Last year was a dangerous precedent and we fans allowed it to happen and even applauded it. When players don't get what they want, we said it was perfectly okay to not produce. Now maybe they accept everything Isiah throws at them, but maybe they rebel for a second year in a row. We won't know till next year but the possibility is out there for another implosion. It's all on the players. They decide how they will handle this.

Posted by BlueSeats:

Phase one of the problem is when players start carping about minutes, phase two of the problem is when Marbury tries to exhibit leadership.

While his fans and critics have been waiting years for him to utter words like "lets hang together for Isiah and the fans" they will ring shallow and hypocritical to many on the team who will question where his resolve was last year when his mutinous antics helped secure our second worst record in franchise history. And he will have no answer for why he wasn't out there for "The Gipper" when it it was Lenny and Herb's time to take a fall.

There will be players who question why he shows fair weather resolve, and who wont mind seeing his relationship with Isiah exposed as unhealthy.

Francis is another dude who's leadership and motives will be questioned, as his former club. orlando, will likely continue blooming in the sun now that his dark cloud has been banished. One "insiders" report (a poster who claimed to know a player who was on our SL squad) had Francis only coming to practice once or twice a wek and showing up with liquor on his breath. Yet he and Stiffbury are expected to carry us?

Anyone else who showed leadership last year can be expected to be on the block this year. Most trade rumors center around Malik and Q, but their trade value is low. Thus, any target of worth will probably have to include Crawford, since he's one of the only tradable contracts of measure. With JC, Malik, Q, Rose and Mo perennially on the block that eliminates alternative veteran leadership, and one can hardly expect any of this or last years rookies to fill the leadership vacuum.

This leaves Jeffries as the man to hold us together. The new guy, who's minutes and position on the floor are unknown, is expected to, in Isiah's words "bring chemistry" "balance us" and "make the group work." Yes, Jeffries, a guy Washington didn't want for his average NBA salary, and with know history or allegiance to anyone on this team but Isiah, will be expected to bridge the young with the old, the slothful with the ambitious, and the selfish with the generous. All while he tries to steal minutes at four positions on the floor.

Anyway, we know how things work with Marbury led teams. So long as they're winning and he gets all his entitlements the team has a chance to make a run, but as soon as adversity strikes fingers start pointing, accountability goes out the window, locker rooms divide, and people start planning their exit strategies.

Lets hope this team gets off to a quick start, and the Marbury/Isiah loyalists can trumpet out their "I told you so's", and we'll never have to look back. But if at any point we're playing .350 ball such that Isiah's future with the club appears tenuous, look out, cause we could start plummeting toward the gates of hell faster than Eddy Chubby can say "Super Size me."

Posted by BlueSeats:

Phase one of the problem is when players start carping about minutes, phase two of the problem is when Marbury tries to exhibit leadership.

While his fans and critics have been waiting years for him to utter words like "lets hang together for Isiah and the fans" they will ring shallow and hypocritical to many on the team who will question where his resolve was last year when his mutinous antics helped secure our second worst record in franchise history. And he will have no answer for why he wasn't out there for "The Gipper" when it it was Lenny and Herb's time to take a fall.

There will be players who question why he shows fair weather resolve, and who wont mind seeing his relationship with Isiah exposed as unhealthy.

Francis is another dude who's leadership and motives will be questioned, as his former club. orlando, will likely continue blooming in the sun now that his dark cloud has been banished. One "insiders" report (a poster who claimed to know a player who was on our SL squad) had Francis only coming to practice once or twice a wek and showing up with liquor on his breath. Yet he and Stiffbury are expected to carry us?

Anyone else who showed leadership last year can be expected to be on the block this year. Most trade rumors center around Malik and Q, but their trade value is low. Thus, any target of worth will probably have to include Crawford, since he's one of the only tradable contracts of measure. With JC, Malik, Q, Rose and Mo perennially on the block that eliminates alternative veteran leadership, and one can hardly expect any of this or last years rookies to fill the leadership vacuum.

This leaves Jeffries as the man to hold us together. The new guy, who's minutes and position on the floor are unknown, is expected to, in Isiah's words "bring chemistry" "balance us" and "make the group work." Yes, Jeffries, a guy Washington didn't want for his average NBA salary, and with know history or allegiance to anyone on this team but Isiah, will be expected to bridge the young with the old, the slothful with the ambitious, and the selfish with the generous. All while he tries to steal minutes at four positions on the floor.

Anyway, we know how things work with Marbury led teams. So long as they're winning and he gets all his entitlements the team has a chance to make a run, but as soon as adversity strikes fingers start pointing, accountability goes out the window, locker rooms divide, and people start planning their exit strategies.

