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Steve Kerr: Butler is one of "Free agency's best buys"
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holfresh
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7/28/2006  2:15 PM
Steve Kerr was once a Spur...He won a ring with them....We all have seen Butler.You really think he is a 14 mil player...Really..I know lots of people here hate Isiah...But I know we all love the Knicks...Do you really think we are worse as a result of not resigning Butler...How does guys like Kerr get into your heads after watching as much basketball as you do....Butler is a stiff.. A 6' 10" stiff...Please..we won 23 games with him on the squad....You think we win 40 resigning him....Butler and Bynum isn't worth the effort we put into them on this board...The Knicks have bigger fish to fry....



[Edited by - holfresh on 07-28-2006 2:17 PM]
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Bippity10
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7/28/2006  2:25 PM
Of course we aren't worse for losing him, but he is the type of player we need to start adding to the roster. Low paid role players that play hard.
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Bippity10
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7/28/2006  2:28 PM
Plus he's what 21?

I don't think it's a horrific move not signing him. In the situation we are in right now, it just wasn't in the cards. But getting in a "where do we go from here" mindset these are the type of players we need to bring here. We need to start trimming the fat(not a reference to Butler) and start letting guys like Jalen and Stevie and JJ go. Look to the future and build with young hungry players instead of talented high paid guys that can only get you so far, can't develop anymore, have never won and are untradeable does nto help you.

Butler on the other hand at his young age is obviously going to get better. In a perfect world we keep him, but at this time with all the wasteful spending by us over the years it was inevitable.
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holfresh
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7/28/2006  2:39 PM

Kerr said Butler is more agile and athletic than Narz Mohammed...I arrest my case...
Masterplan
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7/28/2006  2:58 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Plus he's what 21?

I don't think it's a horrific move not signing him. In the situation we are in right now, it just wasn't in the cards. But getting in a "where do we go from here" mindset these are the type of players we need to bring here. We need to start trimming the fat(not a reference to Butler) and start letting guys like Jalen and Stevie and JJ go. Look to the future and build with young hungry players instead of talented high paid guys that can only get you so far, can't develop anymore, have never won and are untradeable does nto help you.

Butler on the other hand at his young age is obviously going to get better. In a perfect world we keep him, but at this time with all the wasteful spending by us over the years it was inevitable.

i for one am also disappointed (not angry, just disappointed...) we let butler go. the point isn't that he's gonna be an all star, it's that we're choosing overpaid, lazy guys like mo and JJ over young, cheap, hungry players like Jackie. maybe it wasn't a choice between letting jackie walk and cutting those other guys. in that case, it's shortsightedness biting us in the ass again. until we show we're going to commit to youth and fiscal responsibility for more than a few press conferences at a time we're gonna keep making these decisions.

everyone says butler isn't worth $14 mil. why don't we do that arithmetic for every contract we have? butler's $14m looks like a real bargain next to f-ing $60 mil for JJ. come on.
holfresh
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7/28/2006  3:03 PM

Butler would have been nice to keep if he had been a defensive type to player...The Knicks absolutely need defensively minded players on their front line right now....JJ plays D and clogs the middle when he is on the court...I pray every night that he comes into camp in shape this year...If JJ gives us 15 to 18 mins playing his game a night..No one on this board will utter another syllable about Butler...Butler wa nice to have because of his youth and potential upside, but defensively we all know he limited at best...I thnk we can move on without missing Butler....
purple012870
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7/28/2006  3:05 PM
JJ was horrific, but in July '06, we did not CHOOSE him and his contract over Butler.
Masterplan
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7/28/2006  3:13 PM
Posted by purple012870:

JJ was horrific, but in July '06, we did not CHOOSE him and his contract over Butler.

no, but making that decision to pay $60 million for JJ was dumb in many ways, including shortsighted, costing us the chance to keep JB for $14m.

if letting JB go means we're looking to stop overpaying for mediocre players, i'm for it. time will tell, but if that is our philosophy going forward i just regret that it's a year too late and hope it lasts past when baron davis ends up on the trading block.
holfresh
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7/28/2006  3:26 PM
Posted by Masterplan:
Posted by purple012870:

JJ was horrific, but in July '06, we did not CHOOSE him and his contract over Butler.

no, but making that decision to pay $60 million for JJ was dumb in many ways, including shortsighted, costing us the chance to keep JB for $14m.

if letting JB go means we're looking to stop overpaying for mediocre players, i'm for it. time will tell, but if that is our philosophy going forward i just regret that it's a year too late and hope it lasts past when baron davis ends up on the trading block.


Dude, I know you are a Knick fan if you are posting on this board....If you remember correctly, the Knicks had no center when they acquired JJ...None..Nada...Curry wasnt on the radar yet...JJ had a monster playoff series....Isiah had no choice....The Knicks needed a center...People here like to forget that tidbit when they make their arguments...I hate the fact that JJ was lousy the past season being out of shape...But I can't kill Isiah because I wanted JJ as a stop gap because we had no one manning the center position...I though he would have been great defensively...But many here dumping on Isiah about that signing who were happy to fill that void at the time...I can't because I do remember the situation and supported it at the time...But many here don't have the balls to say they wanted to fill the hole in the middle with JJ at the time...The only issue with JJ is is motivation and whether or not he shows up in shape...He can play the position...
nyk4ever
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7/28/2006  3:32 PM
Jerome James was by far one of the worst FA signings in not only Knicks history but the history of the NBA. 95% of this board wanted nothing to do with the guy(one of the few player moves most people were together on.) There is absolutely no reason that Isiah had to sign Jerome for the length and the dollar amount that he did. I don't care if there wasn't a center left on the face of the earth, there was no reason Jerome HAD to get the dollar amount and length that he got, ESPECIALLY with his spotty past when it comes to getting contracts and then performing after you get that contract.

