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Listening to Steven A. Smith today...
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Swishfm3
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8/30/2006  9:01 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by nixluva:

What the HECK are some of you talking about when you say we hear the same thing every year? MANY OF THE KEY PLAYERS ON THIS TEAM HAVEN'T BEEN TOGETHER FOR MORE THAN A YEAR, SO WHO ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Curry? Frye? Lee? Nate? Francis? Jalen? Jared? Balkman? Collins? OH you mean James who came in last year out of shape? from everything we've heard Isiah has spoken to him about coming in fit and ready. James has made statements that he was embarrassed by what he did and would do better and now we hear further that he's going to be in shape. If he's not, then shame on him, but he's not the key to this season. Curry we already KNOW has been working out and the workouts have been supervised and augmented by a Knicks Coach. What else do you want?

Why shouldn't we be pleased to hear these good reports. Don't tell me we heard these things last summer cuz we DIDN'T. I really don't know what you guys are talking about. We knew Curry hadn't been working out all summer. We didn't know James was way out of shape, but we had no reason to believe he was. There was some concern about QRich's health. We didn't really get into Mo's conditioning either. I don't think we were that concerned one way or the other about Mo to begin with. I really don't recall all this talk about the team being in such great shape. We may have been excited about the new additions, but we didn't have so much insight into the offseason progress of all the players.

SO THIS YEAR, we are more concerned and rightfully so. I just think its all good that we're hearing something positive about the team. Do you really think that with this season being SO IMPORTANT that Isiah wouldn't be all over the offseason conditioning of his players? He's not going to be playing around this year, with his job on the line. I can see some of you guys now just WAITING for something negative to happen so you can pounce on it. The 1st losing streak and you guys will be all over it. You must be those guys that go to the Garden and BOO the team for having a bad 1st qtr and then cheer like crazy if they start playing better in the 2nd. Fickle has hell. I HATE THAT CRAP!

Most of these players have been in the league for a while and most have reputations. And most have backed up those reputations. Again, I don't give a rats asse about reports. What do reports mean????? I am not going to get excited over a report. Do it on the court.


Fine go ahead and take that attitude, but the point i'm making is that we have NO VALID REASON to doubt that most of the players on this team are doing what they're supposed to be doing this offseason. You and some others just CHOOSE for whatever reasons to believe that the reports have to be false and that its more likely that these guys are gonna be out of shape and unprepared. Why do you even follow the team, if you're gonna be THAT negative in your thinking.

I personally don't see a team that we need to be concerned about in terms of effort and being prepared. The KEY players on this team are going to be ready for the season. Curry, Frye, Lee, Jared, Jamal, Nate, QRich, Balkman, Collins, Steph & Francis, I expect to be ready. That's enough for me. If JJ wants to kill his season by coming in out of shape, so be it.

falling on deaf ears Nix....If we all follow Bips, no one will post here until the first game of the season...he's tired of reading about it !! he wants to see it!! Duh.
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Nalod
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8/30/2006  10:24 PM
THEY SUPPOSE TO BE IN SHAPE!

Its not asking too much to come to camp prepared.

138million in salary and we gonna give them a cookie for coming to camp prepared!

And we gonna get jacked about this?

Hell no im not jacked. Win 10 games out the block im jacked. Gonna watch them win or lose. Lose not so much if they pull the same crap again.

I go to work and bang out the mortgage, tuition, car payment and else and nobody writing me up! If I don't, and go belly up its gonna hit the papers!

Im suppose to do my job and fulfil my obligations.

Phuch this hype propoganda BS! In fact, be better if they just said no Media until the seaon. I know they can't cuz they gotta give media access and say the same crap to try to sell tickets, but I ain't buying no hype.

nixluva
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8/30/2006  11:34 PM
Posted by Nalod:

THEY SUPPOSE TO BE IN SHAPE!

Its not asking too much to come to camp prepared.

138million in salary and we gonna give them a cookie for coming to camp prepared!

And we gonna get jacked about this?

Hell no im not jacked. Win 10 games out the block im jacked. Gonna watch them win or lose. Lose not so much if they pull the same crap again.

I go to work and bang out the mortgage, tuition, car payment and else and nobody writing me up! If I don't, and go belly up its gonna hit the papers!

Im suppose to do my job and fulfil my obligations.

