Posted by gunsnewing:

Posted by nixluva:

DAMN you guys are just incredible. The man is saying things he's NEVER said before. He seems sincere and at least he recognizes his failings and where he needs to changes. Have you ever heard him say anything about WINNING before? No you guys just can't stop yourselves from being negative. From everything i've been reading its obvious that these guys want to prove that they can win this year. I think isiah will harp on the "Its us against the world" theme. It should work since it really is that way for them. Almost no one thinks they can play winning ball. From the coach to the players, there is a sense that they have to band together and prove that they can play as a team.

If you really look at this situation its a very good thing that's happening right now. This team has a chance to have a good year. I see no reason to be so sarcastic towards them. Guys have hit rock bottom and they don't like it. It sounds to me like not only are they preparing their bodies but their minds to be in the right mental state for this coming season. Isn't that what we want to hear at this point, as opposed to more defiant talk about "ME".

did you become a knicks fan just last year? if so there's nothing wrong with that but just so you know there's been tons articles written exactly like this over the years like Vin Baker & Jerome James for example. The media has nothing to write about

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by gunsnewing:

Posted by nixluva:

DAMN you guys are just incredible. The man is saying things he's NEVER said before. He seems sincere and at least he recognizes his failings and where he needs to changes. Have you ever heard him say anything about WINNING before? No you guys just can't stop yourselves from being negative. From everything i've been reading its obvious that these guys want to prove that they can win this year. I think isiah will harp on the "Its us against the world" theme. It should work since it really is that way for them. Almost no one thinks they can play winning ball. From the coach to the players, there is a sense that they have to band together and prove that they can play as a team.

If you really look at this situation its a very good thing that's happening right now. This team has a chance to have a good year. I see no reason to be so sarcastic towards them. Guys have hit rock bottom and they don't like it. It sounds to me like not only are they preparing their bodies but their minds to be in the right mental state for this coming season. Isn't that what we want to hear at this point, as opposed to more defiant talk about "ME".

did you become a knicks fan just last year? if so there's nothing wrong with that but just so you know there's been tons articles written exactly like this over the years like Vin Baker & Jerome James for example. The media has nothing to write about

I've been a knick fan for a longtime. I'm 41. I just don't see what any of those other things have to do with this situation. I'm not saying you have to buy into everything that's being written, just be a bit more aware of where this team is at mentally. You guys just don't seem to do anything more than make sarcastic remarks about the players and coach on this team. I think you guys are so locked into your opinions about this team that you can't allow yourselves to see what this team is likely to accomplish this year.

THIS YEAR the team will have a much bigger contribution from its better young players. THIS YEAR the team will likely establish the beginnings of an identity. Stability and consistency. THIS YEAR the team is even more setup to be successful than before. Barring any unforseen health problems, this team looks stronger coming into this year than last year. There are fewer personnel changes and that's a good thing. You KNOW that the coach is committed to making this work and the players are motivated to prove they aren't the losers LB said they were. All of these things are good signs for this team. You all know we have the talent to compete, now with everyone being more together almost out of necessity, I expect that to translate into a better performance. There are other factors but you get the idea.

Many of you have serious doubts about the team and seem not to really like the teams players. You may like the KNICKS but you don't seem to like the players or have any faith that they can play winning ball. I on the otherhand DO like the players and I do have faith that they can play winning ball.

Nixluva the exact same team won 23 games last year. Can you blame people for ahving doubts. Yes people all agree this year will be better. But most objective fans are wondering how this team will truly respond. We don't know because we haven't seen them respond positively yet. I'm just curious as to when a "I will wait and see approach" became being locked in and the "we will be great this year at all costs" became the flexible view.

There is no sarcasm intended by me at all. I am just calling it the way I see it. Last year my talented team won 23 games. Regardless of the excuses everyone makes for them the end result was still 23 wins. Results means everything to me. I don't care about potential. I agree with all you say about hte potential of this team. I agree about the improvements. I agree with everything. But it's still just talk. We still won 23 games last year.

Talk and nothing changes. Win on the court and everyone stops doubting you. It's a very simple concept. I think some just need everyone to hop on and say how fantastic things are to validate their own predictions.

Posted by Bippity10:

I'll sum it up this way. I look at this roster and I should be amped. I should be dreaming of 50 win seasons and 2nd round of playoffs easily. This should be an absolute guarntee for me. Instead I am hoping for 38 wins. Maybe 40. And praying they can make it to the playoffs.

My question is where else but in NY is predicting that your team will underachieve by 10-15 games considered an optimistic approach to a season. That is how much NY fans are settling. I called this 5 years ago, and 5 years ago even I didn't beleive the nonsense I was spewing, and sadly it is becoming true right before my very eyes. NY fans are settling. No longer do we demand that our Knicks acheive what their talent calls for. If you do that and are unsatisfied when this occurs you are a pessimist. But if you get real excited about your team underachieving by 10 or 15 gmaes you are a friggin real fan.

