Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by nyk4ever:

Very interesting Tom. I still think that the rookies were played enough. You shouldn't be handed anything and you have to work for your minutes, especially under a coach like Brown.

It's quite clear the rookies did (work for their minutes) and the vets playing ahead of them did not.

You shouldn't be handed anything

You're right that if you're a VET you're not handed *anything* under Brown; you're handed *everything*!

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by nyk4ever:

Very interesting Tom. I still think that the rookies were played enough. You shouldn't be handed anything and you have to work for your minutes, especially under a coach like Brown.

It's quite clear the rookies did (work for their minutes) and the vets playing ahead of them did not.

You shouldn't be handed anything

You're right that if you're a VET you're not handed *anything* under Brown; you're handed *everything*!

Geez Bonn yet again you've thrown a monkey-wrench into my thinking!

Not really.

What exactly did Nate, Frye and Lee do to earn more minutes then they got? They all displayed poor defense and when your a rookie and you don't play defense there isn't much of a chance your going to play when you play for coaches like Brown, Jackson, Sloan, Bobby Knight, Coach K.. etc etc.

A coach like I just mentioned is ALWAYS going to play a veteran over a rookie who doesn't help the team defensively becuase the veterans have paid their dues in this league. Like it or not thats how it works.

Proceed with the snittiness.

Posted by franco12:


Nate and Lee were energy and if you have ever played a team sport, when one of your team mates is putting forth effort, you usually do likewise.

And as far as defense goes- don't even bring that arguement up because then Nate should have started at PG and Marbury probably wouldn't have gotten any time.

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by franco12:


Nate and Lee were energy and if you have ever played a team sport, when one of your team mates is putting forth effort, you usually do likewise.

Of course but when did any player on the Knicks try harder because NAte and Lee were trying hard? I saw Marbury go out and play a game and not shoot the ball. Where was Eddy Curry playing harder because of Lee and Nate, where was Francis trying harder becuase of Lee and Nate. This argument doesn't help your case.

Rookies have trouble earning time, everyone knows they'll play hard but whether or not it's effective is another thing. Nate was absolutely horrid defensively last year, why should he stay out on the court, just becuase he can gets the fans excited?

And as far as defense goes- don't even bring that arguement up because then Nate should have started at PG and Marbury probably wouldn't have gotten any time.

I don't understand. If read this site, then you would know that I don't even want Marbury on the team becuase he doesnt try on defense. Nate didn't deserve to be starting at PG either becuase his defense was deplorable man on man, Frye's wasn't much better and neither was Lee's.

Vets always get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to playing time and rookies will play if they provide help on both ends of the court but like in our case, the rookies didn't provide much defensively so they didn't play that much.

I think Lee was the best defender of the rookies and at the PF position becasue of his rebounding the ball which is why his playing time went up as the season went on.

I see you are wearing your Brown glasses again. The fact of the matter is this Brown wanted effort the rooks gave him effort and are almost never rewarded. You are going to sit here and tell me that Frye who can drop 20-25pts and actually tries on defence(do remember rookies never get the benefit of calls from refs) should sit in favor of AD, Malik Rose and Mo The Black Hole Taylor. Frye won the starting job after the 10-15 game of the season and was yoyo around and still managed to produce. Lee was guarding three and was the best rebounder on the team yet still he subjected to prolonged stints on the bench. Nate needed to be reigned a bit but he was the least of our problems at guard spot. He also was raked over the coals by Brown, why because I guess he was taking away the shine from Brown. The unit of Frye, Lee, Nate, Crawford and Butler was the best unit that Brown had that would give him what he craves yet he chose not to use them. Something stunk on ice last year is all I'm going to say the rookies deserved more time.

Posted by franco12:

And as far as defense goes- don't even bring that arguement up because then Nate should have started at PG and Marbury probably wouldn't have gotten any time.

Posted by buddapaw:

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by franco12:


Nate and Lee were energy and if you have ever played a team sport, when one of your team mates is putting forth effort, you usually do likewise.

Of course but when did any player on the Knicks try harder because NAte and Lee were trying hard? I saw Marbury go out and play a game and not shoot the ball. Where was Eddy Curry playing harder because of Lee and Nate, where was Francis trying harder becuase of Lee and Nate. This argument doesn't help your case.

Rookies have trouble earning time, everyone knows they'll play hard but whether or not it's effective is another thing. Nate was absolutely horrid defensively last year, why should he stay out on the court, just becuase he can gets the fans excited?

And as far as defense goes- don't even bring that arguement up because then Nate should have started at PG and Marbury probably wouldn't have gotten any time.

I don't understand. If read this site, then you would know that I don't even want Marbury on the team becuase he doesnt try on defense. Nate didn't deserve to be starting at PG either becuase his defense was deplorable man on man, Frye's wasn't much better and neither was Lee's.

Vets always get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to playing time and rookies will play if they provide help on both ends of the court but like in our case, the rookies didn't provide much defensively so they didn't play that much.

I think Lee was the best defender of the rookies and at the PF position becasue of his rebounding the ball which is why his playing time went up as the season went on.