Phuch this hype propoganda BS! In fact, be better if they just said no Media until the seaon. I know they can't cuz they gotta give media access and say the same crap to try to sell tickets, but I ain't buying no hype.

Hey how do you actually feel about the team this year? Forget about HYPE! Do you like the team or NOT? I really can't figure out how some of you guys stand, except for all the negative attitudes some of you express towards the team. I actually LIKE this team. I think they're MUCH better than they showed last year and NOW they've even added role players to the mix. I think despite the general feeling in the media that he's just a mediocre signing, Jared is EXACTLY what the doctor ordered for this team. A more experienced version of Lee. A guy who is a glue type guy. Does all the little things and can pass well too. He'll keep the ball moving which is something i've always liked about Lee's game. Now we have a guy like that on the floor ALL THE TIME. I'm happy about the new offensive scheme. I've always been a fan of more player movement. More picks for our guards and more back cuts for easy baskets. I like the idea of advancing the ball in the air more and running whenever possible. I like the idea of better spacing which we never had last year. That is a feature of the offenses Isiah will be using. This will cut down on the Fouls & TO's that Curry would get on offense. He'll have more freedom to move or easy outlet options to pass if the double comes. Jared will be there as a big target as will Frye. In general Steph, Francis and Jamal should THRIVE in this offense, with all the help they'll be getting to get open. On Defense there will be less shifting and more man to man. I think in the end that will be better for this team. Its not as complicated and will force guys to have to dig in on their man. We won't be great on D, but I think we'll be better.

Those of us who like the team and are optimistic are that way for VALID REASONS. This isn't just some blind allegiance to the team.
eViL
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8/30/2006  11:45 PM
Posted by Nalod:

THEY SUPPOSE TO BE IN SHAPE!

Its not asking too much to come to camp prepared.

138million in salary and we gonna give them a cookie for coming to camp prepared!

And we gonna get jacked about this?

Hell no im not jacked. Win 10 games out the block im jacked. Gonna watch them win or lose. Lose not so much if they pull the same crap again.

I go to work and bang out the mortgage, tuition, car payment and else and nobody writing me up! If I don't, and go belly up its gonna hit the papers!

Im suppose to do my job and fulfil my obligations.

Phuch this hype propoganda BS! In fact, be better if they just said no Media until the seaon. I know they can't cuz they gotta give media access and say the same crap to try to sell tickets, but I ain't buying no hype.

I agree 100%.
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Bippity10
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8/31/2006  8:55 AM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Nalod:

THEY SUPPOSE TO BE IN SHAPE!

Its not asking too much to come to camp prepared.

138million in salary and we gonna give them a cookie for coming to camp prepared!

And we gonna get jacked about this?

Hell no im not jacked. Win 10 games out the block im jacked. Gonna watch them win or lose. Lose not so much if they pull the same crap again.

I go to work and bang out the mortgage, tuition, car payment and else and nobody writing me up! If I don't, and go belly up its gonna hit the papers!

Im suppose to do my job and fulfil my obligations.

Phuch this hype propoganda BS! In fact, be better if they just said no Media until the seaon. I know they can't cuz they gotta give media access and say the same crap to try to sell tickets, but I ain't buying no hype.

Hey how do you actually feel about the team this year? Forget about HYPE! Do you like the team or NOT? I really can't figure out how some of you guys stand, except for all the negative attitudes some of you express towards the team. I actually LIKE this team. I think they're MUCH better than they showed last year and NOW they've even added role players to the mix. I think despite the general feeling in the media that he's just a mediocre signing, Jared is EXACTLY what the doctor ordered for this team. A more experienced version of Lee. A guy who is a glue type guy. Does all the little things and can pass well too. He'll keep the ball moving which is something i've always liked about Lee's game. Now we have a guy like that on the floor ALL THE TIME. I'm happy about the new offensive scheme. I've always been a fan of more player movement. More picks for our guards and more back cuts for easy baskets. I like the idea of advancing the ball in the air more and running whenever possible. I like the idea of better spacing which we never had last year. That is a feature of the offenses Isiah will be using. This will cut down on the Fouls & TO's that Curry would get on offense. He'll have more freedom to move or easy outlet options to pass if the double comes. Jared will be there as a big target as will Frye. In general Steph, Francis and Jamal should THRIVE in this offense, with all the help they'll be getting to get open. On Defense there will be less shifting and more man to man. I think in the end that will be better for this team. Its not as complicated and will force guys to have to dig in on their man. We won't be great on D, but I think we'll be better.

