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RealGM: Dolan Discourages Isiah From Adding More Salary
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nyk4ever
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8/19/2006  1:47 PM
This is exactly the reason I think its complete BS when people say "its not your money." They're right, its not my money, but I got a problem with our GM signing players to ridiculous contracts, because eventually Dolan was going to have enough and apparently he has. Just because its not my money doesnt mean I don't think the signing is good and apparently now Dolan is starting to tighten his budget. The team is millions upon millions over the cap with no end in sight and now Dolan won't even pay for more contracts? Who knows where this team is headed.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 08-19-2006 2:03 PM]
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wsdm
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8/19/2006  4:04 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

This is exactly the reason I think its complete BS when people say "its not your money." They're right, its not my money, but I got a problem with our GM signing players to ridiculous contracts, because eventually Dolan was going to have enough and apparently he has.
It's spin. They've been saying this for years as Layden and Isiah spended more and more. It will be the same with the next GM.

www.selltheknicks.com----No more DOLANOMICS!
Panos
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8/20/2006  8:35 AM
Posted by knicks1248:

Look we have already hit rock bottom...

Wishful thinking. We haven't hit rock bottom yet. That would be if Curry retired for health reasons and Marbury blew out his knee, resulting in our giving Chicago another 1-4 pick in next years draft. Then I think Isiah would be lynched.
misterearl
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8/20/2006  8:55 AM
Panos - would a lynching of Isiah Thomas make you happy?

No one can predict what will happen any more than Jermaine O'Neal being shopped by Indiana. If your only measure of progress is immediate results, perhaps you should look ahead four years when Channing Frye is 27, Eddy Curry is 28, David Lee is 27 and Jard Jeffries is 27... all in their PRIME.


"People don't come to see the salary cap play"

Getting under the "salary cap" is a wet dream of self-appointed amateur GMswho insist they have a better
strategy that would be viable in New York. So far, I remain unconvinced.

The salary cap is the penance of the Patrick Ewing 68MM contract and the subsequent trade for Glen Rice and expensive dreck. You get under the salary cap and you have... the Atlanta Hawks.


"Rock bottom" is only the wish of those defeatists who refuse to consider a work in progress.

Get better basketball players



[Edited by - misterearl on 08-20-2006 09:04 AM]
once a knick always a knick
Panos
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8/20/2006  9:24 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Panos - would a lynching of Isiah Thomas make you happy?

No one can predict what will happen any more than Jermaine O'Neal being shopped by Indiana. If your only measure of progress is immediate results, perhaps you should look ahead four years when Channing Frye is 27, Eddy Curry is 28, David Lee is 27 and Jard Jeffries is 27... all in their PRIME.


"People don't come to see the salary cap play"

Getting under the "salary cap" is a wet dream of self-appointed amateur GMswho insist they have a better
strategy that would be viable in New York. So far, I remain unconvinced.

The salary cap is the penance of the Patrick Ewing 68MM contract and the subsequent trade for Glen Rice and expensive dreck. You get under the salary cap and you have... the Atlanta Hawks.


"Rock bottom" is only the wish of those defeatists who refuse to consider a work in progress.

Get better basketball players



[Edited by - misterearl on 08-20-2006 09:04 AM]


Dude, what's your problem? Did I ever say I wished these things to happen? NO.
I just said that we are not at rock bottom. Things could conceivably get worse, just
as they could conceivably (probably) get better. There have been teams in the league
that have languished at the bottom of the barrel for years. We have not experienced that.
So lighten up.
misterearl
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8/20/2006  9:36 AM
Panos - no, I will not lighten up. For you to ONLY suggest a lynching of Isiah Thomas, if things get worse only smacks of the pervasive death wish for the upcoming season.

If you're going to put something out there, at least have the courage to stick with it and not run behind some excuse as if you intended something fair or balanced.

If the Knicks make the playoofs did you suggest Isiah receiving a contract extension?

No, you did not.

once a knick always a knick
wsdm
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8/20/2006  10:09 AM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by knicks1248:

Look we have already hit rock bottom...

Wishful thinking. We haven't hit rock bottom yet. That would be if Curry retired for health reasons and Marbury blew out his knee, resulting in our giving Chicago another 1-4 pick in next years draft. Then I think Isiah would be lynched.

That wouldn't be worse. Last year was rock bottom. That would just be a repeat of last year (except with better health excuses).
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BRIGGS
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8/20/2006  10:32 AM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by knicks1248:

Look we have already hit rock bottom...

Wishful thinking. We haven't hit rock bottom yet. That would be if Curry retired for health reasons and Marbury blew out his knee, resulting in our giving Chicago another 1-4 pick in next years draft. Then I think Isiah would be lynched.

