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Chad Ford's Article Regarding the Knicks' Offseason
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nyk4ever
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8/17/2006  12:29 PM
Posted by nixluva:

Nalod you're only looking at things in the recent past from the results and that's fine, but initially no one thought that LB's time here would be AS BAD as it turned out to be. Before last season, Isiah had only been on the job for 1.5 seasons!!!!!!! Lets repeat that, ONE AND A HALF SEASONS! Just what is it that he was supposed to have accomplished in such a short time? A perfect team? Heck the real problem was that we never got to see Steph and H2O play together. So Isiah switched gears and started to rebuild the team with young players. So last year he broke away from the H2O-KT era and added a good number of young players and HOF coach. I don't care how badly the players were matched with the coach, LB COULD and SHOULD have done a better job. He CLEARLY sabotaged the season to make a point. Even his best friends didn't understand what LB did. That is NOT Isiah's fault.
How did Isiah switch gears to build with young players when he traded for MoT, Malik Rose, Jalen Rose, Steve Francis? Isiah's gameplan has been as erratic as Browns substitution patterns and he constantly flips back and forth about whether this team is rebuilding. Let's not forget that Isiah also traded 2 unprotected picks for Eddy Curry, one of them turning out to be Tyrus Thomas, one of the best players in college basketball last year and a defensive hound. He also signed Jerome James to a immense contract when James had proved nothing to the league. It seems like you've conveniently left those things out of your Isiah-lovefeast.
So now after just 2.5 seasons, Isiah has continued to improve the team and this time he's added a bunch of role players who fit into the holes in our roster and add that glue we need. So I don't see things in the way you and some others do. 2.5 seasons ago we had NOTHING to look forward to and now we have a lot to look forward to. In fairness Isiah should've only had 1.5 years of bad results on his record here. Last year should've been the start of the rebuilding process. So I TOTALLY disagree with your assessment of things.

Are you directly related to Isiah? And just how has Isiah improved the team? Players like Stephon Marbury, Steve Francis Jamal Crawford are all part of the mold and last year counts on Isiah's resume becuase he's the one who hired Larry Brown. Isiah has done a absolute poor job at assembling this roster, and he's done a even worse job with FA signing and trades. In my estimation, Isiah has done one good thing since he got here and thats sign Jared Jeffries. Yeah, he's done a real great job.




[Edited by - nyk4ever on 08-17-2006 12:31 PM]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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Nalod
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8/17/2006  12:34 PM
Wow, your kool Aid Homer drinking is more indepth than I could ever imagined.

HOw has the team improved every year? Last year we won 23 games.

We have had plenty to look forward to and nothing of substance to say we succeeded.

If starphuching on paper is your benchmark of success your dolans kind of guy.

Isiah has given us the promise of better talent but delivered anything but.

His tenure win/loss record is awful, and the payroll management is a disaster.

Here is a benchmark: Wins@!!!!!!!!

We suck! There are reasons it could get better and logic says it should, but thats to be determined on the court, not on paper.
Masterplan
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8/17/2006  12:58 PM
"role players" seems to be a catchphrase with a bunch of IT fans since we got JJ. but who besides him have we brought in that fits that category? definitely not jalen and francis, or curry or JJ, or even qyntel or crawford (who i like a lot)- all stars in their own minds out to get theirs. dlee maybe, but no one gave IT props for bringing in role players when we drafted him, or even after this draft when we got guys with "role player" as their ceiling. some good role players we've gotten have been guys like dermarr johnson and jackie butler who unceremoniously left.

the frustrating thing about IT is he gives some indication of a plan- building around marbury, going young with a solid 2005 draft, adding role players- but whenever we hit a setback he panics and makes moves that only make things worse. i like a lot of the players he's brought in. but if they don't start clicking i agree his time should be up.