Those of us who like the team and are optimistic are that way for VALID REASONS. This isn't just some blind allegiance to the team.

I've said how I feel about the team upwards of 75,000 times. They are a talented team. A team talented enough to win 50 games. But because of ego we are stuck hoping they win 40. They have the ability to go out and give us a great season. On paper you look at this team and think wow this could be a lot more fun this year. Unfortunately games aren't played on paper. They are played on the court. This team has as much ability to give us a great season as it does to completely quit and worry about themsselves like it did last year. So I think that I speak for most rational fans when I say enough hype from management and agents trying to sell tickets by telling us how great they are. Get your asses on the court and prove it to us. You won 23 games last year, most rational fans don't place all the blame on LB. We place much of the blame on the players. They need to get it done. After winning 23 games you get no props and cheers until you prove it on the court.

Nalod hit the nail on the head. All offseason we are sitting with baited breath praying that our guys come to camp in shape even though that is their job. We are dying waiting for reports telling us that guys aren't fat. Doesn't that tell you something about the state of the KNicks. Did you ever sit back waiting for reporst about Ewing or Oakley or Starks' workout programs. Of course not, because you just assumed they would come to camp in shape. It wasn't news. Now it's news. It fills us with unbearable happiness to hear a guy is working out, even though as Nalod said it is their job. All you guys that respond to these reports with glee are just as apprehensive as the rest of us you just don't realize it.

Noone is negative. The players just aren't getting standing ovations until they get it done on the court. I'm pretty sure that's fair, but I'm sure someone will tell me that it's not and that I'm just a negative fan hoping his team loses so that I can prove LB was the man and maybe he will hear my postings fall in love with me and I can be the king of the negative gay fans.
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Bippity10
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8/31/2006  8:57 AM
After last season I am assuming that every player will come into camp in great shape. It was all LB's fault last year and now he is gone. Why would they not come to camp in the best shape of their lives? Why would I even be worrying about it.

THE EXCUSE IS GONE FELLAS!
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rvhoss
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8/31/2006  11:39 AM
nixluva...keep carrying the torch...the good thing about bip is that he's such a flopper, when the knicks are doing well, he'll just say..

"I repeat, see my post from [insert date] I always said the had the talent to win 50!!"

However, if the team does not do well it's...

"I repeat, see my post from [insert SAME data as above] I always said that they would be lucky to win 40!!"

Between him, fish and martin, one thing is for sure...they are praying the knicks do well.

That's all I get from it...bashing their favorite team is what they do to provoke conversation. They can't really be buying that crap they are selling, because any non knick fan agrees with everything they type.

I repeat, any NON knick fan agrees with everything that they type.
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Allanfan20
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8/31/2006  11:43 AM
Bip, you're right. Coming into camp in shape used to be a complete given in Knick land, and still is around the league. I remember back from even 2002 and below, everyone would come into shape and we'd say "Big deal" but if someone was out of shape, it would hit the front paper and all the fans would be pissassed. Now a lot of the fans flat out think it's cute. What has it come down to???
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
rvhoss
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8/31/2006  12:15 PM
It's not that alot of fans think it's cute, it's that we are actually paying attention to the history of the franchise and the pure disarray we were in a short 2.5 years ago.

That team "pre Isiah" had a bunch of fatty's...and this year we are turning the corner.

Why that is so bad, I have no idea.

Baby steps.

The point of contention is that most of the negative posts are reactions to a post that applauds moves in the right direction.

It's like it's a crime to say, "good job he's working out".

If you look, you'll notice each of the naysayers are attempting to beat the kool aid out of us.

And I don't understand the obsession with ensuring nobody is optimistic or rooting for the team.
all kool aid all the time.
Allanfan20
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8/31/2006  12:21 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

It's not that alot of fans think it's cute, it's that we are actually paying attention to the history of the franchise and the pure disarray we were in a short 2.5 years ago.

That team "pre Isiah" had a bunch of fatty's...and this year we are turning the corner.

Why that is so bad, I have no idea.

Baby steps.

The point of contention is that most of the negative posts are reactions to a post that applauds moves in the right direction.

