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Channing Frye threatens to make all-star team...
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Bippity10
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9/28/2006  4:08 PM
I love Frye. I voted for him 18 times in that failed eliminate players game. I think he has all-star capable talent and an all-star head. But none of that matters. He still has to go out and do it. All the talk in the world on our part means nothing until he is actually an all-star. This is just something the kids do when they want to talk trash to fans of other teams.
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Solace
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9/28/2006  4:16 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by fishmike:

guy plays hard, guy can score.

His rebounding is average and his defense is well below that. I'm not saying it cant or wont get better. When you said all star did you mean rookie vs. sophmore game?



I'm sorry you did not give a good read to my statement. His Rebounding and D were above average FOR A ROOKIE. If you can show me that it was not please do so!

oohah




[Edited by - oohah on 28-09-2006 10:17 AM]

Above average for a rookie in defense and rebounding? Efficiency-wise he's not, when it comes to rebounding, unless you're comparing him against guards, which would be ridiculous. His defense is above-average for a rookie? I see no evidence of that, either. Maybe his defense is above-average against undrafted players who were rookies and failed to last three years in the league.

Ahh, the spinning....
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Bippity10
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9/28/2006  4:18 PM
Frye is by far my favorite Knick. Last year his defense was borderline pathetic. It can get better but we will have to wait and see.
I just hope that people will like me
wsdm
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9/28/2006  7:58 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by oohah:
Posted by fishmike:

guy plays hard, guy can score.

His rebounding is average and his defense is well below that. I'm not saying it cant or wont get better. When you said all star did you mean rookie vs. sophmore game?



I'm sorry you did not give a good read to my statement. His Rebounding and D were above average FOR A ROOKIE. If you can show me that it was not please do so!

oohah




[Edited by - oohah on 28-09-2006 10:17 AM]

Above average for a rookie in defense and rebounding? Efficiency-wise he's not, when it comes to rebounding, unless you're comparing him against guards, which would be ridiculous. His defense is above-average for a rookie? I see no evidence of that, either. Maybe his defense is above-average against undrafted players who were rookies and failed to last three years in the league.

Ahh, the spinning....
My guess is that 1 rb every 4 min is about average among forwards. Why insult him by calling his statements spin? Why not just say you disagree with him?

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islesfan
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9/28/2006  9:13 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by fishmike:

so his shortcomings we can overlook because he's ok for an AVERAGE ROOKIE.

BUT

He's going to be an allstar.

Which is it? Is Channing an average rookie or an all star? All star bigs like Amare, Josh Howard, Elton Brand, etc were good rebounders as rookies. Frye's below average rebounding is just a carry over from his below average rebounding for 4 years in college.

He trys hard but has no idea what to do when the ball goes up in the air.

I like Channing a lot. Glad we have him. Not my first choice but a good choice.

He's a gifted scorer. I mean he's really a superior set of offensive skills, but he's far from a complete player. Guys saying he's a good rebounder or defender are just taking happy pills.

Pass me some.



Okay, fishmike, I guess you are looking for some action, so you are intentionally ignoring what I actually wrote, and making it into something else.

That's cool.

Let me restate the title: "Channing Frye threatens to make all-star team..." The operative word is THREATEN. Which means he does really well, gets consideration, but probably falls short.

Sorry if you think that is not possible, I do. But you should just come right out and say it so we can have an intelligent discussion rather than a sarcasm war.

I think it is unlikely that Sweetney will average 18/12 and 3 blks this season though. () How about you?

Channing Frye was ABOVE THE AVERAGE ROOKIE AT EVERYTHING! Including rebounding and defense.

Compared to the league at large I would say he is an average rebounder and defensive player. BUT THAT IS PRETTY DAMN GOOOD FOR A ROOKIE.

The thing is Fish, rookies improve. Starting out average is not bad. It's good. And average for the league is better than the average rookie. I wish he was a perfect player too, but he isn't.

