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What makes us better than the Celtic?
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nixluva
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8/21/2006  12:53 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by nixluva:


Frye and Curry are SO MUCH better at scoring that it will easily make them the more dominant combo over Jefferson and Perkins. Frye was actually pretty decent rebounding for a rookie. Perkins has been in the league 3 years and Jefferson 2. We'll have to see if Frye improves as he goes along. To me its not like Curry and Frye have no ability to rebound. Its more about focus and technique. Frye needs better technique and strength and Curry just needs more focus. He's had big rebounding games, he just doesn't always focus on his job. True Curry and Frye don't have that natural hunger for the ball, but I think overall they'll be far more productive than Jefferson and Perkins.


Time after time you make posts and you talk about what players are good and the only that you base it on is scoring. Scoring points is not the only stat in basketball and its probably one of the most overated stats there is.

Tell me were the Celtics a good defensive team? NO!!!! So Jeff and Perk show a bit of rebounding ability. Overall Frye and Curry are clearly BETTER players. Frye and Curry have a chance to warp opposing defenses. Curry even in his flawed state still demands a double. Frye showed that if a team isn't focused on him that he'll light them up. Despite your lack of appreciation for what they do, they have an impact on the game. Both are clearly starter material. Do they need to improve their rebounding, yes, but its actually easier to do that than become a great offensive player.



[Edited by - NIXLUVA on 08-21-2006 1:01 PM]
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joec32033
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8/21/2006  1:06 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by nixluva:


Frye and Curry are SO MUCH better at scoring that it will easily make them the more dominant combo over Jefferson and Perkins. Frye was actually pretty decent rebounding for a rookie. Perkins has been in the league 3 years and Jefferson 2. We'll have to see if Frye improves as he goes along. To me its not like Curry and Frye have no ability to rebound. Its more about focus and technique. Frye needs better technique and strength and Curry just needs more focus. He's had big rebounding games, he just doesn't always focus on his job. True Curry and Frye don't have that natural hunger for the ball, but I think overall they'll be far more productive than Jefferson and Perkins.


Time after time you make posts and you talk about what players are good and the only that you base it on is scoring. Scoring points is not the only stat in basketball and its probably one of the most overated stats there is.

Tell me where the Celtics a good defensive team? NO!!!! So Jeff and Perk show a bit of rebounding ability. Overall Frye and Curry are clearly BETTER players. Frye and Curry have a chance to warp opposing defenses. Curry even in his flawed state still demands a double. Frye showed that if a team isn't focused on him that he'll light them up. Despite your lack of appreciation for what they do, they have an impact on the game. Both are clearly starter material. Do they need to improve their rebounding, yes, but its actually easier to do that than become a great offensive player.

Clearly is an absolute misnomer here. Curry is "clearly" a better scorer than Jefferson or Perkins. Frye is also "clearly" a better shooter than Jefferson or Perkins.
"Clearly" starter material based on scoring? Richardson averaged 15 points a game for PHX, did this "clearly" make him a starter? Gordon averaged 17 per game for Chi, did this "clearly" make him the starter? Dell Curry averaged 16 pts per for Charlotte back in the day, was he "clearly" a starter?

Offense is half the story, Curry and Frye are superior offensive players but it does not make them "clearly" better. Channing grabbed 5.8 rebounds per, he definately has alot of potential in the area, but he has to work at it. He was drafed as a 22 yr old, while Perkins and Jefferson were drafted at 18.

[Edited by - joec32033 on 08-21-2006 1:09 PM]
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nyk4ever
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8/21/2006  1:24 PM
Posted by nixluva:



Tell me were the Celtics a good defensive team? NO!!!! So Jeff and Perk show a bit of rebounding ability. Overall Frye and Curry are clearly BETTER players. Frye and Curry have a chance to warp opposing defenses. Curry even in his flawed state still demands a double. Frye showed that if a team isn't focused on him that he'll light them up. Despite your lack of appreciation for what they do, they have an impact on the game. Both are clearly starter material. Do they need to improve their rebounding, yes, but its actually easier to do that than become a great offensive player.



