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Win the battle, lose the war............when the sum is less than the pieces............
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martin
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9/1/2006  2:05 PM
We've lost our grip on the game
Insider
By Chris Broussard

Let's face it: basketball is no longer our game. It no longer belongs to the playgrounds of New York City and Chicago, to the beach blacktops of Southern Cali, or to the country courts of Indiana and the rural South.

Dunking still belongs to those places, so does the crossover dribble, the no-look pass and trash talk.

But the game?

It's not ours anymore.

What more evidence do we need? With rosters full of NBA stars, we finished sixth in the 2002 Worlds, third in the '04 Olympics and now, after Friday's loss to Greece, either third or fourth in '06.

This time, we sent our five best young players (LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Dwyane Wade, Dwight Howard, Chris Paul), a supporting cast of role players, and took this thing as seriously as possible, and we still weren't good enough.

I wrote before the tourney began that our superior athleticism combined with our good but not great skills and chemistry would overcome the international squads' superior skills and chemistry. Problem is, our skills are lacking big time.

Too often in the U.S., when we mention "skills'' we think of a fancy handle and pretty passing ability, but jump shooting is a skill. Free-throw shooting is a skill. And the bottom line is we don't do those things well. We shot 9-for-28 from 3-point land and 20-for-34 from the foul line against Greece.

Ultimately, it boils down to this. We are being schooled to the fact that basketball is still a team game. We've lost sight of that in America, where true team basketball is about as rare as a smiling rapper.

It's all about an individual's dominance in America, where our NBA is now full of one and two-man teams. LeBron almost single-handedly led Cleveland to the Eastern Conference finals. With Shaq struggling, there were long stretches when it was "all-Wade-all-the-time'' in Miami's march to the title. Philly is all A.I., the Lakers all Kobe.

And what do we say about LeBron, AI and Kobe? They need one more star. Why not build a full team around them, where all five guys are involved in the offense and touch the rock?

I got up at 3:30 Friday morning and watched the game against Greece and what I saw was a clinic. Greece's offense had almost perpetual motion. They used screens and cutting. They ran the pick-and-roll. They shot the lights out from the arc. They even pounded us inside with a 6-10 behemoth who had his way with Elton Brand, and then his backup, this cat called "Baby Shaq,'' just bulldozed us.

On the other hand, whenever we scored (especially in the second half), it was D Wade, Carmelo or LeBron going one-on-five. Greece had a sophisticated offensive scheme that exploited our defense to the max, and we had "give it to a star and let him break down his man and create.''

Which brings me to another point: we're being outcoached in these international affairs. I don't want to come down too hard on Coach K because I thought he did a great job of creating an unselfish atmosphere among the players and of getting them to really buckle down defensively.

But his offense was pretty unimaginative. The only movement for the most part was the man with the ball dribbling his way into the paint while everyone else just stood around. But it's not just Coach K; it was Larry Brown and George Karl, too.

These international coaches implement five-man offenses that we can't guard because we're used to guarding just one or two guys in the NBA, where a coach can all but say, "Forget the rest, they can't shoot anyway.''

You know what, though? I bet the fourth and fifth starters on an NBA squad could cut off a back screen and hit a layup if a coach dared put in such a play. But it's easier to just give it to my flashy, dunking, dribble-happy, maxed-out swingman and let him do his thing.

I mean this from the bottom of my heart: if I were an NBA GM and I was looking for a head coach, I'd look to Europe.

It's becoming clearer every day why Mike D'Antoni, who cut his coaching teeth in Europe, consistently overachieves in Phoenix. His offense uses all five players.

And don't give me this jive about Greece, Spain and Argentina playing together so long. Those guys play on different teams, and sometimes in different countries, during the season. They're not holed up in some gym playing together year round.

And many of them have different roles on their professional teams than they do on their national teams. Do you think Andres Nocioni's the same player now that he was two years ago in Argentina? No way.

But the international players grow up playing team basketball. They grow up screening and cutting and shooting. So when they reunite, it's like clockwork.

The international players and coaches will never admit this publicly, but in their heart of hearts I bet they're beginning to view American basketball like America's "real basketball'' fans, players and coaches view And1 Streetball.

They probably think our over-dribbling, individualistic, high-flying style of play is entertaining and fun to watch, but that it'll never work in "real'' international play.

I also don't want to hear that we didn't send our absolute best to Japan. What American player would've changed the outcome for us?

Shaq would have been exploited mercilessly in the pick-and-roll, motion schemes of the international teams and on the other end, the zone defense would have hemmed him up (just like it did Duncan in '04).