However he showed much promise, including as a defensive player (Nice shot-blocking), and as a rebounder. As pointed out in another thread, Frye rebounds at the same rate as Dirk and Bosh, who are not great rebounders, but they are good rebounders. And he did that asa rookie who was jerked around.

Some things are good fish. Some things are good.

oohah

So you believe that the 8th pick of the draft was above average compared to all other rookies in his rookie class. Is that really saying something for the 8th overall pick?? Not exactly hanging your arse out on that one. (I'm not sure what that saying means so I really hope I'm using it correctly)

So what all star quality players will have their spot on the All Star team threatened by Frye?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
oohah
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9/28/2006  10:27 PM
So you believe that the 8th pick of the draft was above average compared to all other rookies in his rookie class. Is that really saying something for the 8th overall pick?? Not exactly hanging your arse out on that one. (I'm not sure what that saying means so I really hope I'm using it correctly)

Hanging your ass out there means actually saying something rather than playing devils advocate to people who actually do say something.

The problem is you are adding in all types of qualifiers to bring him down. As a rookie, he did everything at an average to above average rate for all forwards, not just rookies, including rebounding, the league average is 4.8 ,he was at 5.8.

If you or fishmike think that he can average more rebounds than the league average for a forward (As a rookie!), yet still be a bad rebounder, well what can I say? I can tell you the sky is blue then show you the sky, but I can't convince you if you are dead-set on ignoring facts.
So what all star quality players will have their spot on the All Star team threatened by Frye?

I have no idea what this question means. Please rephrase and I will try to answer you.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
oohah
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9/28/2006  10:29 PM
Maybe I want the team to win and Isiah get fired!

That would make me really happy!

That is fine, but if you want the Knicks to win, you are in the unfortunate position of having to root for Isiah. There are no two ways about it.

It's a test of your Knicks-fan mettle. Do you like the Knicks more than you dislike Isiah?

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
crzymdups
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9/28/2006  10:44 PM
I don't think he'll be an all-star. not with howard, bosh, ben wallace, shaq, jamison, jermaine o'neal as virtual locks in the front court.

but I do think his scoring average will be around 17-18ppg this year. I think 17ppg and 7rpg is a decent level of expectation for Frye. I think he can easily score more than that and I wouldn't be surprised by 20ppg at all from him.
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simrud
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9/28/2006  10:49 PM
There is no way Frye makes the all stare team. NONE, NADA, NOPE, is that enough of a stand for you hooha?
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
oohah
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9/28/2006  11:05 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

I don't think he'll be an all-star. not with howard, bosh, ben wallace, shaq, jamison, jermaine o'neal as virtual locks in the front court.

but I do think his scoring average will be around 17-18ppg this year. I think 17ppg and 7rpg is a decent level of expectation for Frye. I think he can easily score more than that and I wouldn't be surprised by 20ppg at all from him.


He probably won't make it, but he will "threaten" to make it. I don't think Jamison or Wallace are locks to make the all-star squad.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
islesfan
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9/28/2006  11:15 PM
Hanging your ass out there means actually saying something rather than playing devils advocate to people who actually do say something.

The problem is you are adding in all types of qualifiers to bring him down. As a rookie, he did everything at an average to above average rate for all forwards, not just rookies, including rebounding, the league average is 4.8 ,he was at 5.8.

If you or fishmike think that he can average more rebounds than the league average for a forward (As a rookie!), yet still be a bad rebounder, well what can I say? I can tell you the sky is blue then show you the sky, but I can't convince you if you are dead-set on ignoring facts.

Huh? I was just wondering why you think it's saying something that the 8th pick of the draft was above average when compared to every other rookie that year. It seems to me that as the 8th pick he would presumably be the better player and afforded more playing time than most other rookies.
So what all star quality players will have their spot on the All Star team threatened by Frye?

I have no idea what this question means. Please rephrase and I will try to answer you.

I think you do but I'll be nice and simplify. With the help of crzymdups since he didn't seem to have trouble deciphering the question.

