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Is this more financial overkill?
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misterearl
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7/31/2006  11:47 AM
Andrew - the operative word is "awkward"

At least make some attempt at originality

Do YOU like the Jeffries offer sheet?

once a knick always a knick
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franco12
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7/31/2006  11:47 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by misterearl:

Briggs - was it financial "overkill" for the Yankees to sign Abreu?

does 6'11 Jeffries make the Knicks defense better?

just curious

The last time I looked, the Yankees were 20 games over .500 and had multiple injuries to core players who play his position. The NY Knicks won 23 games last year.

Briggs- its a max MLE contract.

The deals killing this team are Marbury, Francis, Curry, Houston- max type deals.

Paying $5mm for someone like Jeffries isn't that bad.

Hopefully, after this year, some contracts start to expire and our team number moves down into a more 'normal range'.
misterearl
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7/31/2006  11:52 AM
franco12 - excellent point.

People avoid recognizing Houston contract coming off the books, with a few others, which can tip the balance of the payroll towards younger productive, players
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technomaster
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7/31/2006  11:52 AM
Yep, Jeffries doesn't need the ball to be have an impact-- he doesn't need big steals #s or big blocks #s to have an impact. His value comes in altering shots, altering passes, getting deflections, and overall, just making life a little more challenging for the offensive players.

I don't think Jeffries is a lock down defender - he's more of a pain in the butt w/ his long arms and legs as a help defender.

Balkman (and Ariza) are different types - they're smaller, a bit more mobile... those are guys that will get the steals, the blocks, and the athletic dunks. But they won't make their teammates better the same way Jeffries length would.
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misterearl
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7/31/2006  11:54 AM
>>Isiah is not managing the knicks and its fans. He is doing damage control to his career. Big conflict of interest in my opinion.

Nalod - how is winning basketball games a conflict of interest for Isiah Thomas?

[Edited by - misterearl on 07-31-2006 11:59 AM]
once a knick always a knick
BRIGGS
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7/31/2006  12:23 PM


Balkman (and Ariza) are different types - they're smaller, a bit more mobile... those are guys that will get the steals, the blocks, and the athletic dunks. But they won't make their teammates better the same way Jeffries length would.
[/quote]

Give me a break man. How tall is Bruce Bowen. Gosh, we won 23 games and we pick Balkman 20th--if he is what they say he is, no problems, we have our man. What the hll does Jefferies length have to do with anything? Does that mena he is going to block shots and rebound like Camby? shut down the other teams best player like Bowen? by the way how much $$ does bowen make? We really need another roster player without getting rid of someone? Or will they just start the buyout stuff again? you go Blakman, you hyped him up, we won 23 games, get him in there.
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nyk4ever
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7/31/2006  12:46 PM
No way no how would I have wanted Miles on this team. The guy is the epitamy of a loose cannon and the Knicks have enough selfish guys on the team as it is. Darius is a great talent but so far in his career he's never once showed that he has the ability to stay in one place due to his horrible attitude.
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Anji
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7/31/2006  12:59 PM

LOL, Butler was the next Mose Malone.
BUt curry only makes 8 million he's not killing the cap and neither will JJ-2. Marbury/Francis/Houston/Rose make about 70 million, those deals are killing the cap. BUt the knicks will never be under the cap, because they are not willing to stink for three four years.
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Nalod
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7/31/2006  1:06 PM
Posted by misterearl:

>>Isiah is not managing the knicks and its fans. He is doing damage control to his career. Big conflict of interest in my opinion.

Nalod - how is winning basketball games a conflict of interest for Isiah Thomas?

[Edited by - misterearl on 07-31-2006 11:59 AM]

Short term vs. long term strength. Winning more games of course is prefffered. ANd this team should even if you don't change a thing. Why, our rookies are more important and can be depended on more. Frye is legit as is DLee as big men.

Its not that I mind jefferies, and will reserve judgemnt until we see the final roster.
Rich
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7/31/2006  1:56 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Briggs - was it financial "overkill" for the Yankees to sign Abreu?

does 6'11 Jeffries make the Knicks defense better?

just curious


Big difference: no salary cap.
TheGame
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7/31/2006  2:03 PM
We should stick with Balkman, Lee, and Q at SF. IMO Jefferies is not going to add enough to this team to jusitify what we are paying him and the logjam that will be created at the SF spot. Adding Jefferies will hurt Balkman and Lee's ability to get PT. Is Jefferies that much better than Q and what Balkman looks like he can do? I don't think so, unless he comes into this season with a more advanced offense game so that teams don't play off of him.
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BRIGGS
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7/31/2006  2:06 PM
[quote]
Posted by Anji:


----> BUt the knicks will never be under the cap, because they are not willing to stink for three four years.



where have you been the last 5 years? we've stunk! average # of wins over 5 years=32.5! understand why some people have been hard and skeptical! its not like we trashed it and went for picks and lost weve TRIED to win and have always been #1 in payroll and still have lost quite badly! so at some point we get guys like trveor butler little nice young bit and pieces guys who cost nothing, yet were still out there OVERPAYING for either has been or overvalued players!
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Bippity10
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7/31/2006  2:10 PM
I think Jefferies gives you more line-up versatility. YOu can now put frye on the less mobile and Jefferies on the more mobile. You can use Lee to fill in for both and if he's good enough use Balkman to provide energy off the bench. It also gives you a line-up that provides great length,, cutting down the gaps and limiting teams ability to penetrate. This is imperative considering we don't have a true shotblocker and guards that don't play d. Plus outside of Curry none of the guys needs the ball to contribute. Strategically I see where Isiah is going with this one. Moneywise I'm trying to ignore all salaries we hand out because it pains me too much.