Nalod: what's the story behind your sig?
TheGame
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8/17/2006  1:03 PM
The reality is no one knows exactly what shape the Knicks are in, because no team could have won games under the conditions LB put the team under. If we had anyone other than LB at the helm, this team could have won 45 games or it might have won only 30, we don't know either way. At this point, all we really know is that the Knicks have the highest payroll in the league, the team is younger and has more pure talent than it did 3 years ago, and Isiah has made alot of moves (it is debatable whether those moves were good or bad). This season will tell us if those moves, as a whole, significantly improved this team from where it was when IT took over or whether it is time to start over and get rid of IT. I think IT deserves this next season to justify his moves before we start saying he has done a terrible job.
Trust the Process
Bippity10
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8/17/2006  1:33 PM
I'll sum up what shape the Knicks are in. We averaged 35 wins(approx) 3 years prior to this last one. When we get back to that 35 win total fans will be excited. I think that sums up what shape we are in.
I just hope that people will like me
nixluva
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8/17/2006  2:06 PM
TO ME its CRYSTAL CLEAR that this team is in a better position to win NOW than it was 2.5 seasons ago?
In just 2.5 seasons Isiah has added some very nice players to grow with. I like this group:

Curry 23
Frye 23
Lee 23
Jeffries 24

No GM is perfect but I think under the circumstances that Isiah has done a good job. The results haven't been there yet, but I believe that we should've started to see some good signs last year if not for LB. So you can bash him for his 1st 1.5 seasons, but last year was really more about LB than Isiah. Last year was supposed to be a building block year, but LB turned it into a fiasco. Shame on him for putting himself before the team. That won't be happening this year. Mark my words Isiah will be vindicated this year.




Masterplan
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8/17/2006  2:30 PM
Posted by nixluva:

TO ME its CRYSTAL CLEAR that this team is in a better position to win NOW than it was 2.5 seasons ago?
In just 2.5 seasons Isiah has added some very nice players to grow with. I like this group:

Curry 23
Frye 23
Lee 23
Jeffries 24

No GM is perfect but I think under the circumstances that Isiah has done a good job. The results haven't been there yet, but I believe that we should've started to see some good signs last year if not for LB. So you can bash him for his 1st 1.5 seasons, but last year was really more about LB than Isiah. Last year was supposed to be a building block year, but LB turned it into a fiasco. Shame on him for putting himself before the team. That won't be happening this year. Mark my words Isiah will be vindicated this year.

the problem with the youth IT's brought together is that they are surrounded by players no team wants any piece of. we've turned penny and TT and vin baker into jalen and francis and mo, with unmovables like Q and malik and JJ thrown in. the utter unwillingness to let any contract expire has meant that we never really turned the reins over to the youth. this is still steve and steph's team.
misterearl
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8/17/2006  2:44 PM
Masterplan - you, of all people should be able to decipher a master plan in progress

In four years Mo Taylor, Jalen Rose, Malik Rose, Stephon, Jerome James and even Quentin Richardson will be a distant memory while

Curry will be just reaching his prime years at 27

Frye will be an All-star at the ripe old age of 27

Lee will be absolutely KILLIN' cats at 27

Mardy Collins, at 25 will be in his second year as a starter

rastaman Balkman will lead the Knicks in jersey sales at 25

and Jeffries will be the "defensive player of the year" at 28

I really don't see any valid reason to be worried about their collective future
once a knick always a knick
oohah
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8/17/2006  2:45 PM
Posted by nixluva:

TO ME its CRYSTAL CLEAR that this team is in a better position to win NOW than it was 2.5 seasons ago?
In just 2.5 seasons Isiah has added some very nice players to grow with. I like this group:

Curry 23
Frye 23
Lee 23
Jeffries 24

No GM is perfect but I think under the circumstances that Isiah has done a good job. The results haven't been there yet, but I believe that we should've started to see some good signs last year if not for LB. So you can bash him for his 1st 1.5 seasons, but last year was really more about LB than Isiah. Last year was supposed to be a building block year, but LB turned it into a fiasco. Shame on him for putting himself before the team. That won't be happening this year. Mark my words Isiah will be vindicated this year.




