[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Deep down inside you WANT Isiah on that line you NEED Isiah on that line
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 2 of 2 ‹ Previous 1  2 
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
9/13/2006  3:38 PM
Sorry Nixluva but I think it should be obvious I can develop my own opinions based on what I personally see and not what the media says. If you read my posts you would know by now that I never buy into this media hype. but I do know that if you are going to call yourself the best pointguard and want to be paid and get the benefits of a leader he is going to get the criticism if he doesn't act like one. I have defended Marbs time and time again. I agree with you that he has received criticism that is at times unwarranted. When his team performs according to it's talent than his teammates are a valid excuse. But when the team underacheives by 10 or 20 games you look to leadership. LB was held to the fire and fired. Isiah has been held to the fire and now has a 1 year ultimatum. They are unable to use excuses for their failures. So is our next "leader", marbs. Time for him to take responsibility and accept the criticism. Stop doing what you are doing and taking criticism personally. Instead listen to what people are saying, understand they are trying to help you succeed and win some games. Is this too much to ask? If so, then we need to find a new leader. One that will accept this responsibility, just like Isiah did when he was a player and Magic and Nash and even Chris Paul. Put the team on your shoulders and play hard. If you fail at that point you will be applauded. Make excuses and you get what you get.
The thing is that Steph has been the best player on this team and he hasn't always had much help. I don't think there's any question that he can lead this team to wins. As i've said over and over, no one was questioning his leadership when the team was winning and I think the team will be more ready to help hold up their end of the bargain this year.

This just proves my point.
#1-You are 100% correct. When he uplifts the team and helps them win he gets no criticism. he is applauded. Isn't that the point? When the team falls apart, bickers and argues and is out of every game 1 quarter in he gets criticism. Why does this happen? Because fans aren't being unfair to Steph. They are responding to how he leads. When he leads and wins he is applauded. End of story.

#2-Doesn't this throw the whole "he doesn't have good players" excuse out the window. If he was able to uplift us for 6 games in January and we are going to credit him for this, what happened the rest of the season? Did we get a new roster? No the team feel apart. all of them!! And Marbs went right along with it.

#3-All anyone is asking is for the guy to do it for a full season. They aren't saying he can't. They are saying he hasn't. He hasn't done it and until he does he will not get credit. For the final time noone is asking Marbs to lead this team to a title. They are asking him to at least help this team acheive what they are capable of. You and I agree that we have 45-50 win talent yet are accepting 37-41 wins. Doesn't that tell you anything about our leadership? Or no.
I just hope that people will like me
AUTOADVERT
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
9/13/2006  3:47 PM
Again Nixluva we are just missing out on one key topic. It's obvious to me I'm just trying to help you see. Based on the way Lb was doing things I did not expect this team to win a lot of games. But I also did not expect a team that I am looking to build a title around to bicker, cry, make excuses and point fingers. I blame them all. You blame LB. I blame the players AND management for creating an atmosphere where fans think it's okay for 50 win talent to win 37-41 games, applaud the coach and scream that we don't need changes.

The team won 23 games last year. I have no doubt that this team is capable of more. But until they DO IT, it's just talk. Stop taking it personally. I am not criticizing this team and saying they can't do something anymore than I am saying they will definitely going to succeed. Those are predictions, not opinions. I am here to talk opinions. I am not saying the upcoming season is doomed. I am talking about what we have seen the past 5 seasons. Things that have actually happened. I'm not using my psychic abilities to predict. I am COMMENTING ON WHAT HAS OCCURED, and talking about changes I think need to take place to reach the level we should be. Predictions are just meaningless guesses that don't mean squat.
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
9/13/2006  3:50 PM
I preached last year about defense and role players. Obvious to all. I was called a pessimist and a criticizer. Then Isiah goes out and gets the exact type of players that I and fish and Allanfan and NYK20 and TMS and many others asked for and all you guys talk about what a positive move it was for the team. I repeat WEIRDEST BOARD EVER!
I just hope that people will like me
rvhoss
Posts: 24943
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/2/2004
Member: #777
Switzerland
9/13/2006  3:59 PM
#2 marbs got hurt (or do you keep forgetting that on purpose)

Forget the fact that that was when the rotation finally settled and marbs went back to starbury mode. then he got hurt.

At that point, lee was suddenly benched again, etc. etc. etc.

But hey, keep blaming it on marbury, open your eyes!
all kool aid all the time.
rvhoss
Posts: 24943
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/2/2004
Member: #777
Switzerland
9/13/2006  4:01 PM
I'm trying to remember, when did all the bickering and finger pointing begin bip? You make it sound like this occurred on day one of the season.

Maybe it was the one orlando game where marbury refused to shoot?
or did it occur after the winning streak?