It's like it's a crime to say, "good job he's working out".

If you look, you'll notice each of the naysayers are attempting to beat the kool aid out of us.

And I don't understand the obsession with ensuring nobody is optimistic or rooting for the team.

First off, we had Sweetney who was known to be a workhorse in college, and Weatherspoon. What other guys were fat before that team? And don't even mention Ewing. He was in shape his entire career until '99 when he was president of the players association.

Secondly, the "Optimists" aren't saying "Good job." It seems more like "WOWOWOWOWOWOWOW!!!!!!! This is a great sign of amazing things to come! Knicks '06-'07 baby!!!!!"
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
martin
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8/31/2006  12:25 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

It's not that alot of fans think it's cute, it's that we are actually paying attention to the history of the franchise and the pure disarray we were in a short 2.5 years ago.

That team "pre Isiah" had a bunch of fatty's...and this year we are turning the corner.

Who are these fatties that you speak of? Only when Isiah came in did we get them. Vin Baker, Curry, JJ, MoT.

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rvhoss
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8/31/2006  1:33 PM
hey, I'm not saying before t hat team, I'm talking about the EXACT team you mentioned with weathersppon and sweetney...fatty's.

First off, the fact that you attempted to reword the statement to be before that fatty team is funny though.

Secondly, the "Optimists" aren't saying "WOWOWOWOWOWOWOW!!!!!!! This is a great sign of amazing things to come! Knicks '06-'07 baby!!!!!" It seems more like "Good job."

Nice use of caps and exclamation points btw.


Now get back to hatin!!
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Bippity10
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8/31/2006  1:48 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

nixluva...keep carrying the torch...the good thing about bip is that he's such a flopper, when the knicks are doing well, he'll just say..

"I repeat, see my post from [insert date] I always said the had the talent to win 50!!"

However, if the team does not do well it's...

"I repeat, see my post from [insert SAME data as above] I always said that they would be lucky to win 40!!"

Between him, fish and martin, one thing is for sure...they are praying the knicks do well.

That's all I get from it...bashing their favorite team is what they do to provoke conversation. They can't really be buying that crap they are selling, because any non knick fan agrees with everything they type.

I repeat, any NON knick fan agrees with everything that they type.

I could care less about the victory guessing game. To me winning 32 or 42 is no different. That stuff is for the fantasy fans. I worry about the direction of the franchise and whether they are moving in the direction of winning a title. RVHoss I can bring up that post again where I gave you my exact thoughts on the team and players if you need to refresh your memory and stop lumping me with other posters. Don't make me bring it up again. You will be sorry. For 2 years they have not thought about the future. They have tried to half-asse and win now while also rebuilding. Now they are seeing the error of their ways and are making some changes. The most ironic thing about it all is I screamed for role players and defensive players last year and was echoed by some others. We were called negative idiots who hate the team. Then Isiah goes out and finally gets defensive role players like we asked for(and were called negative about) and he is a genius while we are still called pessimists. I'm not sure of the definition of irony but I'm using it here nonetheless.

Again, still waiting for someone to point out my negativity. I asked the question will the players rebel against Isiah? I brought in past recent history as well. I offered no personal opinion whether they would or not. I clearly said 15 or 16 times that I have no clue whether they will or not. If you view this as negative it means that you believe in the possibilities of rebellion and therefore are the negative one. So in your face!!!! Burn!!!!!!!

My take is simple and doesn't change. We have a 50 win roster and are hoping ot win 40 games. This doesn't mean I hate the roster it means changes definitely still need to be made. Everyone seems to agree with me so where's the argument. I have no idea what to expect from this team. Not a frigging clue. Once again 30 wins to me is the same as 40. If we show mental progress. A dedication to team and the game and win 20 games then I will be a hell of a lot happier than winning 40 games and everyone being an individual and not buying into the team concept.

Definitions
Optimist: Everything was LB's fault. He's gone so we are automatically better.

Pessimist: It was LB's fault, the GM's fault and the players fault. That's fine now you have what you want. You have the coach you want. Since we are fans we are happy that there is another obstacle removed and that you have the coach you want. This is what we want. We want conditions to be right for you. So now that you have the perfect conditions prove to us that you are a real team. You will not be cheered for using LB as an excuse. Prove it on the court, not in the offseason.
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Bippity10
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8/31/2006  1:50 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

hey, I'm not saying before t hat team, I'm talking about the EXACT team you mentioned with weathersppon and sweetney...fatty's.