To all those from MSG this is not new but I will say it again for the rest of the "optimists": We must change the atmosphere in NY. We have accepted this culture of losing for long enough. We must take the power away from the players that are strategically lowering our expectations from them and give the power back to a coach that demands more (Hopefully Isiah will be this coach). Management is sellign us a bill of goods. Yes 38 wins at this point is progress but it's progress from a wasted season back to the situation we were in 3 years ago that we hated then. Why is it today that same situation is now a good thing. Because management is selling us a bill of goods. Some have accepted this bill of goods ("the optimists") some are demanding that players produce what they are capable of ("psesimists").

We all are predicting around the same amount of wins. Quibbling and thinking there is some huge difference between 38 wins and 42 wins is silly. The goal is not to build a team capable of winning 42 games and is better than last year's debacle. The goal is to eventually win a title. We need to find out who can help us to that end and who cannot. Excuses are not part of the agenda. All the LB excuses are gone. If they come out ready to play this year and give us an effort than they can be here as we grow. If not, no excuse should be allowed to cut them slack. We must demand more in order to get 50 wins out of a 50 win roster. If not we will forever be saying it's "optimistic" and "great" for a 50 win roster to win 32 games. And we will always be defending them and blasting others that ask more. Enough is enough.

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by arkrud:

Going back to Francis amd Marbary. Their good numbers and All-Star yerars was coming when thay was playing in a systems which was using their scoring and slashing abilities. And mostly because it was no other scoring choises on the rosters.
It was also a result of the athletic abilities of both guards. They was young and strong.
All this is not the case any more. They are older and not so healthy.
And the Knicks is not a team of suporting role players but all the way around.

They will probably reestablich their game but it will be on some other clubs who need them... to not suck badly...
The best thing for Francis and Marbs is to be traded to the team where they will play the way they accoustomed to play

I have to shake my head when I read stuff like this. Even at this stage in his career, Steph is still too much for any defender. He may not have the exact same hops he once had, but he's still explosive. Heck Steve Nash is older than Steph and Francis and he's still movin. Francis may have lost just a tad of his athleticism, but he's still able to throw it down with no problem.

You also don't seem to understand how they'll be used in this offense. They'll actually be getting help from their bigs to get open and force teams to switch. Once that happens they will easily be able to get by a bigger slower defender. Screens and cuts are a big part of this offense and really we haven't made use of them to the degree that other teams have against us. Rather than go away from Steph and Francis being big scorers for this team, Isiah will likely make use of their scoring ability as well as our other guards. Our bigs will be able to feed off of that for much easier baskets.

I still don't understand how you overlook the fact that the only times that Marbury and Francis have been successful in their careers is when the ball has CONSTANTLY been in their hands. In a motion offense, it is going to require Steph and Francis to totally change the way they've played in the past and both times they've tried doing that before they have failed (see phoenix trading Marbury.) The fact that you will not take in opinions other than your own is a bit disturbing. You still don't seem to understand the fact that we're all hear to make predictions and thats what we're doing. Your arguing with people on what THEY think will happen. This leads nowhere.

Posted by oohah:

I still don't understand how you overlook the fact that the only times that Marbury and Francis have been successful in their careers is when the ball has CONSTANTLY been in their hands. In a motion offense, it is going to require Steph and Francis to totally change the way they've played in the past and both times they've tried doing that before they have failed (see phoenix trading Marbury.) The fact that you will not take in opinions other than your own is a bit disturbing. You still don't seem to understand the fact that we're all hear to make predictions and thats what we're doing. Your arguing with people on what THEY think will happen. This leads nowhere.

nyk4ever,

What's up dude?

Anyways, what do think will happen this year?

Also, what number of wins do you consider acceptable, what number will make you happy, and more importantly, what does it mean to you?

oohah

Not much Oohah, how about yourself?

Wins to me are not important, I'm with everyone about the talent on this team but talent doesn't always translate to wins. I still think Marbury and Francis are extreme cancers and I think the sheer fact that they are on this team will limit any success the team can have. As I said earlier, wins are not the overlying determinant of what is a successful season for me. I will deem this season a success if the team plays well TOGETHER on offense and they ALL bust their butts on defense. If they do these things, I think it will translate to a playoff appearance and I will be very happy, even it doesn't translate to a playoff appearance. With all that being said, I can't just simply overlook(like some others on this board love to do) the fact that a few of key guys have extremely checkered pasts on the basketball court. These guys are the key to our season and this is why I have many doubts going into the season.

If I HAVE to pick a win total, I'm going to say 37-38 wins along with no defense from most players, except for guys like Jared and Lee and maybe Jamal. I'm extremely eager to see how Frye comes back and improves his defense off last year and the summer league, it's going to be a huge factor on what kind of player he's going to be in the NBA. Yes, I know I'm "labeled" as a pessismist on this board, but I like to think of myself as a realist instead.