Lets hope this team gets off to a quick start, and the Marbury/Isiah loyalists can trumpet out their "I told you so's", and we'll never have to look back. But if at any point we're playing .350 ball such that Isiah's future with the club appears tenuous, look out, cause we could start plummeting toward the gates of hell faster than Eddy Chubby can say "Super Size me."

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Last year was a dangerous precedent and we fans allowed it to happen and even applauded it. When players don't get what they want, we said it was perfectly okay to not produce. Now maybe they accept everything Isiah throws at them, but maybe they rebel for a second year in a row. We won't know till next year but the possibility is out there for another implosion. It's all on the players. They decide how they will handle this.

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I don't think that anyone has said that it is okay for players to revolt (or at least, I have not). I think the issue last year was not so much about total minutes as it was about a consistent rotation pattern. Everyone wants to play and be a starter, but the reality is that if you have 15 players on a roster, 3 players will be inactive and only about 9-10 players are going to get any meaningful minutes. While no player wants to be player 10-15, they at least understand that someone has to be in those slots. The problem last year was that in one game a player was number 15, in the next game he was starting, and in the next game he was player 9 (and if he was in his hometown, he was the number 1 guy). These changes would happen for no other apparent reason other than the whims of LB. That is frustrating for a player, especially for someone who thinks he should be starting. It is one thing to say after training camp that these are our top 9 players and everyone else is only going to get sporadic minutes but play hard when you get in and play hard in practice and you might earn more minutes. Most players can accept that (although there are some guys who will complain regardless), and just work hard to try to earn more minutes. However, to say to a player play hard, but regardless of how you play, you might play 10 minutes one game, start the next game, be a DNP coach's decision the next game, players are not going to accept that from the coach. The players need defined roles and defined expectations for the season. Now this year some players may not be happy with their role, but at least, they will know what it is, which is alot easier to accept.



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In theory you are correct. But in practice (buzzer noise). NBA players that know they can play 25-35 minutes a night somewhere are not going to be happy sitting on the pine. And they are really not going to be happy about not playing for the team if we aren't winning. I know it's just easier to dismiss it, but the possibility for a revolt is definitely there. Blueseats hit it on the head. This is a situation that would be a problem for any team. But especially for a team that has 3, 4 or 5 guys that are known to biotch about systems and minutes. Steve Francis said "their would be problems" if he is not getting minutes this year. Judging by the fact that his career average is 38 minutes I can guarantee you he is not looking for less. Neither is Marbs. And to think they will be happy with 30 night after night I think you are naive. So okay, these guys start. Now you have Jalen and Q and Nate and Jamal(especially Jamal) guys that can play 25-35 minutes for any team in the league and you are going ot tell me they are going to be happy with 0-15 minutes for a team that might not make the playoffs? It's not definite but if you don't think that this is at least a possibility than you are either living in kool-aid land or are convinced that the only problme we have ever had is LB. Have fun this season.

Blueseats hit the nail on the head. Our start will determine our season. If we start out well, francis and Marbs will do their thing and lift us to mediocrity and competition for an 8th seed. I admit that they are so good that they will have the ability to lead a team with 50 win talent to an 8th seed. I agree they can do this 100%. But god forbid somehting goes wrong. A slow start. Injuries. Who's lifting this team up. Who on the bench is not going to whine? How are Q and Malik going to be a voice of reason from the bench.

The more I work this stuff out in my head the more obvious it becomes that this is the last chance for so many guys on this team. You just hope they realize it.

Posted by TheGame:

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Last year was a dangerous precedent and we fans allowed it to happen and even applauded it. When players don't get what they want, we said it was perfectly okay to not produce. Now maybe they accept everything Isiah throws at them, but maybe they rebel for a second year in a row. We won't know till next year but the possibility is out there for another implosion. It's all on the players. They decide how they will handle this.

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I don't think that anyone has said that it is okay for players to revolt (or at least, I have not). I think the issue last year was not so much about total minutes as it was about a consistent rotation pattern. Everyone wants to play and be a starter, but the reality is that if you have 15 players on a roster, 3 players will be inactive and only about 9-10 players are going to get any meaningful minutes. While no player wants to be player 10-15, they at least understand that someone has to be in those slots. The problem last year was that in one game a player was number 15, in the next game he was starting, and in the next game he was player 9 (and if he was in his hometown, he was the number 1 guy). These changes would happen for no other apparent reason other than the whims of LB. That is frustrating for a player, especially for someone who thinks he should be starting. It is one thing to say after training camp that these are our top 9 players and everyone else is only going to get sporadic minutes but play hard when you get in and play hard in practice and you might earn more minutes. Most players can accept that (although there are some guys who will complain regardless), and just work hard to try to earn more minutes. However, to say to a player play hard, but regardless of how you play, you might play 10 minutes one game, start the next game, be a DNP coach's decision the next game, players are not going to accept that from the coach. The players need defined roles and defined expectations for the season. Now this year some players may not be happy with their role, but at least, they will know what it is, which is alot easier to accept.



