Posted by nixluva:

You know last year was a down year for Curry, but even still he's not far off from being a VERY productive Center in this league. Its not like he has a lack of ability. I think he's going to be better this year, but then i'm not expecting Ewing or Shaq out of him. Curry avg'd 13.6 pts 6 reb and .78 bpg in only 25.9 mpg.

Now according to the NBA his per 48 min stats show:
Curry was behind only Shaq, Yao, Big Z in scoring at 25.1 ppg
Curry was behind only Shaq in FG%

Now it's his rebounding and blocks that need the most help
His rebounds per 40 min stat is 11.1 in comparison Chris Kaman is 14.0 and Shaq is 14.4
His Blocks per 48 min stat is 1.44, in comparison Chris Kaman is 2.02 and Shaq is 2.76

So clearly its on the defensive end that Curry needs to make the most improvement. Being realistic, I don't expect that he's ever gonna be on Shaq's level but I don't think its too much to ask for him to be about where Kaman is. If Curry can get to a per 40 min reb rate of 13.0 that would be excellent for him. If he can get his blocks up to around 2.00 or maybe just under that, I think that is a realistic goal for him to aspire to.

The biggest part of the equation for Curry is to have a change in mental approach. If he really wants to be a better player then he'll get there. His body has the ability, the limitation is in his head. Just being in shape and getting more minutes will get his production up this year alone. The rest is up to his level of desire.

Posted by bigbeast:

First of Blue, glad to see you cut your umbelical cord from Marburys jock strap long enough to make a logical post. Glad to see you enter this thread rather than stalking threads with Marbury or Isiah's name attached.

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by nixluva:

You know last year was a down year for Curry, but even still he's not far off from being a VERY productive Center in this league. Its not like he has a lack of ability. I think he's going to be better this year, but then i'm not expecting Ewing or Shaq out of him. Curry avg'd 13.6 pts 6 reb and .78 bpg in only 25.9 mpg.

I think this is the problem, last year WAS NOT a down year for Curry, it was right in line statistically with every other year of his career, in both rebounding and points.

Now according to the NBA his per 48 min stats show:
Curry was behind only Shaq, Yao, Big Z in scoring at 25.1 ppg
Curry was behind only Shaq in FG%

Now it's his rebounding and blocks that need the most help
His rebounds per 40 min stat is 11.1 in comparison Chris Kaman is 14.0 and Shaq is 14.4
His Blocks per 48 min stat is 1.44, in comparison Chris Kaman is 2.02 and Shaq is 2.76

I think using the per48 minute stats with Curry is not wise becuase he can barely play 30 minutes a game because of his poor conditioning. I think you have to take his Per Game stats for what their worth.

So clearly its on the defensive end that Curry needs to make the most improvement. Being realistic, I don't expect that he's ever gonna be on Shaq's level but I don't think its too much to ask for him to be about where Kaman is. If Curry can get to a per 40 min reb rate of 13.0 that would be excellent for him. If he can get his blocks up to around 2.00 or maybe just under that, I think that is a realistic goal for him to aspire to.

The biggest part of the equation for Curry is to have a change in mental approach. If he really wants to be a better player then he'll get there. His body has the ability, the limitation is in his head. Just being in shape and getting more minutes will get his production up this year alone. The rest is up to his level of desire.

I agree with this 100% Your right on with this, Curry needs a new approach to the game of basketball mentally which is why I think it's a good idea for the organization to bring back Patrick and have him work with Eddy. He has all the tools to be a extremely dominant center in this league and we as fans naturally hold onto that. I'm not sure if he'll ever really tap his true potential though. I sure hope he does, becuase he will make the Knicks a Title Contender for the next 12 years.

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by nixluva:



The use of the 48 and 40 min stats also makes it clear just what his production level is when he's on the floor. From that you can see that he's the equal of any top center in the league offensively and that's not even the best he can do. Curry has only scratched the surface of what he can be. I'd be willing to bet that this year he's avg'ing 30mpg.