Kobe, as great as he is, would've been just another superstar who needs the ball and goes one-on-five. Jason Kidd's lack of shooting ability would have made him a liability against the zone.

I hate to say this, but here's the ugly truth: our NBA champion is no longer the "World Champion.'' Not by a long shot.

Heck, I'm beginning to have serious doubts now that our best NBA teams would beat the best Euro League teams.

Give me one good reason I should believe NBA teams are better than Euro League teams. Seriously, I'm looking for a reason to still think the NBA's the best.

Because we dunk better? We're flashier? We're more athletic? We're blacker? We're marketed better?

Greece did not have one NBA player on its roster. In what line of work do individuals from a supposedly inferior company consistently ('02, '04, '06) outperform those of a supposedly superior company without replacing them as top dog?

What if a group of CBA players or Streetball players beat our NBA stars in three straight competitions, would we continue to say the NBA is the best league?

Most people now know that we need to change our system -- from grade school on up -- but that's going to take time.

A quicker solution would be for our coaches to begin teaching true team basketball again, where the offense has movement and screening and cutting, where we don't dribble as much.

If we don't do that, the only thing that will save us is if the international teams follow in our footsteps and become more individualistic. But that's not likely to happen because they know our individualism and lack of skills are our downfall, where their teamwork and abundance of skills are their strength.
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Bippity10
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9/1/2006  2:08 PM
Posted by martin:

Here is one question I have for those that watched the USA-Greece game (I did not):

Greece beat USA, but could the Greece team beat USA in a 7 game series or during a marathon 82 game season where every team has a chance to scout and expoit known weaknesses? Or was their style and team concept so tight and whole that they are a lesser Detroit and good enough? In short, can team play really be sucessfull long term in the NBA or was this just a 1-game execution of genius?

Championships are won in the format given. As a team we are much better. In a season of games we would win outright in my guess. Sooner or later we would adjust and the better talent would prevail. Also the pressure led to a complete breakdown. A breakdown that would not occur in a less pressurized regular season game. But that's not the point of the championships. In these games you have ot bring your best. You have to use your "basketball IQ" to adjust to your opponents on the fly without relying on your coaches. That's pure basketball. We don't have that ability right now. In the beginning of that game we moved the ball splendidly. But then things started going badly after we went out 10 pts up. We adjusted poorly. Instead of settling down and falling back on good habits. We totally jacknifed and relied on the street game. The street game is great. It's part of basketball. but in an organized game where good/bad refs, different rules and unfamiliar players exist you must be able to go back to good habits and fundamentals. Our players don't do that right now. They all fall back on one and one. In the media it's pretty and gets you a big contract but in championship caliber games it's nonsense. It's a paper champion. We have a few on the Knicks that are paper champions. Fantastic skills but when the pressure is on, things are tough and things are going bad they fall back on horrible habits that don't win games.

I'm praying the kNicks front office are preaching defense and good pure basketball as opposed to opening up the offense. Preach defense and relying on your teammates. Creating a one on one offense with little or no playes will win games for us in the short run because we are talented. It will look pretty. But in the end it won't get us any closer to the championship than we were last year or the year before or the year before that. Our national team should be all the evidence we need. Winning 40 games in the regular season and then getting blitzed in the playoffs because you play no D is not a winning formula. It's time for us to do things right. Hopefully Isiah remembers his career and is following this pessimistic philosophy.

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martin
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9/1/2006  2:14 PM
As soon as I read "basketball IQ" I stopped because it doesn't exist. Thanks.

That last paragraph shows me you are a LB lover and a Marb hater.
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Bippity10
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9/1/2006  2:17 PM
Another big problem is that in the US when a coach tries to preach team basketball the team thinks he's an idiot and won't listen. Then when the team won't listen the coach gets fired.
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Bippity10
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9/1/2006  2:18 PM
Posted by martin:

As soon as I read "basketball IQ" I stopped because it doesn't exist. Thanks.

That last paragraph shows me you are a LB lover and a Marb hater.

Ever since that post where everyone got all bent out of shape over the term "basketball IQ" I use the term "basketball IQ" almost excusively.
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eViL
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9/1/2006  2:21 PM
Raven, you really make some good points on how the new NBA rules have deteriorated the US game. After considering your two posts, I have to say - that's the best analysis on Team USA's performance I have read and also a pretty sad statement on the current state of the NBA. Actually, I'm sorry - it's the second best analysis. Number one was rvhoss's post: "TEAM USA IS BETTER WITHOUT LB!!!" That was deep.
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wsdm
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9/1/2006  2:35 PM
Wow! People are spinning this awful loss as a victory for LB?
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Bippity10
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9/1/2006  2:36 PM
They are?
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martin
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9/1/2006  2:36 PM
Posted by wsdm:

Wow! People are spinning this awful loss as a victory for LB?

