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I can't see Stevie Francis.....
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franco12
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7/22/2006  11:12 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by unstopaball12:

not really i see a lot of tems going small

Look at the teams that went deep into the playoffs, they weren't small.


Small for a lot of those play off teams (including the suns) was having a bunch of 6'5" guys out there- and all with major athleticism.

Francis and Marbury are too short and are not athletic to make up for their shortness.

Granted, they might cause some problems for the opposing team.

But remember when KT was our center and we were out rebounded nightly? We got physically pushed around and I don't see any evidence that won't happen to our back court and a regular basis.

Hey- I hope it works out.

But has anyone read anything about Francis gearing up for the season?

I mean, is he out working on catch and shooting, screens, his outside shot?

Somehow, I doubt it.
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nixluva
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7/23/2006  12:44 AM
Posted by franco12:

Small for a lot of those play off teams (including the suns) was having a bunch of 6'5" guys out there- and all with major athleticism.

Francis and Marbury are too short and are not athletic to make up for their shortness.

Granted, they might cause some problems for the opposing team.

But remember when KT was our center and we were out rebounded nightly? We got physically pushed around and I don't see any evidence that won't happen to our back court and a regular basis.

Hey- I hope it works out.

But has anyone read anything about Francis gearing up for the season?

I mean, is he out working on catch and shooting, screens, his outside shot?

Somehow, I doubt it.

MAN WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKIN ABOUT? Steph and Francis aren't athletic enough!?! Have you ever watched those guys play? They're still two of the most athletic and hard to stop guards in the league. Don't let last year fool you. Once they get a chance to flow in Isiah's offense, you'll get a reminder of just how athletic they are. Its not like anyone can stop Steph anyway. The only one who successfully defended him was LARRY. Once he said screw you larry we saw just what he was really capable of and we won games. The only thing that stopped that was an injury.

tomverve
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7/23/2006  1:03 AM
Well, for all the talk about the limitations on height and D, it's not a lock the offensive chemistry between the two will click either. They're both going to look for the drive/drive-and-kick as the primary option on offense. Marbury's jumper is good but not great, whereas Francis's J just sucks. That creates a potential problem, the likes of which we saw glimpses of when they shared the court last season: Marbury drives and kicks to Francis, who then passes up the J and drives and kicks to Marbury, who drives and kicks again...

It might work out better if one of them was the better playmaker and the other the better shooter, but Marbury is clearly better on both counts than Francis. So we're going to lose something significant regardless of whether Francis spends most of his time at PG or SG.

Of course, it's not as if our offense was particularly well organized last season anyway-- we inexcusably ran almost no pick and pops with Marbury and Frye for example-- so maybe the potential chemistry between Marbs and Francis is better than what we saw last year.
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franco12
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7/23/2006  6:57 AM
Posted by tomverve:

Well, for all the talk about the limitations on height and D, it's not a lock the offensive chemistry between the two will click either. They're both going to look for the drive/drive-and-kick as the primary option on offense. Marbury's jumper is good but not great, whereas Francis's J just sucks. That creates a potential problem, the likes of which we saw glimpses of when they shared the court last season: Marbury drives and kicks to Francis, who then passes up the J and drives and kicks to Marbury, who drives and kicks again...

It might work out better if one of them was the better playmaker and the other the better shooter, but Marbury is clearly better on both counts than Francis. So we're going to lose something significant regardless of whether Francis spends most of his time at PG or SG.

Of course, it's not as if our offense was particularly well organized last season anyway-- we inexcusably ran almost no pick and pops with Marbury and Frye for example-- so maybe the potential chemistry between Marbs and Francis is better than what we saw last year.


Thank you! Neither Francis nor Marbury are strong enough outside shooters to play at the SG spot. Our best outside shooter who plays in the backcourt is Nate, and I doubt you will see any floor time for the threesome of Nate, Francis and Marbury.
franco12
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7/23/2006  7:00 AM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by franco12:

Small for a lot of those play off teams (including the suns) was having a bunch of 6'5" guys out there- and all with major athleticism.

Francis and Marbury are too short and are not athletic to make up for their shortness.

Granted, they might cause some problems for the opposing team.

But remember when KT was our center and we were out rebounded nightly? We got physically pushed around and I don't see any evidence that won't happen to our back court and a regular basis.

Hey- I hope it works out.

But has anyone read anything about Francis gearing up for the season?

I mean, is he out working on catch and shooting, screens, his outside shot?

Somehow, I doubt it.

MAN WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKIN ABOUT? Steph and Francis aren't athletic enough!?! Have you ever watched those guys play? They're still two of the most athletic and hard to stop guards in the league. Don't let last year fool you. Once they get a chance to flow in Isiah's offense, you'll get a reminder of just how athletic they are. Its not like anyone can stop Steph anyway. The only one who successfully defended him was LARRY. Once he said screw you larry we saw just what he was really capable of and we won games. The only thing that stopped that was an injury.


I'm talking about athletic enough to make up for their height deficiency against opposing 2 guards. Marbury and Francis might both be strong enough to prevent other teams SG from posting them constantly- still, there are guys like Amare and I bet Balkman is one who give up 6 inches to an opposing player but make up for it in other ways on the defensive end.

Sorry, I am not basing my judgement on their numbers & stats from last year, but on their play- and I saw no glimpse- and I hoped to find just a glimmer- of anything in their play that would lead me to believe they could co-exist.
rvhoss
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7/23/2006  8:27 AM
3 names, qrich, jrose and rbalkman.

All the players you named are then ONLY threats on their respective teams (maybe one or two others).

The SF position will be used to shut down the wings.

Did any of you watch the DEFENSE in summer league?

It actually existed and it depends on switching by the guards and locking down by the 3.

Who cares if francis and marbury are short, we're not playing man to man. (it's not a zone either)

But hey, you need something to criticize, so what the heck, make something up.
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McK1
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7/23/2006  9:04 AM
Posted by rvhoss:




It actually existed and it depends on switching by the guards and locking down by the 3.

Who cares if francis and marbury are short, we're not playing man to man. (it's not a zone either)



how will that stop a Pierce or a Carter from posting up?



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rvhoss
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7/23/2006  10:01 AM
i see you didn't cut and paste the part about Qrich, Jrose and Balkman stopping Paul Pierce from posting up.

So, I'll say it.

JRose, QRich and RBalkman can all stop paul pierce from posting up as well as any other defender in the league (the top 5 defenders not withstanding).

Oh, I forget, we're bashing marbs and francis, why would the SF (our best defender on the court) stop their best defender...AND paul pierce is actually an SF to boot.

you're making less and less sense.
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rvhoss
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7/23/2006  10:26 AM
http://www.nba.com/games/20060110/NYKCLE/recap.html

James scored 36 points but had just four in the final period while being blanketed by Quentin Richardson. The third-year superstar also contributed seven rebounds and seven assists for the Cavaliers, who had won seven of the previous eight meetings in the series.

"(James) had 32 after three (quarters) and I thought Quentin had guarded him pretty well," Brown said. "In the first half, (Richardson) was 1-for-8 (shooting) and got eight rebounds; second half he was 0-for-1 and I think he got one rebound, (but) I thought he was a big, big factor in us winning the game."

"I'm a proud defensive player," said Richardson, who scored just five points. "I'm not going to let anybody go crazy on me. I've got more pride than that, just having someone go off for a million points."

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kevlofton
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7/23/2006  10:38 AM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by rvhoss:




It actually existed and it depends on switching by the guards and locking down by the 3.

Who cares if francis and marbury are short, we're not playing man to man. (it's not a zone either)



how will that stop a Pierce or a Carter from posting up?

I'm willing to bet that they will be in Foul Trouble... Both of those guys can be broken down on Defense. I think it will be simular to Houston and Sprewell. No one could match up. Lets give this a chance, no one will be able to run with us. Especially if we pick up Martin.

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McK1
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7/23/2006  11:05 AM
Posted by rvhoss:

i see you didn't cut and paste the part about Qrich, Jrose and Balkman stopping Paul Pierce from posting up.

So, I'll say it.

JRose, QRich and RBalkman can all stop paul pierce from posting up as well as any other defender in the league (the top 5 defenders not withstanding).

Oh, I forget, we're bashing marbs and francis, why would the SF (our best defender on the court) stop their best defender...AND paul pierce is actually an SF to boot.

a) Pierce has can does and will play both the 2 and 3

b) we're playing 10+. how much floor time will Q see in that? Balkman is a rookie who gives up 30 lbs and 5000lbs of experience to a PP and JRose stopping somebody

you're making less and less sense.
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McK1
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7/23/2006  11:09 AM
Posted by kevlofton:


I'm willing to bet that they will be in Foul Trouble... .

if the they is NY then thats a safe bet.

in 4 games vs NY Pierce went to the line 57 times (~15 freethrow attempts per)
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
nyk4ever
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7/23/2006  11:56 AM
I can't believe this even a conversation. Marbury and Francis are noted bad defensive basketball players, you want to start them in the same backcourt now? That is like asking for active euthanasia. Marbury and Francis are going to be giving anywhere from 3-4 inches on a nightly basis when either is playing the 2guard. Teams with good defensive players in the frountcourt who both rebound and play help defense can allow that luxury because when Marbury/Francis let their guys blow past them and shoot over them, the frontline is there to help out. We're going to ask Eddy Curry, Frye, Jerome James, David Lee to be relied on for help defense and high rebounding totals?(David Lee, I'll give you) These guys can't even guard their own men. This backcourt is a recipe for absolute disaster.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 07-23-2006 11:57 AM]
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rvhoss
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7/23/2006  1:04 PM
are you saying anything at all...you are going to sit there, say you are a knick fan and then make as many excuses as possible to say that we can't stop Paul Pierce (of all people).

Jeez.

You say marbury and francis can't cover him.

I say Qrich will.

You say, qrich won't see any time on the floor. (just a guess on your part because the season hasn't even started)

then you say jrose sucks and that balkman is small.

So, you are absolutely right Mck1...Paul Pierce is uncoverable by any player on the knicks.

We shouldn't even field a team this year.

McK1 has decried it.

mcK1, is there any player on the knicks that is good?
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raven
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7/23/2006  1:13 PM
Weird as some people always forget that for one pierce that we can't guard, our opponents will have a francis or marbury they can't guard either...
McK1
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7/23/2006  1:31 PM
I like Steve Francis.


would like to see this team minus Steph


[Edited by - McK1 on 07-23-2006 1:35 PM]
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fishmike
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7/23/2006  2:20 PM
Steve Francis will be fine so long as he is given 38 minutes regardless of how well he plays, and so long as his shot selection isnt questioned.
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Solace
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7/23/2006  2:28 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Steve Francis will be fine so long as he is given 38 minutes regardless of how well he plays, and so long as his shot selection isnt questioned.

Sounds pretty fair. Are we playing with 2 balls this year or 3?
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I can't see Stevie Francis.....
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