[Edited by - NIXLUVA on 08-21-2006 1:01 PM]

Where did I say that Curry and Frye aren't good offensive players. Curry is a nice offensive player when he finds a way to stay out of foul trouble and on the floor. The point I was trying to make was that just because they can score doesn't mean there better players than Perkins/Jefferson. Do I think they are better than Perkins/Jefferson, yes I do, although I think Jefferson is probably the best player out of the four we're talking about. As Joe just said, offense only tells you half the story, just because you can score doesn't make you great or even good, it is when you combine that scoring with the other facets of the game is when you are GOOD. Unfortunately right now Curry and Frye do nothing but score.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 08-21-2006 3:24 PM]
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Allanfan20
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8/21/2006  3:04 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

simple...we were better than them last year (as fish says, watch the games).

Our front court is better and we have people that can guard paul pierce now, so IMHO we are better than the celtics.

Are you serious? We haven't had anybody who could guard Paul Pierce since he came into the league. NOBODY. Not Spewell, Houston, Marbury, Crawford, Penny or Quentin. Maybe Jefferies, but I haven't watched the Wizards/Celtics games so I don't know. I'm sure he can hold his own. Pierce has always played well against the Knicks. And in case you have short term memory, the Celtics have had our number for quite sometime including last season. It's been kind of annoying actually.
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nyballer
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8/21/2006  3:33 PM
I like our young guys more than their young guys overall, but we have more chemistry issues than them because of the make up of the team. Rondo is also going to be a very good point guard for that team - if their players pan out they could be a very dangerous team.
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daddynel
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8/21/2006  4:48 PM
"He was drafed as a 22 yr old, while Perkins and Jefferson were drafted at 18."
not to say that the celtics are'nt better than us, but they were all 22 last year and avg'd about the same amount of rebs, and frye avg'd much more in points than both. (as a rookie ofcourse)
rvhoss
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8/21/2006  8:04 PM
If Jeffries can supposedly (sp?) guard lebron (didn't he average 35ppg?) I'm pretty sure he can guard paul pierce.

Balkman can take over when jeffries is tired...so NOW we have someone that can guard paul pierce.

didn't frye and curry average more rebounds last year and frye was a rookie and got hurt and curry was out of shape. 13/6 and 12/6 from players that supposedly suck and one is a rookie that will definitely get better and the other is already better than both...currently averaging more rebounds than both.

the two celtic front court players are clowns. Snap out of it...and we have a 3 big rotation tossing in lee who has had some big plays against the celtics already.

Is there another big the celts have? Or are these to 5/5 players all you got? if so, then we're waaaaaay better than he celts.

Offense has been discussed, but for this comparison, for some reason it means nothing, but rebounding our two are still better.

Games last year:
There is the 25 point blow out where curry put up 20/8 and qwoods was being showcased by FLB.

The opener where Curry put up 8 boards. The 3 point loss when marbs got 35 and QRich got 13 rebounds

and we killed them once when Crawford (after he got out of prison) put up 31 points and pulled down 11 boards.

Right now all they got is paul pierce and a bunch of young players...we have much much more.

I'm not even gulping kool aid.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 08-21-2006 8:05 PM]
all kool aid all the time.
BigC
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8/21/2006  9:39 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

simple...we were better than them last year (as fish says, watch the games).

Our front court is better and we have people that can guard paul pierce now, so IMHO we are better than the celtics.

We don't have anyone that can stop Pierce! Artest can't hold Pierce and neither can anyone on this team. I remember Pierce laugh at Artest when Artest was trying to guard him.

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daddynel
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8/21/2006  9:43 PM
i think he meant GUARD paul pierce, not stop. nobody can flatout stop pierce, nobody can stop marbury either. but few players are completely unguardable. we DO have good defenders now. we'll see.
nixluva
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8/21/2006  11:00 PM
I like the young players the Celtics have. I think they're one of the teams with a LOT of upside. I just think our Bigs are better. IF the Celtics Bigs can stay on the court longer and put up impressive numbers then that will REALLY help that team. I feel we'll get enough rebounding and D from our bigs to go along with their Far better offense to make us the clear winner in comparison to their bigs.