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eViL
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9/1/2006  2:38 PM
Posted by wsdm:

Wow! People are spinning this awful loss as a victory for LB?

No. It's not a win for LB. It just makes the "TEAM PERFORMS BETTER AFTER LB" argument seem stupider. I don't know if you were around, but after Team USA won one game convincingly -- the "I told you so's" started. Well, it looks like the "I told you so's" were a bit premature, no?
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Bippity10
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9/1/2006  2:44 PM
I think the point of the response is to somehow get across that win or lose the players need to take responsibility. In this case there is no Larry Brown to point fingers at and say it's all his fault. He didn't win aything. His team lost 2 years ago just like coach K's. It just illustrates how silly and inane these LB arguments are.
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nyk4ever
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9/1/2006  2:45 PM
Posted by raven:



International game is not the issue, nba game is. Look at how a standard nba game is boring compared to ncaa for instance, with so many iso all the time. this is not basketball the way it should be played. 5 guys, one ball, passing makes it move fast and keeps the game exciting. All those stupid rules (3 senconds defensive violation my god who invented that ??? ) will steadily bring the US skills to the floor. That's the issue mate, the nba game is built to be a show and to generate $$$ with "oh-my-god-that-dunk-was-sick" things, though a midrange jumper will win more games that a big dunk.

guys like jeff hornacek (spelling) comes to my mind. Those guys were not flashy, but they would have made other international teams think twice about using a zone defense.

As long as the emphasis will be made on :
- wingspan
- athletism
- jumping ability

instead of :
- passing
- midrange shooting
- reading the game skills

... you're bound to be helpess against true zones d, not the fake zones we can see in the league. I find it hard to believe that players can regress on a basketball standpoint from going from college to the nba, but it looks like it is.

One poster was talking about the missing thing was experience, and only that. that the dream team had a lot of experience. I'd just say name one payer on that team that couldn't knock an open jumper down, heck, the centers were ewing and robinson, 2 7 footers that could shoot the 3 ball with a forward stroke.
Experience is not the missing thing, fundamentals is. And the nba is at the total oppsite of the spectrum of fundamentals.

My 2 ct.

Apologizes as usual, english mistakes.

Go USA for 2008 !


[Edited by - raven on 09-01-2006 2:04 PM]

Raven I agree fully with your post. When I was saying "International Game is the issue" it was meant as "International game is an issue for NBA players." Good post.
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nyk4ever
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9/1/2006  2:47 PM
Posted by wsdm:

Wow! People are spinning this awful loss as a victory for LB?

Who is doing this? The only reason LB has been mentioned in this thread is because many people on this site were blaming him for the olympic last time around and they proved to be wrong. LB is not victorious, US still lost. Just trying to quell the "I told-you-so's"
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Bippity10
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9/1/2006  3:02 PM
Honestly this is what it comes down to. Fans of a team brag and brag to all their friends about how good their team is. The brag so much that they feel their entire dignity is placed on the back of the Knicks. They spend three/four months talking about how great the Knicks are going to be and that anyone that disagrees just doesn't see how good we are and is simply a hater.

Then the season starts and the team loses 59 games.

They can't just simply admit that maybe they were wrong. That would be embarrassing. Instead they search for one individual that must be the only reason that the team didn't achieve what I said they would. I'm not wrong. I'm actually right. My team is still great. We are still one of the elite, it's just that the bonehead Don Chaney or the too nice Lenny Wilkens or that "too young" Herb Williams or "the jerk" LB ruined it for us. My team is really good, it was just them. Sooner or later they will star to win and at that point they will say I told you so.

The truth is simple. LB did a bad job trying to win games last year. He was a huge part of the problem. Without him we win 10-15 more games. so what! We still would have stunk. The only difference is at that point we can go back to pretending we were one player away from a title.

You need the right coach for your style of play. Then you need the right players for that system of play and the competition. When you mix and match it doesn't work. That's what the Knicks tried to do and that's what the US Olympic team tried to do. LB was part of both problems previously. But now he's gone and the problems haven't gone away. Why? Because it's the players!
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newyorknewyork
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9/1/2006  3:08 PM
Gilbert Arenas was going to get cut from the team reguardless. I was at work last night. Listening to up all night with Jason Smith. And they were talking about Arenas coming out and saying that he was going to try to drop 100pts on the Suns & Portland because of Nate Mcmillan(spelling) and Jerry Colangelo, the assistant coaches. Colangelo told Arenas he was on the bubble and on the verge of getting cut. And Arenas did have a small injury but he wasn't hurt enough that he could't play. So to save face they agreed that they would say he was to hurt to play.

