Posted by nixluva:

I'm not sure why so many are seemingly EXPECTING things not to work! What is it about this roster that makes you guys so sure that thhis team isn't going to be competitive in the East and especially in the Atlantic? Who are these monster teams that you're all so worried about us beating? From what I can see all this team needs is a CLEAR direction and time to jell.

Posted by nixluva:

I'm not sure why so many are seemingly EXPECTING things not to work! What is it about this roster that makes you guys so sure that thhis team isn't going to be competitive in the East and especially in the Atlantic? Who are these monster teams that you're all so worried about us beating? From what I can see all this team needs is a CLEAR direction and time to jell. We have the players. Its not about the talent. We also have some smart players as well. Its not like all the players are lacking fundamental BB skills and BB knowledge. They're young not stupid! There's a difference. Its not just about THIS YEAR, but the years to follow. We'll take some positive steps this year and that should lead to more later.

Steph, Francis, Jared, Frye and Curry is a solid starting 5. Then you have Jamal, Lee, Nate etc. We have a good bench. Its not like we have a bunch of scrubs. Anyone we put in the game should be capable. Then there's the offense which is a FAR better fit for this roster than what we've seen in the past. Isiah also stresses D, but he won't have us making all those switches which led to a lot of wide open baskets. I think focusing on Steph and Francis is missing the point. THE WHOLE TEAM should be much better. And we won't have to worry about Isiah going away from the Kids since those are the very players he LOVES and give him the BEST chance of winning.

Posted by Allanfan20:

marbury is going down with the ship...so he's not going anywhere.

What makes you say that. Isiah is fighting for his job

Posted by wsdm:

Posted by LongIslandKnicksFan:

The only guy worthy of wearing the #3 Jersey is John Starks. Case Closed.

I don't know. I think people idolize Starks a bit too much for a guy who had only 2 or 3 good seasons in his entire career. It's probably because the team has been so awful this decade and everything last decade looks brilliant now.

[Edited by - wsdm on 08-28-2006 7:35 PM]

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by nixluva:

I'm not sure why so many are seemingly EXPECTING things not to work! What is it about this roster that makes you guys so sure that thhis team isn't going to be competitive in the East and especially in the Atlantic? Who are these monster teams that you're all so worried about us beating? From what I can see all this team needs is a CLEAR direction and time to jell. We have the players. Its not about the talent. We also have some smart players as well. Its not like all the players are lacking fundamental BB skills and BB knowledge. They're young not stupid! There's a difference. Its not just about THIS YEAR, but the years to follow. We'll take some positive steps this year and that should lead to more later.

Steph, Francis, Jared, Frye and Curry is a solid starting 5. Then you have Jamal, Lee, Nate etc. We have a good bench. Its not like we have a bunch of scrubs. Anyone we put in the game should be capable. Then there's the offense which is a FAR better fit for this roster than what we've seen in the past. Isiah also stresses D, but he won't have us making all those switches which led to a lot of wide open baskets. I think focusing on Steph and Francis is missing the point. THE WHOLE TEAM should be much better. And we won't have to worry about Isiah going away from the Kids since those are the very players he LOVES and give him the BEST chance of winning.

#1 we haven't won since 2000. Optimists are expecting 35-38 wins. That's still losing my friend. I am not even suggesting that anything will happen. I am raising possibilities and trying to see what people think on their own. This is how you build a team(it's hard to fathom because we haven't tried yet). You analyze your weaknesses(not ignore them like some like to do) and you accentuate your strengths. I hope Isiah is discussing the possibility of problems over minutes. I hope he is thinking like me and developing contingency plans. I pray he is not an "optimist" thinking everything will be great. Because if so, we are doomed.

nixluva:It's okay to not think everything is fine. You won't have to turn in your Knick fan card. Nobody on this site questions the Knicks talent. What we question is there desire, work ethic, focus and team attitude. Until they show this to us on more than a 6 game winning streak during a 23 win season they will not get the benefit of the doubt from the majority of the fans. They aren't saying the Knicks are definitely going to collapse(some are, but most predictions fall in the same 32-38 win area so what's the beef optimist or pessimist?) but they just aren't going to cut the players slack until they prove it to us.

Again, I don't have to cheer for these players to prove to them I am a real Knick fan. they have to play hard to prove to me that they are Real Knicks.

Posted by Allanfan20:

Posted by wsdm:

Posted by Allanfan20:

Posted by wsdm:

Posted by LongIslandKnicksFan:

The only guy worthy of wearing the #3 Jersey is John Starks. Case Closed.

I don't know. I think people idolize Starks a bit too much for a guy who had only 2 or 3 good seasons in his entire career. It's probably because the team has been so awful this decade and everything last decade looks brilliant now.

[Edited by - wsdm on 08-28-2006 7:35 PM]

Dude, how old are you? The Knicks 10 years ago were one of the most feared teams in the league. Heck, in the '97 season, Starks was the 6th man of the year and if it weren't for the brawl, we could have won a championship.