Out of the following players, whose All Star spot is going to be threatened by Frye:

Dwight Howard
Shaq
Ben Wallace
Chris Bosh
Jermaine O'Neal
Paul Pierce
Antawn Jamison
LeBron James
Vince Carter

Assuming Kidd, Iverson, Wade, Arenas are the guards and Grant Hill doesn't win the voting and they don't pick another center like Ilgauskas.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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9/28/2006  11:26 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by crzymdups:

I don't think he'll be an all-star. not with howard, bosh, ben wallace, shaq, jamison, jermaine o'neal as virtual locks in the front court.

but I do think his scoring average will be around 17-18ppg this year. I think 17ppg and 7rpg is a decent level of expectation for Frye. I think he can easily score more than that and I wouldn't be surprised by 20ppg at all from him.


He probably won't make it, but he will "threaten" to make it. I don't think Jamison or Wallace are locks to make the all-star squad.

oohah

So its "probable" that he's not going to make the team but he's going to "threaten" to make it?

Could you please define what you mean by "threaten".
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Ira
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9/28/2006  11:28 PM
I'll buy the point about his rebounding being ok for a rookie. It was and I was pleasantly surprised by that because he wasn't that good a college rebounder. But his defense was seriously bad.
oohah
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9/28/2006  11:35 PM
Out of the following players, whose All Star spot is going to be threatened by Frye:

Dwight Howard
Shaq
Ben Wallace
Chris Bosh
Jermaine O'Neal
Paul Pierce
Antawn Jamison
LeBron James
Vince Carter

First of all the list is silly, atleast 3 of those guys are not in direct competition with Frye. However, the guy who jumps out at me is Antawn Jamison.

In any case, as much as you may want to tear at my statement without making any statement of your own, what I said is that Frye will threaten to make the all-star team.

I think you know what I mean, but I'll be nice and simplify:

Frye will have a strong season and put up pretty good numbers that will earn him consideration for an all-star bid. Of course he will probably be beat out by more accomplished, or simply better players, but he will earn some consideration.

What do you think? Will he earn consideration? Will he suck? Somewhere in between? Will he improve? Why not hang your ass out and say something?

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
oohah
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9/28/2006  11:46 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by oohah:
Posted by fishmike:

guy plays hard, guy can score.

His rebounding is average and his defense is well below that. I'm not saying it cant or wont get better. When you said all star did you mean rookie vs. sophmore game?



I'm sorry you did not give a good read to my statement. His Rebounding and D were above average FOR A ROOKIE. If you can show me that it was not please do so!

oohah




[Edited by - oohah on 28-09-2006 10:17 AM]

Above average for a rookie in defense and rebounding? Efficiency-wise he's not, when it comes to rebounding, unless you're comparing him against guards, which would be ridiculous. His defense is above-average for a rookie? I see no evidence of that, either. Maybe his defense is above-average against undrafted players who were rookies and failed to last three years in the league.

Ahh, the spinning....



I would say his defense was average for a rookie. Defense is where most rookies take their lumps, even King James. However, Frye did show that he has some nice shot blocking ability.

As I pointed out, Frye averaged more rebounds than the league average (5.8 vs. 4.8) for a forward, so where is the spin? Please illustrate for me.

Just the facts Solace!

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
islesfan
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9/28/2006  11:49 PM
Posted by oohah:
Out of the following players, whose All Star spot is going to be threatened by Frye:

Dwight Howard
Shaq
Ben Wallace
Chris Bosh
Jermaine O'Neal
Paul Pierce
Antawn Jamison
LeBron James
Vince Carter

First of all the list is silly, atleast 3 of those guys are not in direct competition with Frye. However, the guy who jumps out at me is Antawn Jamison.

In any case, as much as you may want to tear at my statement without making any statement of your own, what I said is that Frye will threaten to make the all-star team.

I think you know what I mean, but I'll be nice and simplify:

Frye will have a strong season and put up pretty good numbers that will earn him consideration for an all-star bid. Of course he will probably be beat out by more accomplished, or simply better players, but he will earn some consideration.