Jason Smith was laughing at the fact that he was so mad that he waited all this time to come out and say it.

I saw the last few mins of the game when I came home. Melo screwed up at the end. Not to put the blame on him. But they cut the lead to 4. And forced Greece to a 5 second violation. They inbound the ball with 24secs left. But as soon as they inbound the ball passing it to Melo. He jacks up an airball contested 3pter. When he should have easiliy just drove the ball and took it to the rack probably either scoring or getting fouled or both. Greek Baby Shaq wasn't in to intimidate either. They could have probably cut the lead to 2 with 20-19 seconds to go.

Jaimison is not a good fit on that team. He needs to be replaced with a defensive rebounding, shotblocking banger. And everyone agrees they need some pure shooters on the team.
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newyorknewyork
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9/1/2006  3:12 PM
Those who blamed USA losing on LB were allways wrong. As it wasn't his fault. But those blaming LB for making the team hate playing for him. And for pissing Stern off by complaining about his roster. And for playing slow halfcourt basketball vs the Euros. Are correct. Those are the things the had added to the failure. But them losing wasn't his fault.
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Bippity10
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9/1/2006  3:24 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Those who blamed USA losing on LB were allways wrong. As it wasn't his fault. But those blaming LB for making the team hate playing for him. And for pissing Stern off by complaining about his roster. And for playing slow halfcourt basketball vs the Euros. Are correct. Those are the things the had added to the failure. But them losing wasn't his fault.

Point number 2 is a good point. And that goes back to the Olympic committe hiring him and then building a team that doesn't fit his image. The funny thing is in the end, when we start winning the team is going to look a lot like the one he wanted. But in the end he wasn't a good fit. YOu don't hire LB for an all-star team anymore than you hire Bobby Knight. It's just dumb.

Same goes with the Knicks. we hired the guy and then wanted him to coach an all-star style squad. We didn't want to stay the course and follow his program. Again, that's fine. LB is not the only way to win so if you don't like his style you don't need to follow it. But the question remains, WHY HIRE HIM?

With the Us team the reality is the same. The players hated him. He is now gone. The team will finish no better than it did when he was here. The problems are the exact same. The result is the exact same. The only difference is this time our players like the coach. With the Knicks we will be better but we will still be bad.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 09-01-2006 3:27 PM]
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nyballer
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9/1/2006  3:28 PM
everyone says the us bball players aren't the best in the world, etc. but I don't buy it. If you picked the best players in europe and gave them 2 months to practice together and asekd them to play the heat or suns or mavs (with dirk), i dont think they'd beat the NBA team. so it doesn't make sense to say that international teams that play together beating the US team means we aren't the best basketball talents in the world. It means the world is getting better, but I bet any international team would take each US player on their team, but not the other way around. basketball is a team sport, and it's just that we aren't so much better that we can get a loose team together to play guys that have been together for a while.
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Bippity10
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9/1/2006  3:32 PM
I think the Euros would be glad to take anyone of our players, because our players in a team system would be nasty. But I'm pretty sure that if they didn't listen to the coaches and decided to play one on one ball and then complained about being stifled and "losing their joy", they would probably be cut for the good of the team.
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martin
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9/1/2006  3:52 PM
Posted by nyballer:

everyone says the us bball players aren't the best in the world, etc. but I don't buy it. If you picked the best players in europe and gave them 2 months to practice together and asekd them to play the heat or suns or mavs (with dirk), i dont think they'd beat the NBA team. so it doesn't make sense to say that international teams that play together beating the US team means we aren't the best basketball talents in the world. It means the world is getting better, but I bet any international team would take each US player on their team, but not the other way around. basketball is a team sport, and it's just that we aren't so much better that we can get a loose team together to play guys that have been together for a while.


from the Insider article I posted earlier, it makes sense to me:
And don't give me this jive about Greece, Spain and Argentina playing together so long. Those guys play on different teams, and sometimes in different countries, during the season. They're not holed up in some gym playing together year round.

And many of them have different roles on their professional teams than they do on their national teams. Do you think Andres Nocioni's the same player now that he was two years ago in Argentina? No way.

But the international players grow up playing team basketball. They grow up screening and cutting and shooting. So when they reunite, it's like clockwork.

The international players and coaches will never admit this publicly, but in their heart of hearts I bet they're beginning to view American basketball like America's "real basketball'' fans, players and coaches view And1 Streetball.
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