Posted by Nalod:

Riles took over a team in LA that was ready made.

He is a good motivator who kills his players in practice (wore them out) and by playoff time they were cooked. Except for this year.

His motto is not for players to lay back in the off season and turn it on come playoff time.

He dispises that notion but allowed it this year.

Larry has been successful in the past when allowed to mold a team in his image. Was successful with a mature core group in Detroit.

Was unsuccessful when dangled 50 mil, Isiah was wrong to hire him, Isiah was wrong to make promises he could not keep, Larry was wrong to take on this team, and boom you have what you have.

I equally blame Isiah and Larry for last season in my opinion.

Riles x's and o's are weak but a master motivator. The knick teams he had gutted it out on emotion because that the only way they could play at a high level. In retrospect the choke they did is not suprising. They were not a fundamentally strong team except for a few players.

Having Mase and Starks who neither came from winning programs as very important cogs were destined to not complete the championship as they never succeeded under pressure from storied programs.

Larry Johnson was a national champion and given his background in college prepared him to change his career. Mourning, Ewing, Mutumbo all succeeded at some levels both on and off the court as they graduated from the John Thompson school of being a man, then a player.

With a core of Eddy, Steph, and Francis we don't have much leadership. Frye and DLee have had the right coaching and background and in time can lead. Nate must have hung out at Chuck-E-Cheese too much.

My fear is with Marbury around no other player can ever step up as he is such a strong persona that he won't allow it. His strenght is raw and in your face intimidating.

Shaqs comments the last few days about defering leadership to DWade and how in retrospect should have allowed it with Kobe says alot about the man and his maturity.

We can hope Steph is on that path.

And the game will decide in time.

Posted by holfresh:


Nalod I agree with you..Let's hope that Fyre and Curry and step up this year...I think these are the guys that can be a foundation for the team for the next 7 years....So let's hope it begins this year...I think Marbs is more willing than people give him credit for...I think he tried under Brown but the public bashing was just too much...

Posted by nixluva:

You know its funny but to hear you guys talk about Steph, you'd think he never passes the ball and kills a teams offense. Well in his 1st year here he avg'd 9.3 assists and that was low due to the adjustment period after he lost Van Horn and Doleac. Not to mention H2O going down. He had to be passing the ball a lot to get that many assists. The thing is that he's not a perfect player with a great personality. So people tend to understate his game and make it seem like he's not capable of helping a team. I think he was well on his way to helping this team last year just before he got hurt.

12/30 Vs. Mil 23pts/12asts/2reb/3 stls
1/2 Vs. PHX 32pts/10asts/5reb/1stl
1/6 Vs. Wash 16pts/11asts/2reb/1stl
1/8 Vs. Sea 23pts/15asts/1reb/4stls
1/10 Vs. Cle 22pts/5asts/5reb/1blk
1/11 Vs. Dal 28pts/6asts/4reb/
1/13 Vs. Atl 19pts/9asts/5reb/4stls
1/15 Vs. Tor 18pts/13asts/3reb

Then he got hurt and was never able to get fully healthy. After that he was up and down and then mostly down until they shut him down for the year. He's MORE than capable of playing at or near this level all the time. Its just gonna take having the support of his coach and help from his teammates. In regard to his teammates, I expect them to be better than last year and more consistent. He's not a selfish player as so many want to make him seem. When hes on the court with players that can execute, he gives them the ball. All the stats prove that. What he gets killed for is not trusting players that can't get it done. So over the years when he's been on bad teams he's looked to do things himself. Well that won't be the case this year, cuz this is a good young team. I expect we'll see the best of Steph this year.



[Edited by - NIXLUVA on 08-23-2006 2:55 PM]

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by nyk4ever:

Let's get something straight. When the going got tough for Riley with the Heat, he quit and became the General Manager, he didn't want to coach a group that didn't have a shot at the title. What happens when the teams is ready for a title run? He comes right back and fires the current head coach who got to Game 7 of the Eastern Finals. Lets also remember some of the names Riley has coached with the Lakers and the Heat: Magic, Worthy, Kareem, Byron Scott, Shaq, DWade, thats a pretty damn good group of guys to coach. A coach is only as good as the players that fit his system, imagine if Phil Jackson couldn't get the players that fit his triangle offense, it just wouldn't work and he certainly wouldn't change his style because thats his bread and butter and it's won him 9 rings.