First off, the fact that you attempted to reword the statement to be before that fatty team is funny though.

Secondly, the "Optimists" aren't saying "WOWOWOWOWOWOWOW!!!!!!! This is a great sign of amazing things to come! Knicks '06-'07 baby!!!!!" It seems more like "Good job."

Nice use of caps and exclamation points btw.


Now get back to hatin!!

Hoss and we were complaining about those guys back then. And guess what. Back then we were called pessimists. Funny how three years later you finally admit that we were right.
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Nalod
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8/31/2006  1:57 PM
Nix,

I don't feel anything about this team because its all on paper.

Only Jarred is new and I can only go on last year.

Im not feeling it quite yet.

Good for you if you are! Carry the torch man, keep it lit for the rest of us. Its just knicks!
Bippity10
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8/31/2006  2:05 PM
Posted by Nalod:

Nix,

I don't feel anything about this team because its all on paper.

Only Jarred is new and I can only go on last year.

Im not feeling it quite yet.

Good for you if you are! Carry the torch man, keep it lit for the rest of us. Its just knicks!

word! Thank you.
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nixluva
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8/31/2006  2:31 PM
You know its just funny that you guys aren't willing to at least admit that this team is better than it was when Isiah came here. Isiah has made mistakes and that's more than obvious, however not everything he's done has been bad. Last year in particular I don't fully blame him for. If we had a coach who was sincerely trying to win from day one. Things would have been a little different. Not saying that we'd have won big, but 23 games would not have happened.

I think we have the answer to the question of are we moving in the right direction. I believe we are. Why would you think not when we've added so many 1st rd picks to the team in such a short time? If you didn't have last season's debacle, the attitudes around here would be much different. We have flaws and I don't think that could be avoided with the path we had to take to get here. Still we got an almost loaded young team in just 2.5 seasons and that is pretty darn good. This team has more than enough talent to be a competitive team in the East. With a coach that actually cares about winning this team should do well.
martin
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8/31/2006  2:38 PM
Posted by nixluva:

You know its just funny that you guys aren't willing to at least admit that this team is better than it was when Isiah came here.

Better? No. More potential? Yes. Atlanta and the Clipp for like 10 years running also had the same things in youth and athletisism and high draft picks. Only thing that matters is wins, and by all account, Isiah's record with the team has dropped every seaon.

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8/31/2006  3:11 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by rvhoss:

It's not that alot of fans think it's cute, it's that we are actually paying attention to the history of the franchise and the pure disarray we were in a short 2.5 years ago.

That team "pre Isiah" had a bunch of fatty's...and this year we are turning the corner.

Who are these fatties that you speak of? Only when Isiah came in did we get them. Vin Baker, Curry, JJ, MoT.

C Spoonful, Mike Sweetney, Dennis Scott, Chris "Fatboy" Childs, Glen Rice, Erik Strickland, Felton Spencer, Demarco Johnson (who never made the team due to weight issues), LJ (I loved the guy but towards the end of his career he was as plump as the Pillsburry Doughboy). I remember after the Ewing trade, Jim Rome was joking that Layden is trying to collect as many fat people as possible to replace Ewing's presence in the paint.
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martin
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8/31/2006  3:41 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by martin:
Posted by rvhoss:

It's not that alot of fans think it's cute, it's that we are actually paying attention to the history of the franchise and the pure disarray we were in a short 2.5 years ago.

That team "pre Isiah" had a bunch of fatty's...and this year we are turning the corner.

Who are these fatties that you speak of? Only when Isiah came in did we get them. Vin Baker, Curry, JJ, MoT.

C Spoonful, Mike Sweetney, Dennis Scott, Chris "Fatboy" Childs, Glen Rice, Erik Strickland, Felton Spencer, Demarco Johnson (who never made the team due to weight issues), LJ (I loved the guy but towards the end of his career he was as plump as the Pillsburry Doughboy). I remember after the Ewing trade, Jim Rome was joking that Layden is trying to collect as many fat people as possible to replace Ewing's presence in the paint.

that's a funny list (LJ, Strickland?)and covers more than just Layden. Isiah had Spoon and Sweets on the roster when he came and then added a ton of loafers.
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