Do you even know, or are you on this rant to blanket all of last season with finger pointing and bickering?

What was our record at the time of the bickering and finger pointing?

Were the 23 wins a result of the bickering and finger pointing, or was the bickering and finger pointing a result of the crappy record and record lineups?

I mean, you make is sound like the knicks have been bickering and finger pointing since before LB...but in actuality, it arrived with LB.

Open your eyes!
all kool aid all the time.
bigpimpin
Posts: 22176
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 11/17/2004
Member: #801
USA
9/13/2006  4:11 PM
(sitting back eating popcorn while reading Bippity's and Nixluva's post)
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
9/13/2006  4:12 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

I'm trying to remember, when did all the bickering and finger pointing begin bip? You make it sound like this occurred on day one of the season.

Maybe it was the one orlando game where marbury refused to shoot?
or did it occur after the winning streak?

Do you even know, or are you on this rant to blanket all of last season with finger pointing and bickering?

What was our record at the time of the bickering and finger pointing?

Were the 23 wins a result of the bickering and finger pointing, or was the bickering and finger pointing a result of the crappy record and record lineups?

I mean, you make is sound like the knicks have been bickering and finger pointing since before LB...but in actuality, it arrived with LB.

Open your eyes!

Did you just read my post, the one with the capital BLAME IT ON THE TEAM and still conclude that I blame it on marbs. Just because the topic is Marbs right now doesn't mean I blame him. Again stop taking criticism personal. Or are you just flaming to entertain yourself. In my last 3 or 4 posts I have indicted LB, Marbs, Isiah and the rest of the team. I get the feeling that you are just flaming.

Again, I am not talking about record. There were too many factors going for anyone to make last year a successful season. But I am talking about the total utter collapse of the team. They did not like the coach. They collapsed. They lost focus on why they were here. Instead of focusing on what it takes to win, they focused on how much they hate the coach. It was an utter collapse. A bad season would have been acceptable under the roster and outside circumstances. But this was a collapse. It just went to show that Isiah didn't lead, LB didn't lead, and neither did the guy that everyone seems to want to call the leader. I am not bashing Marbs. I don't care about his shoe. I dont' care about him putting a towel on his head. I don't care about scowls. I don't care about any of that nonsense that you guys go back and forth about. I care that no one on the roster stepped up to galvanize the team regardless of the hate for LB. No one did. Right or Wrong? And if no one stepped up, and Marbs is our "leader", isn't this a valid criticism of him AND EVERYONE ELSE. Do I have to include "including LB" in every sentence I type or can I conclude by now that we are all intelligent enough to imply that he is included in the "everyone". I

If you want to discuss LB or Nate or Isiah or David Lee or Channing or Jalen or anyone else and my opinions on the right and wrong(mostly wrong in a 23 win season) than we can start a new post and I can "blame it all on them as well". Or if this one naturally progresses towards another player we can talk about them too. But the fact remains. Marbs is our "leader" so his name is going to come up before the likes of Malik or QWoods or JButler or anyone else. That's what being a leader is. You are responsible.
I just hope that people will like me
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
9/13/2006  4:16 PM
I don't disagree with you in your basic views of what the team needed. I don't think that Isiah has disagreed either.
Isiah has added the kind of players we need over the last two offseasons, it wasn't just due to LB, he had already shown that he was looking to add those kinds of players. I think that my only beef with some of you guys is that you haven't recognized what he's done with this roster in such a short period of time. I don't care what the record was over the last 2.5 seasons, this team is poised to make a big improvement and we're setup for a nice long run, with plenty of youth. You guys haven't given him credit that he's drafted players who have shown leadership on their teams in NCAA or NIT action or at least are known as solid fundamental players like Collins. Also that many of these guys have a FIRE inside that comes thru in their play. A guy like Jared is another example of what he's done to change the makeup of this team. Now just because he's also brought in some guys that aren't like that we tend to ignore what he's done overall.

In the end nothing we say here will make any difference. I have more faith in Isiah and this team than you, but in the end that doesn't mean anything. Isiah has never held out this team as a finished product and we've known that he was going to keep working on the roster until it was closer to what he wanted. Just remember that he's only been here for 2.5 seasons!!! That's really not a lot of time when it comes to totally retooling a team as bad as ours was. YET he's actually done a decent job of doing that if you look at this team objectively. I'm pulling for Isiah and the players, cuz I like this team and want to see them succeed. This team isn't a finished product, but its a lot closer than it was.
bigpimpin
Posts: 22176
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 11/17/2004
Member: #801
USA
9/13/2006  4:17 PM
I do not think it arrived with LB.

If I'm not mistaken the Knicks players "forced" Lenny Wilkens out.
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
rvhoss
Posts: 24943
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/2/2004
Member: #777
Switzerland
9/13/2006  4:20 PM
oh, you blame it on marbs...the one time i see a post that isn't like..