In the 1990s, we probably were literally "1 player away." Then we finally got a few players and then the brawl happens, and then the years after, Ewing gets too old and goes downhill. So don't mind me saying, but those years were great to be Knick fans, even if we didn't win the championship. And compared to now, you're damn right they were brilliant.

The teams from 1990-2000 would take our current team to school. I was watching game 5 against Miami today, that was in '99. That team was less talented but would still kill us so bad it would be ugly.

Starks was awesome--BRIEFLY

When did I even mention the word awesome in that post???

*I* am saying he was awesome (but for a very brief period)

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by Allanfan20:

1st of all the solid play by this team was actually longer than the 6 games they actually won. The only thing that seemed to disrupt things was the injury to Steph. The team was indeed very fragile and couldn't deal with the loss of Steph at that time. Not to mention that I don't agree with the way LB was using the players before the streak and after Steph got injured.

First off, nobody agreed with what LB was doing. But secondly, that playing well and hard streak was actually about 7 games. They played real good against Milwaukee but lost. Then they got blown out by Toronto to break the streak, then Steph went down the game after and it was total downhill from there. The team completely gave up and then Steph sure didn't help when he started making his dumb media comments. Same goes for Brown. He added feul to the fire. That's why I question this team. It's the attitude and work ethic. Why do we want players that will ONLY play hard for Isiah anyway. If that's the case, I seriously have to consider these guys desire and love to play the game.

In addition he's been working with Aguirre who knows exactly what Isiah wants Curry to work on in order to be more effective in his system this year.

I think every Knick fan in the world knows exactly what Curry needs to work on. He needs to work on his court vision so he can pass out of the doubles and triples. He needs to make better decisions. He needs to get in shape. He needs to put a better effort on the defense and rebounding. All of that is on him. Has very little to do with footwork. 80% of his charges last year were b/c of his failure to spot the doubles and triples.

Also you mentioned the upcoming sophomores and nobody here disputes their desire to win and become good. It's questioning their ability to improve their weaknesses that are really glaring. Lee is a tweaner, or so it seems, Frye's defense is questionable, and Nate is always overly rambunctious.

We have the ability to be a good team, but we also have the ability to be even worse than last year. Don't mind me being "Pessimistic" about a 23 win team.

I could deal with everything you said up until you made that last statement. There is only one way this team will end up worse than last year, a rash of injuries to key players. You're proving my point that last year has tainted the minds of too many Knick fans. Please don't let that mess warp your opinion of this team. That was the absolute WORST set of circumstances for this young team. 8 new players and a new coach. Then add in a super tough opening schedule and a Coach who isn't coaching to win. That combination of issues won't happen again. Isiah being more of a players coach should make things a LOT less confrontational at the start.

I'm not trying to say this is a championship team right now. I just think that we're good enough to be a winning team and make the playoffs with a chance to advance. In that belief I know i'm going to be in the minority, but its honestly how I feel about this team. I expect that this team will play more like the team that won those 6 straight games than the team that looked lost most of the year. This team has playoff talent and just needs to be coached by someone who actually LIKES the players and is looking for ways to make them succeed. If you guys aren't paying attention to that you really are missing out on what's happening with this team. Last year is in the past and things are different now. They're much BETTER. They're how things should've been.

Nixluva once again, for the final time to all you big babies that bristle anytime anyone says anything that isn't all gold about the kNicks. I am not making predictions. I am analyzing the team, seeing their weaknesses and strengths and pointing them out. Its up to you to draw your own conclusion. If you think the fact that our guys quit last year is a direct result of LB and that it's all fine now than that is okay that's your opinion. Noone is saying don't have that opinion. But also don't get on the other guy who feels differently. They're opinions dude.

My take is this. I feel this team is talented enough to win 50 games. The fact that we are all(including Knicks players) hoping to sneak in as a 6,7 or 8 seed is a telling message to the problems iwth our roster. It shows the potential for us to be another disaster. Last year shows how fragile we are. One man, made 12 others completely and utterly collapse. I am like you I feel things will be better under Isiah. They can't be worse. But the fact that they utterly collapsed last year means that the team has the potential to utterly collapse again. I think that's pretty indisputable. I'm not saying they will but if you think Isiah is ignoring the possibility than It hink you are naive. We have to tiptoe and do everything right around these guys in order to get them to play hard. That's not a championship caliber team. We need to build around guys that can play and win through the worst adversity. If the Yugo's a few years back could win the Eurochampionship while their country was being bombed to the stone ages and their relatives are being slaughtered than I expect my 50 win talent to at least win 30 games when someone is being mean to them. Anyone that is not mentally strong enough to keep up during the tough times needs to be purged and purged before they start affecting our young players.

Or we can just do like the pessimists say and get rid of Malik and Jalen and only the guys we hate and pretend everything will be fine.