Where all this leaves Jalen, Mo, Malik and Q I'm not sure. Hopefully someone will be traded and the rest will sit on the bench only speaking up to cheer and pick up their teammates and not to complain about roles and give half an effort on the court only to be excused by fans who feel it's okay to quit when you are "disrespected" by inconsistent playing time. I love run-on sentences.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 07-31-2006 2:11 PM]
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Bippity10
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7/31/2006  2:10 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

[quote]
Posted by Anji:


----> BUt the knicks will never be under the cap, because they are not willing to stink for three four years.



where have you been the last 5 years? we've stunk! average # of wins over 5 years=32.5! understand why some people have been hard and skeptical! its not like we trashed it and went for picks and lost weve TRIED to win and have always been #1 in payroll and still have lost quite badly! so at some point we get guys like trveor butler little nice young bit and pieces guys who cost nothing, yet were still out there OVERPAYING for either has been or overvalued players!

Good post. I can't beleive that everyone isn't frustrated.
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fishmike
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7/31/2006  2:32 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

the thing the Knicks need to do is build a team that compliments one another. all we heard is that this team had too many guys who needed the ball to be effective, etc. Jefferies does not need the ball to be effective and fits into the running team this roster is molding into. he plays defense as well. will he mesh with the other guys? that's always impossible to tell until you see it on the court, but this team has plenty of offensive talent, it needs glue guys who make the team concept work. I'm not against this move at all.

but I do think Washington is matching this offer.
I agree. Jeffries doesnt need the ball to be productive. He would be a good fit. I doubt Washington matches. My only real fear is everything Isiah does usually sucks, so I'm wondering whats going to be wrong with Jeffries.

Its always a good laugh when people compare Isiah's moves to things the Yankees do. Thanks for that

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bippity10
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7/31/2006  2:37 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by crzymdups:

the thing the Knicks need to do is build a team that compliments one another. all we heard is that this team had too many guys who needed the ball to be effective, etc. Jefferies does not need the ball to be effective and fits into the running team this roster is molding into. he plays defense as well. will he mesh with the other guys? that's always impossible to tell until you see it on the court, but this team has plenty of offensive talent, it needs glue guys who make the team concept work. I'm not against this move at all.

but I do think Washington is matching this offer.
I agree. Jeffries doesnt need the ball to be productive. He would be a good fit. I doubt Washington matches. My only real fear is everything Isiah does usually sucks, so I'm wondering whats going to be wrong with Jeffries.

Its always a good laugh when people compare Isiah's moves to things the Yankees do. Thanks for that

Fish I think it's more of the atmosphere here than anything else. I think it drags people down. Once 8 guys are making excuses and collecting paychecks it makes otherwise solid citizens into the same thing. I think that's what we keep seeing.
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fishmike
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7/31/2006  2:41 PM
Posted by misterearl:

>>Isiah is not managing the knicks and its fans. He is doing damage control to his career. Big conflict of interest in my opinion.

Nalod - how is winning basketball games a conflict of interest for Isiah Thomas?

[Edited by - misterearl on 07-31-2006 11:59 AM]
when he wins some I will let you know. That has yet to happen.

Wait... your not talking about the Yankees again are you?

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Panos
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7/31/2006  3:22 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by misterearl:

>>Isiah is not managing the knicks and its fans. He is doing damage control to his career. Big conflict of interest in my opinion.

Nalod - how is winning basketball games a conflict of interest for Isiah Thomas?

[Edited by - misterearl on 07-31-2006 11:59 AM]
when he wins some I will let you know. That has yet to happen.

Wait... your not talking about the Yankees again are you?

The Yankees may be able to win more basketball games than the Knicks...
Bonn1997
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7/31/2006  3:54 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by crzymdups:

the thing the Knicks need to do is build a team that compliments one another. all we heard is that this team had too many guys who needed the ball to be effective, etc. Jefferies does not need the ball to be effective and fits into the running team this roster is molding into. he plays defense as well. will he mesh with the other guys? that's always impossible to tell until you see it on the court, but this team has plenty of offensive talent, it needs glue guys who make the team concept work. I'm not against this move at all.

but I do think Washington is matching this offer.
I agree. Jeffries doesnt need the ball to be productive. He would be a good fit. I doubt Washington matches. My only real fear is everything Isiah does usually sucks, so I'm wondering whats going to be wrong with Jeffries.

Its always a good laugh when people compare Isiah's moves to things the Yankees do. Thanks for that
What's the laugh? I bet Isiah could do as well (.550ish winning %, 0 championships) as Cashman's done over the past 5 years with no salary rules.

Solace
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7/31/2006  6:40 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by crzymdups:

the thing the Knicks need to do is build a team that compliments one another. all we heard is that this team had too many guys who needed the ball to be effective, etc. Jefferies does not need the ball to be effective and fits into the running team this roster is molding into. he plays defense as well. will he mesh with the other guys? that's always impossible to tell until you see it on the court, but this team has plenty of offensive talent, it needs glue guys who make the team concept work. I'm not against this move at all.

but I do think Washington is matching this offer.
I agree. Jeffries doesnt need the ball to be productive. He would be a good fit. I doubt Washington matches. My only real fear is everything Isiah does usually sucks, so I'm wondering whats going to be wrong with Jeffries.

Its always a good laugh when people compare Isiah's moves to things the Yankees do. Thanks for that
What's the laugh? I bet Isiah could do as well (.550ish winning %, 0 championships) as Cashman's done over the past 5 years with no salary rules.

That's great. However, he's shown an INABILITY to adjust the salary cap rules that exist in the sport he's GMing for. But it's nice to know he'd be a good baseball GM. Maybe he should go try that.

(P.S.: I like the Jeffries signing overall, for the record)
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
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