Marbs our "leader"

or

I'm not saying marbs is wrong, but...

give it up, the fact that you have heated debates with me (noted kool aid junkie) and nixluva (from out of know where kool aid fiend) should tell you a thing or two about a thing of two.

typical post...
I'm not saying it's marbury's fault, but it is.

typical repost...
did you read my post, I said it wasn't his fault, but it was...

come on bip, there is no need for the "here is what i mean when i say" threads, and you can just come out of the hater closet and join all the others that hate these knicks because they lost.

but remember, these are the same knicks coming into the season minus one major person. LB.

If they win 24 games, LB sucks. if they win any number of games over 23 then you gotta lay off the sauce and just say what you mean instead of meaning what you say.

a back handed compliment is not a compliment at all.
all kool aid all the time.
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
9/13/2006  5:13 PM
Posted by nixluva:

I don't disagree with you in your basic views of what the team needed. I don't think that Isiah has disagreed either.
Isiah has added the kind of players we need over the last two offseasons, it wasn't just due to LB, he had already shown that he was looking to add those kinds of players. I think that my only beef with some of you guys is that you haven't recognized what he's done with this roster in such a short period of time. I don't care what the record was over the last 2.5 seasons, this team is poised to make a big improvement and we're setup for a nice long run, with plenty of youth. You guys haven't given him credit that he's drafted players who have shown leadership on their teams in NCAA or NIT action or at least are known as solid fundamental players like Collins. Also that many of these guys have a FIRE inside that comes thru in their play. A guy like Jared is another example of what he's done to change the makeup of this team. Now just because he's also brought in some guys that aren't like that we tend to ignore what he's done overall.

In the end nothing we say here will make any difference. I have more faith in Isiah and this team than you, but in the end that doesn't mean anything. Isiah has never held out this team as a finished product and we've known that he was going to keep working on the roster until it was closer to what he wanted. Just remember that he's only been here for 2.5 seasons!!! That's really not a lot of time when it comes to totally retooling a team as bad as ours was. YET he's actually done a decent job of doing that if you look at this team objectively. I'm pulling for Isiah and the players, cuz I like this team and want to see them succeed. This team isn't a finished product, but its a lot closer than it was.


You keep saying you guys. I have never said that Isiah can't draft or doesn't know talent or hasn't assembled good young players or a talented roster. To a man on this site most people recognize this. Why are people skeptical you ask? Because in 2.5 years while adding "talent" we have seen win totals go down, an organizational collapse. Six coaches. Rosters overturned twice. He admitted that he lost focus when he brought in stevie and Jalen. Humiliation of the past three coach's. And now he is in the hotseat with an ultimatum. I don't know how anyone can spin this into some type of plan. I know I'm crazy but I just don't like having a coach who's future is on the line, is also the GM and may be tempted to make a "starphuch" deal to save his career. This is what I complain about. I like the young guys he's brought in. But based on his history and the humiliation this has brought us, I am rooting for another GM to finish the job so Isiah can focus on coaching.

I also repeat that guys like Jared and even Balkman and Collins(who haven't played a minute yet) are the guys that people like me said we needed 2.5 years ago when we were targeting guys that don't fit like Jalen, MoT and some others. We also blame LB for everything but conveniently ignore the fact that it was Isiah that brought oil and water together. Again, blame it all on LB and absolve everyone else. It's been a roundabout way to get to where we are and some don't trust him to stay the course. Based on past events this is a very valid point of view. But when you say "you guys" don't give him credit please talk to "you guys" and leave my posts out of it. Isiah deserves as much credit for the youth he has brought as he deserves criticism for the nonsense that has ensued around it. Correct me if I'm wrong, you can build a youthful team without humiliating 3 coaches, making your team a league wide laughingstock and buying out all your mistakes(LB included).

In the end Nixluva the only place we disagree is this. Based on past events I do beleive that there is a possibility that things can go wrong. You don't. So why are we arguing? When I talk about the mistakes of last year and how we need things to change this year leave it at that. It is not a prediction. It is not a pessimistic approach. It is not an "oh we are doomed". It's just an observation about what happened and how we ended up with 23 wins and how we can avoid it this year. That's all.
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
9/13/2006  5:14 PM
Posted by bigpimpin:

I do not think it arrived with LB.

If I'm not mistaken the Knicks players "forced" Lenny Wilkens out.

They did, but since we hate LB now that horrible 3 and whatever 16 or 17 stretch in February is ignored. That bunch was lead by Marbs and TT and KT and couldn't get it together either.
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
9/13/2006  5:23 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

oh, you blame it on marbs...the one time i see a post that isn't like..