NOW.. the signing is even worse because instead of having a backup center that actually performs on the court for about peanuts in the NBA, the Knicks are stuck with a fat, unmotivated, lazy basketball player with a long contract. Great.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 07-28-2006 3:37 PM]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
holfresh
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7/28/2006  3:43 PM
Everyone would be a great GM if they can make trades and signings in the past...



[Edited by - holfresh on 07-28-2006 3:44 PM]
nyk4ever
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7/28/2006  3:47 PM
Most GM's have enough forsight to not offer Jerome James 5yr/36 million and then don't have to worry about looking into the past. Let's see a overweight, selfish and noted lazy player comes onto the FA market, most GM's were smart enough to stay away.. not our beloved Isiah though. And to make it worse, Isiah Thomas overpaid for a center that no one else was after 2 times in one offseason. Now that's sad.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
holfresh
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7/28/2006  3:56 PM

Oh please, I wasnt posting on this board at that time but I do remember talk radio said it was a void that needed to be filled...Now we are all can play game of hindsight GM or we can be men and own up to what we felt was needed at the time...I see most here won't do the latter..
nyk4ever
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7/28/2006  4:00 PM
Posted by holfresh:


Oh please, I wasnt posting on this board at that time but I do remember talk radio said it was a void that needed to be filled..


This isn't talk radio buddy. It's funny that you can comment on what this board thought even though you weren't here. Sorry to burst your bubble but 90% or more on this board didn't want him. So no one has to own up to not wanting him.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Bonn1997
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7/28/2006  4:02 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Masterplan:
Posted by purple012870:

JJ was horrific, but in July '06, we did not CHOOSE him and his contract over Butler.

no, but making that decision to pay $60 million for JJ was dumb in many ways, including shortsighted, costing us the chance to keep JB for $14m.

if letting JB go means we're looking to stop overpaying for mediocre players, i'm for it. time will tell, but if that is our philosophy going forward i just regret that it's a year too late and hope it lasts past when baron davis ends up on the trading block.


Dude, I know you are a Knick fan if you are posting on this board....If you remember correctly, the Knicks had no center when they acquired JJ...None..Nada

They had some guy named Jackie Butler on the roster already! I could have sworn I've heard that name before!
holfresh
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7/28/2006  4:05 PM

I can't knock the signing because I know Isiah didn't sign him because he wanted JJ the player...He needed a body in the middle..Any body...
KThomas was our center, KT!...If JJ shows up in shape this year...There will be 10 teams asking for his services...The guy is at the end of the bench...What does it matter, who cares, it's not your money, doenst have any effect on the salary cap...WE WILL ALWAYS BE OVER THE SALARY CAP..It's the 11th commandment...JJ signing doesn't matter...Just like losing Butler doesn't matter...What matters is player one thru nine for the Knicks in 2007...
holfresh
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7/28/2006  4:07 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Masterplan:
Posted by purple012870:

JJ was horrific, but in July '06, we did not CHOOSE him and his contract over Butler.

no, but making that decision to pay $60 million for JJ was dumb in many ways, including shortsighted, costing us the chance to keep JB for $14m.

if letting JB go means we're looking to stop overpaying for mediocre players, i'm for it. time will tell, but if that is our philosophy going forward i just regret that it's a year too late and hope it lasts past when baron davis ends up on the trading block.


Dude, I know you are a Knick fan if you are posting on this board....If you remember correctly, the Knicks had no center when they acquired JJ...None..Nada

They had some guy named Jackie Butler on the roster already! I could have sworn I've heard that name before!


Like I said, they had no center on the roster...
nyk4ever
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7/28/2006  4:22 PM
Isiah didn't want JJ the player, he wanted JJ the body? So he paid 7million plus becuase JJ was tall? Whats the point of signing the guy if there is a huge doubt in almost every persons mind around the NBA that Jerome can't keep his weight and also doesn't give effort on the court? That makes absolutely no sense.

The Knicks might be over the salary cap but it doesn't give justice to the signing just becuase they were already over, now they are 7million more per year over. The art of negotiation has never been anywhere near the strength of Isiah, and negotiating is kinda important when your running a sports team.

By the way Kurt Thomas was and still is 10000X the center that Jerome James is and thats saying something.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 07-28-2006 4:23 PM]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
holfresh
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7/28/2006  4:28 PM

Yeah, KT could have done what JJ did during the playoffs in Seattle...right...
newyorknewyork
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7/28/2006  4:33 PM
Yes we needed a void at center. But you don't spend 5yrs 36mil on him. Why couldn't we just sign Diop or Steven Hunter for 2yrs 2-3mil and go stop gap that way. Yes James has way more potential then either of them. But bottom line is Isiah tried to hit a home run with James. Ignored all the red flaqs and thought that he could turn James into some kind of allstar calibre center in NY becuase he showed the flashes in Seattle that last season. Sure James could be a huge defensive monster for us if he really wanted it. Look what he did for Seattle cloging the lanes forcing opponents to settle for jumpers which allowed Allen & Lewis to be comfortable playing up on there man. But the odds of him doing it wasn't good so why risk 36mil on that chance. When we could have got Diop cheap and waited for a better option to come along.

It probably had to do with 33win season the yr before. Which Dolan didn't like. So Isiah felt he didn't have the time to settle for a guy like Diop until a better option came along. And felt he had to hit a home run with James.
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Steve Kerr: Butler is one of "Free agency's best buys"
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