Have you voted on the "who shuts everybody up?" thread yet?

http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=17175

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Nalod
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8/17/2006  3:07 PM
Eddy is 23 again?
Masterplan
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8/17/2006  3:42 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Masterplan - you, of all people should be able to decipher a master plan in progress

In four years Mo Taylor, Jalen Rose, Malik Rose, Stephon, Jerome James and even Quentin Richardson will be a distant memory while

Curry will be just reaching his prime years at 27

Frye will be an All-star at the ripe old age of 27

Lee will be absolutely KILLIN' cats at 27

Mardy Collins, at 25 will be in his second year as a starter

rastaman Balkman will lead the Knicks in jersey sales at 25

and Jeffries will be the "defensive player of the year" at 28

I really don't see any valid reason to be worried about their collective future


in FOUR YEARS? so now it's a seven year plan? we could have had every one of those players entering their prime without ever getting mo, francis, jerome, vin baker, maybe even without jalen. if IT's plan comes to fruition then, it is only his fault it took that long. i'm willing to wait, i'll still be a knicks fan in four years. but i'm not thrilled with waiting through four more years of trading expiring deals for other teams' garbage and reading of nothing but locker room conflict. not when it's totally avoidable.

IT's plan as i decipher it has been to grab the biggest name available and blame the coach for underperforming. i don't want four more years of it.
TheGame
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8/18/2006  9:56 AM
Regarding IT's plan, put it this way. If the Knicks make absolutely no moves for the next two years, the team's payroll will be down to around $75 million, with two large expiring contracts as trade assets, and 8 young talented players all under the age of 28 entering their prime. That is not a bad position to be in as a franchise. I agree that IT could have done somethings better, but hindsight is always 20/20. As a whole, I think the Knicks have a great chance to be a much improved team this year and in the future.
Trust the Process
nyk4ever
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8/18/2006  10:21 AM
Posted by TheGame:

Regarding IT's plan, put it this way. If the Knicks make absolutely no moves for the next two years, the team's payroll will be down to around $75 million, with two large expiring contracts as trade assets, and 8 young talented players all under the age of 28 entering their prime. That is not a bad position to be in as a franchise. I agree that IT could have done somethings better, but hindsight is always 20/20. As a whole, I think the Knicks have a great chance to be a much improved team this year and in the future.

Considering the amount of player movement that Isiah has done since he got here, which by the way has been extraordinary, what makes you think he will make no moves the next 2 years?
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
TheGame
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8/18/2006  10:36 AM
I have no doubt that the Knicks will make more moves. My point is that the franchise is positioned to be in very good shape in the near future (and even this season). I think IT had some growing pains in trying to determine exactly where he wanted to go with this team. However, this is no longer a team full of aged veterans with holes everywhere. This team only has a few cracks that need to be filled (despite the 23 win season). I think IT's future moves will be more effective than his past moves and hopefully IT realizes the need to get the team closer to the salary cap. I don't foresee the Knicks continually swapping expiring contracts for more long-term deals in the future (there may 1 or 2, but it won't be like it has been in past where ever expiring contract is traded for more salary).
Trust the Process
Masterplan
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8/18/2006  11:27 AM
Posted by TheGame:

Regarding IT's plan, put it this way. If the Knicks make absolutely no moves for the next two years, the team's payroll will be down to around $75 million, with two large expiring contracts as trade assets, and 8 young talented players all under the age of 28 entering their prime. That is not a bad position to be in as a franchise. I agree that IT could have done somethings better, but hindsight is always 20/20. As a whole, I think the Knicks have a great chance to be a much improved team this year and in the future.

just because something COULD happen in a few years doesn't make it a plan. if the plan was to cut salary from it's ridiculous and totally wasteful levels and invest in a team of youth, all IT's done is set it back by years. the guys and contracts holding us back now were IT's work, signed or traded for with expiring deals. i would love to see us cut the fat from our roster. will believe it's the plan when i see it.

about hindsight, the consistent critique of IT's moves has been reckless spending with no regard for chemistry. our current struggles are not hindsight, they are predictable. IT's running out of time to clean it up.
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