The problem with New York is that when you get here, the fans forget all about what made you successful and they immediately want you to change into what THEY want you to be. Shaq's got his head on straight, no one can say Shaq isn't a winner. Shaq is one of the best players in basketball history and he took a backseat to Wade for the better of the team, so that they could win and they did win with Shaq playing 2nd fiddle. Shaq knows what it takes to win in this league and he knows how to accomplish those goals with a team aspect in mind, Stephon Marbury has absolutely no clue about either of those subjects and he never will because he's too concerned about stats and his street cred.

I don't agree. Pat Riley has been THE guy in Miami and he has built two title contenders. To match Pat Riley's success in almost any sport would be hard to do. I don't think it was a crime to take some time off to manage the team from the outside, I mean he is the guy in charge--he does what is best for the team. The guy is a winner's winner. There is no negative about Pat Riley--the guy may be the best head man for any organization in any sport. The absolute WORST DECISION by the NY knicks was not keeping Riley and putting him in charge of everything at any cost. It's worse than anything I can think of in 30 years.

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by MS:

Lets get something straight Marbury sucks, and hes an *******

He isn't a top 5 pg in the league and since his declaration the knicks haven't sniffed 500, and got swept out of the playoffs by the nets and we have become the disgrace of the nba.....so when a 4 time NBA champion and one of the best of all time makes a statement that everyone believes........

Larry is a little bitch we all no that, but he could have made the team better if they bought into an intial system, he had a terrible team to work with with no one looking to step up

I'm tired of LB and his drama. I'm also tired of so called Knick fans who aren't keeping up with what's going on with the team. This is a NEW team! It started last year and now we have even more new players. So WHY do so many of us live in the past? Many of the players have only been here for a year or less.

Just becuase you and some others don't like to deal with reality, doesn't mean the rest of us do the same. Keep telling yourself that you're POSITIVE things will be different even when the key players of this team; Marbury, Francis, Curry, all have terrible attitudes towards the game of basketball and have no changed one single bit from the teams that they've been on in the past. Like it or not, this team go as far as these players take them, not the other way around.

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by nyk4ever:

Let's get something straight. When the going got tough for Riley with the Heat, he quit and became the General Manager, he didn't want to coach a group that didn't have a shot at the title. What happens when the teams is ready for a title run? He comes right back and fires the current head coach who got to Game 7 of the Eastern Finals. Lets also remember some of the names Riley has coached with the Lakers and the Heat: Magic, Worthy, Kareem, Byron Scott, Shaq, DWade, thats a pretty damn good group of guys to coach. A coach is only as good as the players that fit his system, imagine if Phil Jackson couldn't get the players that fit his triangle offense, it just wouldn't work and he certainly wouldn't change his style because thats his bread and butter and it's won him 9 rings.

The problem with New York is that when you get here, the fans forget all about what made you successful and they immediately want you to change into what THEY want you to be. Shaq's got his head on straight, no one can say Shaq isn't a winner. Shaq is one of the best players in basketball history and he took a backseat to Wade for the better of the team, so that they could win and they did win with Shaq playing 2nd fiddle. Shaq knows what it takes to win in this league and he knows how to accomplish those goals with a team aspect in mind, Stephon Marbury has absolutely no clue about either of those subjects and he never will because he's too concerned about stats and his street cred.

I don't agree. Pat Riley has been THE guy in Miami and he has built two title contenders. To match Pat Riley's success in almost any sport would be hard to do. I don't think it was a crime to take some time off to manage the team from the outside, I mean he is the guy in charge--he does what is best for the team. The guy is a winner's winner. There is no negative about Pat Riley--the guy may be the best head man for any organization in any sport. The absolute WORST DECISION by the NY knicks was not keeping Riley and putting him in charge of everything at any cost. It's worse than anything I can think of in 30 years.

