matter what you or I think. In most cases I dont' think playing time is the key to development but with Curry and Frye I agree with you and think it is. Sure these guys may develop if they are given more time but.............Let's say it's 30 games in. The team is 12-18. Isiah is on the hotseat. These two are not rebounding and not playing D. Are you suggesting that Isiah should allow them to continue? For the good of the knicks yes. For the good of Isiah, not going to happen. He is going to do what he needs to do to save his career. And if these guys aren't producing he isn't going to allow them to grow because he won't be around to see the end results. I can't blame him for this. This is the position we put our coach's in.

Our only hope is that these guys get it going well from the beginning so these problems don't crop up. This is part of the reason it's been 30+ years without a title. We are constantly blaming, firing, trading and then starting over, never sticking to a plan.

My only problem is that you're again assuming the worst. At Frye's current rate he would avg 8 rebs in 34mpg. That's if he doesn't improve one ounce this year. Curry would avg 7.4 in 32 mpg if he didn't improve at all. I think there's a chance that they might improve a bit over last year. Curry actually improved last year tho it's not commented on. Its conceivable that both players could avg 8 rebs each and tho that's not very good, that's better than what they did last year.

Posted by crzymdups:

Posted by fishmike:

a lot depends on Curry.. there is no doubt. He's a pretty poor rebounder and defender for his size and there's ZERO chance of that improving if he's fat again.

If Curry is in top shape, not good but really in top form
If Frye (who I assume is our starting 4) can become and effective rebounder and just not let his man go off on him every night in the post

I can root for those guys... Eddie's been lazy but he's a good guy.

Curry is actually a decent rebounder. He's actually good at positioning and leaping at the right time. If he's better conditioned and can stay on the floor for 32mpg or so, I could easily see him cracking 8rpg, which isn't bad at all in 32mpg. His defense is horrid. I don't think he knows what to do yet.

Posted by buddapaw:

Posted by martin:

who is the white dude next to dolan?

I think Eddie Munster has a job with the Knicks check him out sitting next to Nate

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by martin:

who is the white dude next to dolan?

Is that Brandon Suhr?

Nah, I don't see him in the photo, but this is Suhr:

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by Bippity10:

Okay but again let's go back to the question. It really doesn't matter what you or I think. In most cases I dont' think playing time is the key to development but with Curry and Frye I agree with you and think it is. Sure these guys may develop if they are given more time but.............Let's say it's 30 games in. The team is 12-18. Isiah is on the hotseat. These two are not rebounding and not playing D. Are you suggesting that Isiah should allow them to continue? For the good of the knicks yes. For the good of Isiah, not going to happen. He is going to do what he needs to do to save his career. And if these guys aren't producing he isn't going to allow them to grow because he won't be around to see the end results. I can't blame him for this. This is the position we put our coach's in.

Our only hope is that these guys get it going well from the beginning so these problems don't crop up. This is part of the reason it's been 30+ years without a title. We are constantly blaming, firing, trading and then starting over, never sticking to a plan.

My only problem is that you're again assuming the worst. At Frye's current rate he would avg 8 rebs in 34mpg. That's if he doesn't improve one ounce this year. Curry would avg 7.4 in 32 mpg if he didn't improve at all. I think there's a chance that they might improve a bit over last year. Curry actually improved last year tho it's not commented on. Its conceivable that both players could avg 8 rebs each and tho that's not very good, that's better than what they did last year.

Nixluva: I can't beleive we are going through this again but here we go. I am not assuming anything. I am not predicting that Eddie and Channing will or will not rebound. I am raising the question, what if????? You are placing my answers to those questions in your head even though I haven't given my opinion. In that paragraph I even said that the hope is that we start off well so that we don't even have to worry about it. This should clearly show that I don't know how they will do. Based on last year how can anyone????

I simply raise the question so that people can play devil's advocate. To start a discussion. the objective will simply answer the question and give their opinion. Which you did(until you accused me of thinking the worst). Some people answer the question honestly. Others see a question and have such a fear that there will be a negative answer and they flip out. My advice is take a deep breath, look at the question asked and give your opinion. It is okay to look at both the good and bad of the team. Channing Frye was voted by a lot of people as their favorite Knick. He is easily my favorite Knick. When someone gets on his rebounding they are not turning on him. They don't hate him. They are pointing out a weakness. This is okay. To improve the Knicks I hope that the front office is analyzing every thing about the players both good and bad and answering some of the questions I asked, instead of saying everything is great. It's okay to analyze Nixluva. It's okay to give both sides. It's okay to ask questions where the answers may not reflect well on a 23 win team. We will still consider you a Knick fan.

Now answer the question, WHAT IF the team starts our poorly, the frontcourt isn't rebounding and Isiah's job is on the line. Will he stick with youth and development or bench those guys not getting it done in order to protect his job??

Posted by wsdm:

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by wsdm:

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by Bippity10:

Okay but again let's go back to the question. It really doesn't matter what you or I think. In most cases I dont' think playing time is the key to development but with Curry and Frye I agree with you and think it is. Sure these guys may develop if they are given more time but.............Let's say it's 30 games in. The team is 12-18. Isiah is on the hotseat. These two are not rebounding and not playing D. Are you suggesting that Isiah should allow them to continue? For the good of the knicks yes. For the good of Isiah, not going to happen. He is going to do what he needs to do to save his career. And if these guys aren't producing he isn't going to allow them to grow because he won't be around to see the end results. I can't blame him for this. This is the position we put our coach's in.

Our only hope is that these guys get it going well from the beginning so these problems don't crop up. This is part of the reason it's been 30+ years without a title. We are constantly blaming, firing, trading and then starting over, never sticking to a plan.

My only problem is that you're again assuming the worst. At Frye's current rate he would avg 8 rebs in 34mpg. That's if he doesn't improve one ounce this year. Curry would avg 7.4 in 32 mpg if he didn't improve at all. I think there's a chance that they might improve a bit over last year. Curry actually improved last year tho it's not commented on. Its conceivable that both players could avg 8 rebs each and tho that's not very good, that's better than what they did last year.

It really helps to give some perspective when you do the math for people and conert their #s to starter's minutes. Most people don't take into as much consideration as they should playing time when evaluating stats. There's no denying that Frye and Curry can be much better rebounding, but their rebounding last year also wasn't a liability either.

Is this settling or what??? If there is no denying that Frye and Curry can be "much better rebounding" why are we arguing with people that are asking them to be much better rebounders??? What is the argument??? They are not the worst rebounders know to man, but this is definitely an area we need improvement on. We all agree on this but yet still argue about it. Once again I'm so confused at the logic on this board.

I predict 38 wins I'm an optimist. You predict 37 wins, you are a pessimist loser that needs to root for the Nets. It's so silly. The season must start so we can end these pointless arguments and get to some real one's like WHY AREN'T EDDIE AND FRYE BETTER REBOUNDERS???

[Edited by - bippity10 on 10-02-2006 2:54 PM]

I actually see a big difference between arguing someone is average but could be better and arguing someone is awful but could be better. For example, a president whose approval rating is at 50% is average but could be better (comparable to Curry's and Frye's rebounding), whereas a president's whose approval rating is at 20% is awful and could be better (the portrayal Curry and Frye get here). Or if you want to stick to your win total example, a team with a lot of talent that wins 41 games is average but could be better, whereas a team that wins 23 (just to pick a not-so-random number!) games with a lot of talent is awful but could and could be better. Both teams have a lot of work, but the latter has even more.