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In theory you are correct. But in practice (buzzer noise). NBA players that know they can play 25-35 minutes a night somewhere are not going to be happy sitting on the pine. And they are really not going to be happy about not playing for the team if we aren't winning. I know it's just easier to dismiss it, but the possibility for a revolt is definitely there. Blueseats hit it on the head. This is a situation that would be a problem for any team. But especially for a team that has 3, 4 or 5 guys that are known to biotch about systems and minutes. Steve Francis said "their would be problems" if he is not getting minutes this year. Judging by the fact that his career average is 38 minutes I can guarantee you he is not looking for less. Neither is Marbs. And to think they will be happy with 30 night after night I think you are naive. So okay, these guys start. Now you have Jalen and Q and Nate and Jamal(especially Jamal) guys that can play 25-35 minutes for any team in the league and you are going ot tell me they are going to be happy with 0-15 minutes for a team that might not make the playoffs? It's not definite but if you don't think that this is at least a possibility than you are either living in kool-aid land or are convinced that the only problme we have ever had is LB. Have fun this season.

Blueseats hit the nail on the head. Our start will determine our season. If we start out well, francis and Marbs will do their thing and lift us to mediocrity and competition for an 8th seed. I admit that they are so good that they will have the ability to lead a team with 50 win talent to an 8th seed. I agree they can do this 100%. But god forbid somehting goes wrong. A slow start. Injuries. Who's lifting this team up. Who on the bench is not going to whine? How are Q and Malik going to be a voice of reason from the bench.

The more I work this stuff out in my head the more obvious it becomes that this is the last chance for so many guys on this team. You just hope they realize it.

I am not disagreeing with your statement that playing time can become a major problem. I just wanted to point out that the problems from last year were more about the inconsistent rotation than they were about lack of minutes. This year I think IT is going to give Marybury and Francis 32-35 minutes a game. They may not like it, but I don't think either is going to revolt over a 3-5 minute reduction in minutes, especially with us playing at a faster pace. Thus, Crawford can get roughly 23-25 minutes a game. I agree that he is not going to be happy, but I don't think he is going to revolting either. Nate is going to get squeezed and will be unhappy, but he is a second year player and is just going to have to wait his turn. A second year player picked in the 20's should not be able to cause a revolt. At SF, Jefferies and Q-Rich and Jalen are going to split minutes. This is going to be a problem, but hopefully Jalen is the one to lose minutes because he only has 1 year on his contract and we can either buy him out or "Hardaway" him (as a prior poster once put it). Fyre and Lee are going to split time at PF and I doubt either will be complaining. Curry and JJ are going to split at center and JJ1 is just happy to get a check. Malik Rose and M. Taylor are likely to be bench warmers, but Malik is professional enough not to cause a revolt and Taylor is in his last year and can be bought out or "Hardawayed." Could there be major problems? Yes and I agree that minutes will be a year-long issue unless someone gets hurt. But there are alot teams in the league that have players on the bench who are unhappy with their minutes. As long as the players' roles are clearly defined, I think (and hope) IT can handle the situation. I agree that winning will be a big factor in this. If the team goes 4-16 in the first 20 games, there WILL be a real problem. But the reality is, if this team goes 4-16 with IT as coach with an offense geared toward the players' strengths, then we have bigger problems that simply a lack of minutes and the team needs to be broken up.

Here is a perfect example of what I am talking about. Charlie Ward.
Charlie Ward once came into camp playing the best ball of his career. The season started and Charlie averaged nearly a double, double. He was so thoroughly outplaying Howard Eisley that most were wondering why Howard was playing at all let alone 15 minutes a game. If you remember correctly what happened next? Don Chaney tried to explain to us that Howard was struggling to play off the bench and needed to start(my guess is Layden/dolan told him he had to play) to produce. Not only did Charlie go to the bench but he also started playing less minutes than the guy he was clearly outplaying. Some nights he would barely play at all. Somenights he would play only the fourth quarter. Some nights you'd see him in the first half and barely see him in the fourth. Then his role became the designated fourth quarter guy, then it wasn't. It was constant change. But all the while he was splitting minutes at a position that he had earned. I'm sure he was upset. I'm sure he was confused. But what did he do? He put the team first and busted his arse regardless. Many people accuse him of being a bad player and overmatched. But the guy was never accused of taking a night off.

could you imagine the response from our guys if they lost minutes to a lesser player for the "good of the other player". They would go ballistic. Outside of the rookies no one would put up with that. Well this year some of that is going to be going on. What will be the reaction? Will they buck up and be men. Or will they play the role confusion card and once again have another excuse for turning 50 win talent into a 20-30 win team.