You hit it right on Briggs. This team has suffer and will continue to suffer from 1995. I don't really blame Dolan, Cablevision just acquired MSG. Checketts, IMHO, is a man more crafty at being a con man than Thomas, sold Dolan on the fact that between him and Checketts they could manage to replace Riley, get better and not miss a step. Enter Don Nelson. Riley should have been kept at all cost including removing both Checketts and Grunfeld if that was his desire (which it was). Riley made this type of demand after a year being removed from the NBA finals, Brown made his request during 23 win campaign. Maybe that is a UNC thing because George Karl made similar threats with the Sonics and the Bucks at the worst possible time.

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by nyk4ever:

Let's get something straight. When the going got tough for Riley with the Heat, he quit and became the General Manager, he didn't want to coach a group that didn't have a shot at the title. What happens when the teams is ready for a title run? He comes right back and fires the current head coach who got to Game 7 of the Eastern Finals. Lets also remember some of the names Riley has coached with the Lakers and the Heat: Magic, Worthy, Kareem, Byron Scott, Shaq, DWade, thats a pretty damn good group of guys to coach. A coach is only as good as the players that fit his system, imagine if Phil Jackson couldn't get the players that fit his triangle offense, it just wouldn't work and he certainly wouldn't change his style because thats his bread and butter and it's won him 9 rings.

The problem with New York is that when you get here, the fans forget all about what made you successful and they immediately want you to change into what THEY want you to be. Shaq's got his head on straight, no one can say Shaq isn't a winner. Shaq is one of the best players in basketball history and he took a backseat to Wade for the better of the team, so that they could win and they did win with Shaq playing 2nd fiddle. Shaq knows what it takes to win in this league and he knows how to accomplish those goals with a team aspect in mind, Stephon Marbury has absolutely no clue about either of those subjects and he never will because he's too concerned about stats and his street cred.

I don't agree. Pat Riley has been THE guy in Miami and he has built two title contenders. To match Pat Riley's success in almost any sport would be hard to do. I don't think it was a crime to take some time off to manage the team from the outside, I mean he is the guy in charge--he does what is best for the team. The guy is a winner's winner. There is no negative about Pat Riley--the guy may be the best head man for any organization in any sport. The absolute WORST DECISION by the NY knicks was not keeping Riley and putting him in charge of everything at any cost. It's worse than anything I can think of in 30 years.

You hit it right on Briggs. This team has suffer and will continue to suffer from 1995. I don't really blame Dolan, Cablevision just acquired MSG. Checketts, IMHO, is a man more crafty at being a con man than Thomas, sold Dolan on the fact that between him and Checketts they could manage to replace Riley, get better and not miss a step. Enter Don Nelson. Riley should have been kept at all cost including removing both Checketts and Grunfeld if that was his desire (which it was). Riley made this type of demand after a year being removed from the NBA finals, Brown made his request during 23 win campaign. Maybe that is a UNC thing because George Karl made similar threats with the Sonics and the Bucks at the worst possible time.

Posted by nixluva:

Shaq wasn't on the team last year and has no idea what LB said to them or how he expected them to play. A coach probably never asked Shaq to play a style like that of Center who shoot jumpers and take people off the dribble. Cuz its not his game. Likewise I think LB has a very rigid definition of what certain players can an should do. In particular the PG. The problem is that his BEST player was a PG that doesn't thrive playing a traditional PG role. SO that required someone to change or compromise. It also required that we had other players who could successfully fulfill their roles in a traditional offense. Most of our players are also hybrid types. So to me LB is the one who failed to come up with something that would work for his personnel. If Pat Riley coached like LB he would never had been able to get to the Finals with the Knicks or win a title with the Heat. He's won with TOTALLY different rosters and in TOTALLY different styles.

I like what Shaq and Zo said from a certain standpoint, but in THIS particular situation they're wrong. LB didn't have the kind of players that could run his system and he was going to want wholesale changes in the roster, which would be near impossible. So the Coach was wrong in this case. In training camp he knew this team couldn't run his system, so that should've made him make some adjustments to find a way to win with what he had. He instead chose to make a point to ownership and in essence tanked the season.