Marbs our "leader"

or

I'm not saying marbs is wrong, but...

give it up, the fact that you have heated debates with me (noted kool aid junkie) and nixluva (from out of know where kool aid fiend) should tell you a thing or two about a thing of two.

typical post...
I'm not saying it's marbury's fault, but it is.

typical repost...
did you read my post, I said it wasn't his fault, but it was...

come on bip, there is no need for the "here is what i mean when i say" threads, and you can just come out of the hater closet and join all the others that hate these knicks because they lost.

but remember, these are the same knicks coming into the season minus one major person. LB.

If they win 24 games, LB sucks. if they win any number of games over 23 then you gotta lay off the sauce and just say what you mean instead of meaning what you say.

a back handed compliment is not a compliment at all.

Hoss you are simply a flamer. I will say it like it is. I don't find you to be a good poster at all. You are a flamer. You take criticism personally. If I criticize Marbs it does not mean I blame him. I love his talent. I love his ability. I love what he is capable of. I do not like the way he leads at all. He is a poor leader. This is my honest assessment of Steph's strengths and weaknesses. It just so happens we are talking about his leadership ability right now. If you would like to have a mature conversation about another player and we can talk about them I beleive there is a button that says NEW POST. Start one up and I will give you my opinion about them.

Your whole premise of any conversation with me is preconceived. You have it set in your head that I am setting up to protect myself against my opinions of LB. If he is brought up and I say something negative about him(like I have about 30 times today and 1000000 times in the past few months) your preconceived notion is that I am lying and this is not the way I really feel. If I say something positive about him I love him. If I say something negative I really love him, but I'm just saying something negative so that people somehow think I don't really love him. That I am fearful of anyone on this board. I argue all day long yet somehow am fearful of expressing my opinion. It's lunacy. If you want my opionion on Brown i am glad to give it to you. All you have to do is ask. I am not Fish. I am not NYK75 or anyone else. I have my own opinions. I agree with them a lot and they take me at face value. Because I have my own opinions I disagree with them and agree with you from time to time. I don't have a problem with this. You seem to.

Bottom line: If I disagree with you I am a hater. If I agree with you then I am lying and am really a hater just trying to hide my true feelings. Dude you are ridiculous. Makes for a very negative experience.

I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
9/13/2006  5:26 PM
And by flamer I don't mean gay. I mean you're purpose is to discount opinions and try to pis people off. Fun for you. Boring for me.
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
9/13/2006  5:29 PM
I love his talent. I love his ability. I love what he is capable of. I do not like the way he leads at all. He is a poor leader. This is my honest assessment of Steph's strengths and weaknesses.

Somehow someone will read this and claim that I said Marb's is the antichrist and to blame for 30+ years of no title.
I just hope that people will like me
Solace
Posts: 30002
Alba Posts: 20
Joined: 10/30/2003
Member: #479
USA
9/13/2006  5:31 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
I love his talent. I love his ability. I love what he is capable of. I do not like the way he leads at all. He is a poor leader. This is my honest assessment of Steph's strengths and weaknesses.

Somehow someone will read this and claim that I said Marb's is the antichrist and to blame for 30+ years of no title.

Why do you hate Marbury so much?????? Can't you compliment the guy? I mean he didn't write "all alone" on his $15 shoes yet. Give him some credit!
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
9/13/2006  5:38 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by Bippity10:
I love his talent. I love his ability. I love what he is capable of. I do not like the way he leads at all. He is a poor leader. This is my honest assessment of Steph's strengths and weaknesses.

Somehow someone will read this and claim that I said Marb's is the antichrist and to blame for 30+ years of no title.

Why do you hate Marbury so much?????? Can't you compliment the guy? I mean he didn't write "all alone" on his $15 shoes yet. Give him some credit!

Here's the psychology of it all. Someone will read this sentence in response to one of my posts and think 30 days from now that this is how I "really" feel. So allow me to re-iterate. I love his talent. I love his potential. I even like watching him play. He entertains me more than 95% of the league. That being said, because I am objective I will say that he has not been a good leader.

Good things and bad things about Marbs. My honest opinion. Every person has strengths and weaknesses. This is his main one. Is this okay? Should I be shot for saying this. If marbs develops he can retire a Knick. But in the meantime this is a flaw he needs to work on. No shame in that. He has played very well for us the past 2.5 years. He has not arguably been our best player, he has by far been our best player. He has worked on his offensive game like a beast. Built his body like a beast. Cheer him for this. He Has not focused on learning to lead or perfecting his all-around game. Point this out. Is that okay????? Or is that blaming? Does this mean I hate him?
I just hope that people will like me
Page 2 of 2 ‹ Previous 1  2 
« Reply To Topic
Deep down inside you WANT Isiah on that line you NEED Isiah on that line
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy