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A Motivated Marbury
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Bonn1997
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7/27/2006  10:39 PM
Posted by nixluva:

OHHH GEEZ! I just LOVE the Steph haters out there, talkin like a bunch of school girls. You really don't have a FREAKIN CLUE as to what you're talking about. No matter what you all think its really gonna be about the other players on the floor. Steph will hold down his position and he'll feed players the ball but will they convert those opportunities? Let me ask you what kind of teams has he had here in NY? Any of them considered 2nd or 3rd round locks at the start of the year? HELL NO! Every team has been basically 1st rd fodder. So we want to make this about Steph when MOST of the teams he's been on have STUNK!!!! Not him, but the teams around him haven't been very good. Aside from a VERY Young KG, VERY young Amare and VERY young KMart, he hasn't really had much help in his career. He played with these guys as Sophmore's and Rookies. Interesting that he got to the playoffs with both KG/Gugliotta and Amare/Marion as his co stars. Even with those guys those teams weren't considered bigtime teams. We haven't had ANYONE CLOSE to those players, except for H2O and he was hurt.

NOW we finally are starting to put some really good talent around him and with a coach that actually WANTS the team to succeed this will be a MUCH better year for Steph and the Knicks. I can't WAIT for the season to start, so I can stomp all over you haters with my Starbury sneakers on ...AH HA, HA, HA, HAAAAAAAH!
Steph does have a lot of baggage and he's gets lazy at times, but I'd agree with your point about people really overlooking how awful his teams have been. The best veteran Steph has ever played a full season with is probably Kurt Thomas
AUTOADVERT
McK1
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7/27/2006  10:46 PM
Posted by nixluva:

OHHH GEEZ! I just LOVE the Steph haters out there, talkin like a bunch of school girls. You really don't have a FREAKIN CLUE as to what you're talking about. No matter what you all think its really gonna be about the other players on the floor. Steph will hold down his position and he'll feed players the ball but will they convert those opportunities? Let me ask you what kind of teams has he had here in NY? Any of them considered 2nd or 3rd round locks at the start of the year? HELL NO! Every team has been basically 1st rd fodder. So we want to make this about Steph when MOST of the teams he's been on have STUNK!!!! Not him, but the teams around him haven't been very good. Aside from a VERY Young KG, VERY young Amare and VERY young KMart, he hasn't really had much help in his career. He played with these guys as Sophmore's and Rookies. Interesting that he got to the playoffs with both KG/Gugliotta and Amare/Marion as his co stars. Even with those guys those teams weren't considered bigtime teams. We haven't had ANYONE CLOSE to those players, except for H2O and he was hurt.

NOW we finally are starting to put some really good talent around him and with a coach that actually WANTS the team to succeed this will be a MUCH better year for Steph and the Knicks. I can't WAIT for the season to start, so I can stomp all over you haters with my Starbury sneakers on ...AH HA, HA, HA, HAAAAAAAH!

04-05 team should've made the play-off with or without Houston. that 2-13 January included an at home loss to the 3 win Dan Dickau led Hornets. Steph clearly FAILED his team as "Captain and Floor Leader"

he has a traceable history of FAILING his team as Capt and Floor Leader.

this is not about Larry Brown
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Nalod
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7/27/2006  10:56 PM
Posted by nixluva:

OHHH GEEZ! I just LOVE the Steph haters out there, talkin like a bunch of school girls. You really don't have a FREAKIN CLUE as to what you're talking about. No matter what you all think its really gonna be about the other players on the floor. Steph will hold down his position and he'll feed players the ball but will they convert those opportunities? Let me ask you what kind of teams has he had here in NY? Any of them considered 2nd or 3rd round locks at the start of the year? HELL NO! Every team has been basically 1st rd fodder. So we want to make this about Steph when MOST of the teams he's been on have STUNK!!!! Not him, but the teams around him haven't been very good. Aside from a VERY Young KG, VERY young Amare and VERY young KMart, he hasn't really had much help in his career. He played with these guys as Sophmore's and Rookies. Interesting that he got to the playoffs with both KG/Gugliotta and Amare/Marion as his co stars. Even with those guys those teams weren't considered bigtime teams. We haven't had ANYONE CLOSE to those players, except for H2O and he was hurt.

NOW we finally are starting to put some really good talent around him and with a coach that actually WANTS the team to succeed this will be a MUCH better year for Steph and the Knicks. I can't WAIT for the season to start, so I can stomp all over you haters with my Starbury sneakers on ...AH HA, HA, HA, HAAAAAAAH!


He all alone in NY too? YOu know, no one blames him for the losses of denies he has a world of talent. He just seems to be a lone wolf who divides then brings the best out of his teammates.

and you point is the best he can do is just make the playoffs with two stars with him?

The man has a big contract and thats why he gets the star treatment from the knicks.

Im a fan, what reason has he given me to like him?

Ewing was a warrior, Barkley had big heart and a big mouth, Stockton was all business, Reggie was clutch and hustle and Karl Malone had charactor. Starbury has stated he is juist like them becasue they have not won anything either. Those guys stayed in their cities most of their careers (except Barkley).

What he does not get is those guys won the respect of their teammates, coaches and fans. Marbury has not done any of that. Not even close.

Hate, thats not hate.
TheGame
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7/28/2006  2:16 AM
I like Marbury but agree that he has not done a great job of being a leader on this team and really earning the players' respect. He is just too much of a loner. I think Isiah realizes this to some extent, which is why he said that he was the leader of the team and that the players needed to follow his lead. In Marbury's defense, it was clear to me that he was the best player we had at the point position and when he played well and focused on both ends of the floor, the team performed well.
Trust the Process
Killa4luv
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7/28/2006  2:56 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:

Marbury averages 8 assists because the ball is always in his hands.

If this is true, how do you account for the fact that other ball dominating pg's don't 8 assists per game then?
fishmike
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7/28/2006  7:48 AM
Marbury will and always has created tons of open looks for shooters off his own offense. He gets the basket all the time and when defenses collapse he's great at kicking the ball to an open shooter. Always has been. He's never been good at running an offense, and creating for 5 guys as someone like Nash does. Hell, Brevin Knight is better at that than Marbury. Everyone thats ever watched him knows this. This is why people killed him for leaving Sota. He had another star to constantly feed the ball to. Then he went to the Nets and learned Keith Van Horn wasnt the same.

He's not a good fit for this current team. He was a decent fit for the KT/Doleac/KVH/Houston squad as you surround him with a bunch of shooters.

Now he's just part of a cast of guys that all pound the ball.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bippity10
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7/28/2006  8:56 AM
Posted by nixluva:

OHHH GEEZ! I just LOVE the Steph haters out there, talkin like a bunch of school girls. You really don't have a FREAKIN CLUE as to what you're talking about. No matter what you all think its really gonna be about the other players on the floor. Steph will hold down his position and he'll feed players the ball but will they convert those opportunities? Let me ask you what kind of teams has he had here in NY? Any of them considered 2nd or 3rd round locks at the start of the year? HELL NO! Every team has been basically 1st rd fodder. So we want to make this about Steph when MOST of the teams he's been on have STUNK!!!! Not him, but the teams around him haven't been very good. Aside from a VERY Young KG, VERY young Amare and VERY young KMart, he hasn't really had much help in his career. He played with these guys as Sophmore's and Rookies. Interesting that he got to the playoffs with both KG/Gugliotta and Amare/Marion as his co stars. Even with those guys those teams weren't considered bigtime teams. We haven't had ANYONE CLOSE to those players, except for H2O and he was hurt.

NOW we finally are starting to put some really good talent around him and with a coach that actually WANTS the team to succeed this will be a MUCH better year for Steph and the Knicks. I can't WAIT for the season to start, so I can stomp all over you haters with my Starbury sneakers on ...AH HA, HA, HA, HAAAAAAAH!


I guess this goes along with my original point. He's now playing with a past all-star and some good young players. So leading up to this year he had a million excuses. This year the excuses are over for everyone.

But again the "Marbury lovers"(can someone explain where this stuff comes from. The love and hate talk? Is it just a younger crowd that insists on this? You don't hear this on my Seahawks chat page) it's not about wins right now. It's about what does he bring to the team. I defended him a million times last year(just ask blueseats). Last year's record was not his fault. Outside of maybe 3 guys you can't honestly say that this team gave an honest effort last year. Your team quit. Stephon is not the reason we quit. The fact that Stephon also quit is not the reason for our failures. But as a leader of the team, when things go bad, you can not be one of the one's that quit. This is what Steph has to learn but hasn't. This is what the die hard "Marb lovers" have to learn as well. If he changes this pattern he will not need you to defend him. But in the meantime you will continue to watch him have a negative impact on his teams, never lift them to achieve more than they are capable of and always have to defend him.

Real stars do not turn bad teams into good/great ones. Only guys like Jordan do that. That is not what we are asking Stephon to do. Stars don't turn mediocre teams into great ones over night(some actually do). But rarely do you add a "star" to a team and then watch it's record actually get worse. For some reason that happens with Steph. Instead of looking at the root causes, fixing them and then seeing success. Steph and his "lovers" immediately defend all his actions and then blame everyone else. If this attitude does not change, sorry, don't hate the guy, dying to see him help my team, but if not, he has to go.
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TMS
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7/28/2006  9:44 AM
I already know he has to go... he's never going to be a different player... the whole "motivated to play better" act is old... he's had 4 different head coaches & 4 different reasons to be inspired to play well in the time he's been in NY... now he'll be on his 5th & last... if it doesn't work out now, neither he nor his new head coach will be here much longer... the only worry i have is that Dolan will be fooled by another one of Steph's acts, but the good thing is that there's no chance he'll sign him to a max extension just yet, if u can even count that as a consolation... i'm sure some of you guys will be fooled by his act this season too... i'll be counting how many days it takes before he reverts back to his old Starbury self... then i'm sure we'll be having the same exact arguments as we're having now... can't wait.

the more things change, the more they stay the same.
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Nalod
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7/28/2006  11:04 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by gunsnewing:

Marbury averages 8 assists because the ball is always in his hands.

If this is true, how do you account for the fact that other ball dominating pg's don't 8 assists per game then?

Cuz they win more?
Allanfan20
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7/28/2006  11:49 AM
There are 2 problems with a "Motivated Marbury."

First off, why does he need to be motivated in the first place? He's an all world talent and one of the richest guys in sports and we all know that's probably quintuple anything we anything ever had, combined. He should have self motivation 100% of the time, especially if he says he's got love of the game and NY. If you love NY, then you love defense. Start playing.

Secondly, when this "Motivated Marbury" comes about, how long does it last, the most? 2 or 3 weeks say? This is the Marbury that should be around 24/7, when he's playing defense all the team and always lifting up his teammates, even through the toughest of times. Problem was, he only lifted them up during that 6 game winning streak. Where was he when they desperately needed that during their 9 game losing streaks.

Yes, his face is always stone cold, but the way I see it, Stephon is just an unstable bball headcase and Isiah is about to figure it out, finally. This is why Stephon and Isiah being in bed together is so dangerous to the team. B/c now Stephon is gonna feel he's allowed to talk back to even Isiah. Not Zeke is gonna learn how Herb, Lenny and Brown felt. I'm thinking same goes for the egos of Francis and Rose. Call me crazy, but I have a feeling they ALL could be gone by February.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Bippity10
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7/28/2006  12:20 PM
this just goes along with the excuse making for all the guys. They stunk last year, but that's okay because it was our fault for not creating the perfect atmosphere for them so that they can be "motivated"

NYer's have really begun to settle. I agree with you Allanfan. I don't want all this talk about now that LB is gone he is going to be motivated. Now that Isiah is here he is going to be motivated. Okay fine, what happens if Isiah is fired and someone Steph doesn't like is brought in again. Is it okay for him to quit again? If other players on the team don't like Isiah, is it okay for them to quit on Isiah like they did last year? Where does this logic come from?

I want players to be motivated by one thing........WINNING!!!!!!!!!

If Marbs comes in here, busts his butt everyday, plays D like he's capable, listens to everything Isiah says, picks up his teammates when they fail to match his talent level, takes the blame when things aren't going well then he will be applauded. Continue on the same course and he will retire and be forgotten a day later.

Very few people actually hate guy. We see the generosity he shows to charity and we root for him. But when you make comments(after a decade of losing) like "I don't have to prove anything to anybody" it probably means he isn't going to change and we will just envision more of the same. Marbs 20 points 8 assists, our Knicks being mediocre, Marbs complaining and the inevitable collapse soon after.
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nyk4ever
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7/28/2006  12:38 PM
Everyone knows Marbury is a talented player, I don't think anyone in the right mind would deny that as well as charitable, but I don't root for him because he's charitable, I root for him to win my Knicks basketball games.

The problem that I have with the guy is that he not only gets paid to put up stats, he gets paid as much as he does to also be the leader on this team yet, he never leads, he's usually at the head of the pack revolting against the coach. My other problem with Steph is that he doesn't tune down his game when he has other weapons to spread the ball around to. It seems that it always has to come down to Steph getting his 20 and 8 and that's fine if it leads to winning but it never has. If Steph put up 17 and 6 and got more of his teamates involved with more passing and less shooting and the team won 45-50 games and leads to a great offense, than that 17 and 6 is much more important than a 20 and 8. I don't think Steph can understand that.

I'll tell you now that I'd be the first person in line to see Marbury a changed man this year and leading this team on both ends of the floor like he can. I'll gladly take that and he can shut me up. I've just seen his deal and what he's done his whole career and I don't think he will ever change.
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Bippity10
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7/28/2006  12:45 PM
Scenario:Let's say I get into the paint with my immense talent. Everytime drive the other team collapses on me. I kick it out to Allanfan 100 times over the course of a week and he makes 10 of them.

What do you think will get a better response from Allanfan and our teammates

Quote 1: "I dont' know what to do. I keep making great plays because I'm the league's best point guard. I'm making pinpoint passes, hitting Allanfan in the chest and he just can't make the shots. How do you expect me to be great if he's not good enough to make shots. I'm all alone here"

Quote 2: "We'll work on it in practice until that shot becomes Allanfan's bread and butter. He's not making the shots right now but I have full confidence that Allanfan will work hard to improve that shot. In the meantime I'm going to keep kicking it out to him because he is one of the keys to our team"

Both comments are true. Comment one probably is closer to my true feelings. But as a leader and as someone Allanfan20 looks up to, quote two helps him(especially if I actually do work with him) and quote one does nothing but hurt his confidence more.

Now marbs has never used either of these quotes. But you understand the point.
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Bippity10
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7/28/2006  12:48 PM
No matter how Marbs feels about his coach or teammates he can not use that as a scapegoat for his failures. If he is the best player teammates look up to him. He needs to understand that as a leader your words and actions are always watched. Poor Allanfan20 would have no chance with StarBippity. He'd be better off with just plain Bippity.
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gunsnewing
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7/28/2006  12:49 PM
read Fishmike's post he summed up Marbury's strengths & flaws to a tee
Bippity10
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7/28/2006  1:01 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

read Fishmike's post he summed up Marbury's strengths & flaws to a tee

I disagree. I think Fishmike's post was severely lacking. I think my post did a better job of summing up his strength's and flaws. Plus it was more creative and longer. That is undeniable.
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gunsnewing
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7/28/2006  1:09 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by gunsnewing:

read Fishmike's post he summed up Marbury's strengths & flaws to a tee

I disagree. I think Fishmike's post was severely lacking. I think my post did a better job of summing up his strength's and flaws. Plus it was more creative and longer. That is undeniable.


your post is right on too Bip but as far as Marbury's strengths & flaws on the court Fish hit the nail on the head. You 100% right its inexcusable to quit on your coach. Only Marbury gets away with it on this team

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 07-28-2006 1:12 PM]
Bippity10
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7/28/2006  1:11 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by gunsnewing:

read Fishmike's post he summed up Marbury's strengths & flaws to a tee

I disagree. I think Fishmike's post was severely lacking. I think my post did a better job of summing up his strength's and flaws. Plus it was more creative and longer. That is undeniable.


you post is right on too Bip but as far as Marbury's strengths & flaws on the court Fish hit the nail on the head. You 100% right its inexcusable to quit on your coach. Only Marbury gets away with it on this team

I'll take that as an admission that my post is clearly better than Fish's mediocre but accurate post.
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gunsnewing
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7/28/2006  1:20 PM
I see people calling Marbury a ball-hog and then there are people saying he's a great PG because he averages 8asts whereas Fish's post explains why he is not a great PG because his ability to run plays is limited but at the same time he isn't a ball-hog. Then there is this is whole other negative aspect to Marbury, his personality as a selfish whinning loser
Bippity10
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7/28/2006  1:22 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

I see people calling Marbury a ball-hog and then there are people saying he's a great PG because he averages 8asts whereas Fish's post explains why he is not a great PG because his ability to run plays is limited but at the same time he isn't a ball-hog. Then there is this is whole other negative aspect to Marbury, his personality as a selfish whinning loser

Admit it, you hate Fishmike
I just hope that people will like me
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