I think we can expect much more from our guys this year. For one thing we know that at least Curry has been working on his game and his body this summer, which he wasn't able to do last summer. If he comes to camp in shape and ready to go, I expect him to have a much better year. Frye I already expect to be a more confident player and with him getting starter minutes he'll likely put up good numbers as well. Lee we already know is one of the best young rebounders in the game. He was one of the top reb/min guys in the league last year. Jeffries will help us by being the versatile role player we need. I just really like our guys and I see no reason to be pessimistic about them this coming season.
joec32033
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8/21/2006  11:57 PM
Posted by daddynel:

"He was drafed as a 22 yr old, while Perkins and Jefferson were drafted at 18."
not to say that the celtics are'nt better than us, but they were all 22 last year and avg'd about the same amount of rebs, and frye avg'd much more in points than both. (as a rookie ofcourse)

Perkins was drafted 3 years ago and will be 22 on Nov 10-http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kendrick_perkins/index.html.
Jefferson was drafted 2 years ago and was 21 on Jan 4-http://www.nba.com/playerfile/al_jefferson/index.html

Frye was drafted last year and was 23 on May 17th (during the season)http://www.nba.com/playerfile/channing_frye/index.html

Frye-May 17, 1983
Jeff-Jan 4, 1985
Perk-Nov 10, 1984

Frye came out after 4 years of college and was basically a ready made big man, Perk and Jefferson came out after high school.
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TheGame
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8/22/2006  2:01 AM
I like Perkins and Jefferson and think they will both be good players. However, Curry and Frye IMO are better players right now and have more potential. Fyre is the best shooter of the bunch, will improve as a rebounder and defender, and can block some shots. Curry demands a double team and is Shaq-like in his shooting percentage and ability to wreck havoc in the paint. Curry and Frye both need to improve in several areas but their potential is high. Perkins and Jefferson are good young players, but I don't see them becoming as good as Frye and Curry COULD be (although Perkins will probably always be the best shot-blocker of the group). The real question is which pair of big men will actually reach their potential.
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Marv
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8/22/2006  6:20 AM
telfair to green:
Marv
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8/22/2006  6:22 AM
and again . . .

nixluva
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8/22/2006  10:34 AM
OK so they know how to run an alleyoop. Until Green improves enough to be more than a hightlight reel I could care less. The Celtics have certainly brought in a LOT of young talent. So we'll see if it all adds up to a good team this year. Like the Knicks they have a lot of promising young players, but have yet to put it all together. Its going to be fun watching these two teams play each other.
martin
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8/22/2006  10:45 AM
marv going nutty with the new YouTube funcationality. Nice.
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nyk4ever
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8/22/2006  10:46 AM
Posted by martin:

marv going nutty with the new YouTube funcationality. Nice.

Who said old people couldnt get a grip on technology.
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martin
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8/22/2006  10:51 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by martin:

marv going nutty with the new YouTube funcationality. Nice.

Who said old people couldnt get a grip on technology.

dude, don't think for a second that Marv hasn't contemplated selecting a whole bunch of files in Windows Explorer, right-clicking and choosing Copy and thinks he can unplug the mouse and move it to another computer and right-click again and select Paste to move the files to the new computer.
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Marv
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8/22/2006  12:07 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by martin:

marv going nutty with the new YouTube funcationality. Nice.

Who said old people couldnt get a grip on technology.

dude, don't think for a second that Marv hasn't contemplated selecting a whole bunch of files in Windows Explorer, right-clicking and choosing Copy and thinks he can unplug the mouse and move it to another computer and right-click again and select Paste to move the files to the new computer.

if you're drinking enough it DOES work!
MaTT4281
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8/22/2006  12:09 PM
Posted by Marv:

telfair to green:



Can't tell who that is throwing the ally oop, but it'd be difficult for Telfair to do it since he was traded to Boston this summer...
Sorry, just got up in a nitpicking sort of mood. Carry on.
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