What do you think? Will he earn consideration? Will he suck? Somewhere in between? Will he improve? Why not hang your ass out and say something?

oohah

Some consideration? Doesn't sound very threatening to me.

As a 2nd yr player you would hope that he would improve some parts of his game.

I doubt that he will "threaten" to make the all star team over any of those aforementioned players.

I believe he will have decent numbers based on the minutes he will get but they will be soft numbers. Kinda like the ones Charles Smith would put up.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
oohah
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9/29/2006  12:08 AM
Some consideration? Doesn't sound very threatening to me.

Semantic arguments are of the lowest order and do not interest me.
As a 2nd yr player you would hope that he would improve some parts of his game.

If he gets his 35+ minutes a game look for him to improve to 17-18 ppg and about 8 rpg, maybe even more.
I doubt that he will "threaten" to make the all star team over any of those aforementioned players.

Probably not, but stranger things have happened, and this guy has the goods to slip in if others don't have their best season, J.O. is injured as usual, things happen.
I believe he will have decent numbers based on the minutes he will get but they will be soft numbers. Kinda like the ones Charles Smith would put up.

He's better than Smith, but Smith was not a bad player. He was just a scapegoat. And by the way, Smith is one of my least favorite players because we traded Mark Jackson for him. He had bad luck with the Knicks and he got injured a lot. But he was adecent player.

oohah



Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
oohah
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9/29/2006  12:10 AM
I believe he will have decent numbers based on the minutes he will get but they will be soft numbers. Kinda like the ones Charles Smith would put up.

Now that is hanging your ass out there.

oohah
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
fishmike
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9/29/2006  7:27 AM
so we have established "threatening" means little to nothing. Anyway they real concern is why oohah is so preoccupied with my ass or anyone elses around here.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
wsdm
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9/29/2006  7:34 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by oohah:
Posted by fishmike:

so his shortcomings we can overlook because he's ok for an AVERAGE ROOKIE.

BUT

He's going to be an allstar.

Which is it? Is Channing an average rookie or an all star? All star bigs like Amare, Josh Howard, Elton Brand, etc were good rebounders as rookies. Frye's below average rebounding is just a carry over from his below average rebounding for 4 years in college.

He trys hard but has no idea what to do when the ball goes up in the air.

I like Channing a lot. Glad we have him. Not my first choice but a good choice.

He's a gifted scorer. I mean he's really a superior set of offensive skills, but he's far from a complete player. Guys saying he's a good rebounder or defender are just taking happy pills.

Pass me some.



Okay, fishmike, I guess you are looking for some action, so you are intentionally ignoring what I actually wrote, and making it into something else.

That's cool.

Let me restate the title: "Channing Frye threatens to make all-star team..." The operative word is THREATEN. Which means he does really well, gets consideration, but probably falls short.

Sorry if you think that is not possible, I do. But you should just come right out and say it so we can have an intelligent discussion rather than a sarcasm war.

I think it is unlikely that Sweetney will average 18/12 and 3 blks this season though. () How about you?

Channing Frye was ABOVE THE AVERAGE ROOKIE AT EVERYTHING! Including rebounding and defense.

Compared to the league at large I would say he is an average rebounder and defensive player. BUT THAT IS PRETTY DAMN GOOOD FOR A ROOKIE.

The thing is Fish, rookies improve. Starting out average is not bad. It's good. And average for the league is better than the average rookie. I wish he was a perfect player too, but he isn't.

However he showed much promise, including as a defensive player (Nice shot-blocking), and as a rebounder. As pointed out in another thread, Frye rebounds at the same rate as Dirk and Bosh, who are not great rebounders, but they are good rebounders. And he did that asa rookie who was jerked around.

Some things are good fish. Some things are good.

oohah

So you believe that the 8th pick of the draft was above average compared to all other rookies in his rookie class.
If he's a little above average even in *his very worst category*, then yes that's a lot of praise

www.selltheknicks.com----No more DOLANOMICS!
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