I hope he's averaging 30minutes a game but he averaged 26 a game last year and thats not far off. The most amount of minutes he's ever averaged was in his second year, he played 29.5mpg, he HAS to be in shape so he can play more. I don't think Brown held him back, I think Eddy held Eddy back becuase he was not in shape and alot of times you could see that he was taking HIMSELF out. He would point to the bench, to let them know he needed a break.

I hope Curry is outstanding this year, I hope he plays like the beast he should play like but I can't lie to myself and pretend to know that he WILL do that. I've seen nothing from him his whole career to make me think that he's going to break out this year and be in shape and ready to put up 20 and 10.

Posted by SugarRayRichardson:

Posted by BlueSeats:

I see a lot of quibbling over stats and language, but can anybody tell me they wouldn't have been far more enthusiastic if the article told us Eddy came to camp in superb condition and was embarrassing the Brown kid and anyone else thrown his way?

Last time we heard positive spin out of camp it was that Nate was giving Marbury all he could handle, and you know what, that persisted throughout the season. kookie rookie Nate gave Marbury a significant chase for PT.

Which begs the question why do we need to give up lottery picks for franchise guys who marginally outplay late and undrafted picks?

Sadly I think the answer is that to dolan mediocrity now is more important than contending later.

You expect the NY press to write that? I dont.
The NY Yankees have made the playoffs 9 straight years. The NY press bashes them all the time.
Arod is one of the best players in the game, was MVP last year and the NY press bashes him all the time.

Ill tell you what. I'm not Miss Cleo and I cant predict the future but I do predict Mike Lupica will have a column tomorrow. The negative words will out number the positive in his column by a 10-1 margin. You want to bet on it?

[Edited by - SugarRayRichardson on 09-30-2006 2:57 PM]

Posted by SugarRayRichardson:

The press record and the knicks record is equaly bad. The press likes to jump on the Knicks and kick them while they are down. A lot of that is based on 4 reasons.
1) NY
2) Size of payroll
3) Isiah
4) Marbury

If I was Dolan I'd workout buyouts for every player over age 26 outside of Malik rose and let the press go nuts on that. Yes we would still have cap problems for 3 years or more but atleast we would have a certain direction. We will be 100% rebuilding with youth. No overpaid vets. No cancers.
I'd be happy to watch Jcraw, Curry, Frye, Lee, Jeffries, Nate, Balkman, Collins, and our future draft picks get better as they go. Whats the worst that can happen? We would win 23 games?

Posted by SugarRayRichardson:

While I dont think LB is evil like some posters he wanted to cut Nate. Thats insane. At least trade the guy. LB was not trying to win games. It was clear very early that he looked at this as a season to try and get some other things done. Early in the season I noticed he would play guys that were playing horrible big minutes and only bench them if they got hot (Trevor Ariza). It was like he was purposefully trying to lose games. If he could have traded a certain PG then I think he would have stayed and won next year. But since that PG is untradable he ended up looking like as big a problem.

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by SugarRayRichardson:

While I dont think LB is evil like some posters he wanted to cut Nate. Thats insane. At least trade the guy. LB was not trying to win games. It was clear very early that he looked at this as a season to try and get some other things done. Early in the season I noticed he would play guys that were playing horrible big minutes and only bench them if they got hot (Trevor Ariza). It was like he was purposefully trying to lose games. If he could have traded a certain PG then I think he would have stayed and won next year. But since that PG is untradable he ended up looking like as big a problem.

You'd have to evidence that for me. I think that's something a message board poster threw out there. All I remember seeing was that he wanted to send him down to the NBDL for a spell, which is something I'd have had no problem with.