I don't like the term lynched. I know you are a good kid and don't mean it in the terms of what some people may legitmately take as an offensive context. I do believe the premise with Eddy C. IF Eddy does have some kind of heart episode that ends his basketball career[or God forbid worse] I think that the Isiah Thomas regime is over. With all of this money spent, I would have to believe, from an owners point of view, that 45+ wins and s olid playoff showing is the only reasonable outcome to extend Isiah Thomas. I think he deserves his fair shake here. But I don't want to hear +16 games--we won 38 yadayada that is full-blown failure. Im not looking for improvement with a 130mm payroll, Im looking for return on my investment.
RIP Crushalot😞
wsdm
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8/20/2006  10:37 AM
Im looking for return on my investment.
Why would you assume *wins* are the return Dolan is looking for? It's dollars! They're slightly correlated but they're not the same thing. E.g., Francis has a good month, appears to have his head on straight: we know lots of fans are gonna buy Francis jerseys even if the team is only bordering .500.
www.selltheknicks.com----No more DOLANOMICS!
BRIGGS
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8/20/2006  10:49 AM
Posted by wsdm:
Im looking for return on my investment.
Why would you assume *wins* are the return Dolan is looking for? It's dollars! They're slightly correlated but they're not the same thing. E.g., Francis has a good month, appears to have his head on straight: we know lots of fans are gonna buy Francis jerseys even if the team is only bordering .500.

wins=money in any sport--- when you spend twice as much as the competition, you must expect a high win total-if you dont get it,you dont have the right management team in place. The Yankees have a high payroll but consistently win every year in a big way--there is no lock for any team in the playoffs, but win total is a good indicator on your franchise's health.
RIP Crushalot😞
Panos
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8/20/2006  11:10 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Panos - no, I will not lighten up. For you to ONLY suggest a lynching of Isiah Thomas, if things get worse only smacks of the pervasive death wish for the upcoming season.

If you're going to put something out there, at least have the courage to stick with it and not run behind some excuse as if you intended something fair or balanced.

If the Knicks make the playoofs did you suggest Isiah receiving a contract extension?

No, you did not.

Wow, man, you have freakin' issues.
All I said was that the Knicks organization was not at "rock bottom."
And I proceeded to describe a scenario that would make the situation worse.
The definition of rock bottom is one where you cannot get worse.
I did not in any way, shape, or form say I *hoped* that it would get worse.
If you think I did, show me my words that said that.

And what is this love affair you have with IT?
Let me ask you, if the situation I described did happen, would you continue
to want him on as GM? Does he get a pass no matter what happens?
wsdm
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8/20/2006  11:40 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by wsdm:
Im looking for return on my investment.
Why would you assume *wins* are the return Dolan is looking for? It's dollars! They're slightly correlated but they're not the same thing. E.g., Francis has a good month, appears to have his head on straight: we know lots of fans are gonna buy Francis jerseys even if the team is only bordering .500.

wins=money in any sport--- when you spend twice as much as the competition, you must expect a high win total-if you dont get it,you dont have the right management team in place. The Yankees have a high payroll but consistently win every year in a big way--there is no lock for any team in the playoffs, but win total is a good indicator on your franchise's health.
I think wins and money are related but not identical. I bet a sub .500 39 or 40 win team with lots of big name players can bring in more money than a 45 win team that doesn't have big names but is well put together and plays cohesively. I'd much rather have the latter but I bet Dolan would rather have the former. For example, which roster do you think would bring in more money (even if they played in the same city hypothetically): MIL or Philly (with Iverson, Webber, and a lottery pick while Mil was in the playoffs last year)?


[Edited by - wsdm on 08-20-2006 11:41 AM]
www.selltheknicks.com----No more DOLANOMICS!
misterearl
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8/20/2006  1:08 PM
Panos - you already have the noose prepared and Thomas being lynched. All you need now is an angry mob to make it so.

What does any random speculation over what will, or will not, happen during the upcoming season change about that?

Isiah must die.
once a knick always a knick
Marv
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8/20/2006  2:04 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Panos - you already have the noose prepared and Thomas being lynched. All you need now is an angry mob to make it so.

What does any random speculation over what will, or will not, happen during the upcoming season change about that?

Isiah must die.

not die.

just move on to the car wash already and let us move on.
misterearl
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8/20/2006  2:22 PM
>>Let "us" move on.

Marv - and Dolan's first hire would be who exactly?
once a knick always a knick
Marv
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8/20/2006  2:34 PM
don't need to name someone in particular to say i've had enough of a guy who picks up stevie and jalen when he's "rebuilding" and gives up a #2 pick and possibly another high lottery for eddy "not in a hurry" curry.
misterearl
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8/20/2006  2:39 PM
Marv - oh yes you do.

Dolan needs all the help he can get in making his next major move

C'mon... just three candidates...
once a knick always a knick
Panos
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8/20/2006  2:42 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Panos - you already have the noose prepared and Thomas being lynched. All you need now is an angry mob to make it so.

What does any random speculation over what will, or will not, happen during the upcoming season change about that?

Isiah must die.

If the above described scenario happened, pretty much everyone
would want him to move on except for you, rvhoss and holfresh who would still be making
excuses for him.

BTW, You're the one making this an IT thing. My point was about what is
rock bottom and what is not. See the Clippers of the 90's or Atlanta of this decade.
They've been at rock bottom. We have not.



[Edited by - panos on 08-20-2006 2:44 PM]
misterearl
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8/20/2006  2:47 PM
Panos - its not about making "excuses" for anyone. It's about assessing the fact that the Knicks are different franchise from any other one in the NBA. Have been for years that predate Isiah's tenure.

There is no precedent for getting rid of such a salary structure overnight when you have the added pressure to validadte the revenue stream and make the playoffs.

The quick-fix is not in.

Better buckle your seatbelt and allow the frontcourt to mature.

ETA - 2008-09
once a knick always a knick
Panos
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8/20/2006  2:49 PM
Whatever, man. I say apples, you say oranges. We're getting nowhere.
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