Posted by SugarRayRichardson:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by SugarRayRichardson:

While I dont think LB is evil like some posters he wanted to cut Nate. Thats insane. At least trade the guy. LB was not trying to win games. It was clear very early that he looked at this as a season to try and get some other things done. Early in the season I noticed he would play guys that were playing horrible big minutes and only bench them if they got hot (Trevor Ariza). It was like he was purposefully trying to lose games. If he could have traded a certain PG then I think he would have stayed and won next year. But since that PG is untradable he ended up looking like as big a problem.

You'd have to evidence that for me. I think that's something a message board poster threw out there. All I remember seeing was that he wanted to send him down to the NBDL for a spell, which is something I'd have had no problem with.

It was printed in several articles about why Dolan had to get rid of Brown after the arbitration was announced. It was obviously after Brown was fired and the season was over. He wanted Marbs, Francis, Nate, Taylor, James and 1 other player cut. No it wasnt Curry.

If it was common knowledge it should be no trouble for you to evidence.

In the meanwhile, this is the article that seemed to be the only one to also have access to Brown's camp. It tells us otherwise:

Brown saw it coming
BY GREG LOGAN
Newsday Staff Writer

June 28, 2006


Larry Brown knew the Knicks wanted him to quit long before the story broke May 14 that owner James Dolan was considering a buyout of the remaining $40 million of his contract. Brown even told team president Isiah Thomas, who will take over as coach, that he believed the Knicks were trying to force him out by their resistance to the changes he wanted to make.

The handwriting was on the wall a few days after the Knicks' 23-59 season ended. On the day after the final game, Brown and Thomas met with beat writers and agreed the team had to change. But a person familiar with Brown's situation said that when they met three or four days later to discuss offseason moves, Thomas said, "We're doing nothing."

Thomas told Brown that neither the midlevel salary-cap exception worth about $5 million nor the $1.75-million exception was available to sign free agents. He said Brown did a terrible job and should focus on coaching the same group of players.

Brown's response was, "You're trying to get me to quit."

In a meeting with beat writers Monday, Dolan, Thomas and Madison Square Garden sports operations head Steve Mills said Brown came to them with a demand to waive or buy out five players with a combined salary of $180 million. A Garden official revised that figure downward yesterday.

The players in question, according to persons on both sides of the dispute, were Stephon Marbury, Steve Francis, Jerome James, Jalen Rose and Maurice Taylor. Their combined contracts are slightly less than $160 million.

But the person familiar with Brown's situation said his request was misrepresented by Dolan and Thomas. When they told him to coach the same roster, he said he wouldn't play Rose and Taylor. Both players are in the final year of their deals and can be traded to teams looking to clear cap space, which is what likely will happen even with Thomas as coach.

Rather than rely on veterans, Brown told Thomas he would play last season's three rookies, Channing Frye, David Lee and Nate Robinson, plus the players they get in tonight's draft and said the Knicks "would be better."

Brown's problems with Marbury, Francis and James were well documented last season, and he undoubtedly would have welcomed a trade for all of them. Whether he asked the Knicks to waive them and eat their combined $132 million in salary is a matter of conjecture that surely will come up during the arbitration process headed by NBA commissioner David Stern to resolve their contractual dispute.

But when Brown was hired 11 months ago, the person familiar with his situation said, Dolan and Thomas told him, "This will be your team." They understood progress might not come easily the first season.

When Brown lost their support for the changes he wanted, he was convinced their only motive was to discredit him and supplant him with Thomas as coach of the players he hand-picked.

In Brown's meeting with Dolan last Thursday, he never looked at the paper the owner had listing conditions under which Brown supposedly could retain his job. That was because it was obvious to Brown that they didn't want him under the same circumstances to which they agreed when he was hired.

The succession to Thomas as coach, Brown believed, was in the works all along. Contrary to one published report, a person with knowledge of the Knicks' situation said Dolan did not surprise Thomas on Monday with his one-year ultimatum to show "significant progress."

After all, the owner would have been violating his own rules against communicating to employees through the media.