I see you are wearing your Brown glasses again. The fact of the matter is this Brown wanted effort the rooks gave him effort and are almost never rewarded. You are going to sit here and tell me that Frye who can drop 20-25pts and actually tries on defence(do remember rookies never get the benefit of calls from refs) should sit in favor of AD, Malik Rose and Mo The Black Hole Taylor. Frye won the starting job after the 10-15 game of the season and was yoyo around and still managed to produce. Lee was guarding three and was the best rebounder on the team yet still he subjected to prolonged stints on the bench. Nate needed to be reigned a bit but he was the least of our problems at guard spot. He also was raked over the coals by Brown, why because I guess he was taking away the shine from Brown. The unit of Frye, Lee, Nate, Crawford and Butler was the best unit that Brown had that would give him what he craves yet he chose not to use them. Something stunk on ice last year is all I'm going to say the rookies deserved more time.

** Disclaimer**
Before anyone reads and calls me a non-Knick fan becuase I do not agree with views amongst certain people on this board, please know that I like the Knicks rookies, I think they have a good chance of being solid players for this organization. I DO NOT believed they earned more than what they got last year. As most fans do, we overate our own players and this is a classic example.
** End Disclaimer **

I'm not wearing Brown glasses, I'm wearing the glasses of coaches who do not like playing rookies for the mere fact that they are rookies and have done nothing in this league. Many coaches follow this rule. See Jerry Sloan last year with Deron Williams. So your going to sit here, with that picture of Isiah Thomas right next to your monitor, and tell me that Frye's absolutely poor defense was becuase the refs weren't giving him calls? Please, comeup with a better argument than that. Frye isn't a good defender right now and he hasn't been his whole college career. You guys see him picked 7th and you think he does everything well. I love Frye, I love where he can go but the fact of the matter is, he was pushed around constantly last year and that is something that old-school coaches like Brown are not going to stand for. Just becuase you can score 20-25 points a night, it isn't that great when you give it right back on defense. **see Nate Robinson, later in this post**

I agree with you about Lee. He did a good job last year, I still don't think his man defense was that great but Lee was rewarded with an average of 18mpg in both Feb. and March. Remember that Lee shared the SF and PF spot with Q1/Q2/Butler/Frye and minutes had to be spread out. Even when Frye was injured minutes still needed to be spread out.

Don't start with Nate Robinson, the guy did not play a lick of defense. Remember that game against Iverson where Nate scored 34? Well Nate was guarding Iverson that game and Iverson dropped 47 on him. I don't care how good Iverson is, Nate Robinson is just as quick as Iverson and should not have ANYONE scoring 47 on him. Nates defense was deplorable last year, absolutely deplorable. Basketball has two sides to the game and defense is one of them.

You know what really stunk last year? The putrid roster that Isiah Thomas put on the floor for the Knicks.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 07-18-2006 2:35 PM]

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by buddapaw:

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by franco12:


Nate and Lee were energy and if you have ever played a team sport, when one of your team mates is putting forth effort, you usually do likewise.

Of course but when did any player on the Knicks try harder because NAte and Lee were trying hard? I saw Marbury go out and play a game and not shoot the ball. Where was Eddy Curry playing harder because of Lee and Nate, where was Francis trying harder becuase of Lee and Nate. This argument doesn't help your case.

Rookies have trouble earning time, everyone knows they'll play hard but whether or not it's effective is another thing. Nate was absolutely horrid defensively last year, why should he stay out on the court, just becuase he can gets the fans excited?

And as far as defense goes- don't even bring that arguement up because then Nate should have started at PG and Marbury probably wouldn't have gotten any time.

I don't understand. If read this site, then you would know that I don't even want Marbury on the team becuase he doesnt try on defense. Nate didn't deserve to be starting at PG either becuase his defense was deplorable man on man, Frye's wasn't much better and neither was Lee's.

Vets always get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to playing time and rookies will play if they provide help on both ends of the court but like in our case, the rookies didn't provide much defensively so they didn't play that much.

I think Lee was the best defender of the rookies and at the PF position becasue of his rebounding the ball which is why his playing time went up as the season went on.

I see you are wearing your Brown glasses again. The fact of the matter is this Brown wanted effort the rooks gave him effort and are almost never rewarded. You are going to sit here and tell me that Frye who can drop 20-25pts and actually tries on defence(do remember rookies never get the benefit of calls from refs) should sit in favor of AD, Malik Rose and Mo The Black Hole Taylor. Frye won the starting job after the 10-15 game of the season and was yoyo around and still managed to produce. Lee was guarding three and was the best rebounder on the team yet still he subjected to prolonged stints on the bench. Nate needed to be reigned a bit but he was the least of our problems at guard spot. He also was raked over the coals by Brown, why because I guess he was taking away the shine from Brown. The unit of Frye, Lee, Nate, Crawford and Butler was the best unit that Brown had that would give him what he craves yet he chose not to use them. Something stunk on ice last year is all I'm going to say the rookies deserved more time.

** Disclaimer**
Before anyone reads and calls me a non-Knick fan becuase I do not agree with views amongst certain people on this board, please know that I like the Knicks rookies, I think they have a good chance of being solid players for this organization. I DO NOT believed they earned more than what they got last year. As most fans do, we overate our own players and this is a classic example.
** End Disclaimer **

I'm not wearing Brown glasses, I'm wearing the glasses of coaches who do not like playing rookies for the mere fact that they are rookies and have done nothing in this league. Many coaches follow this rule. See Jerry Sloan last year with Deron Williams. So your going to sit here, with that picture of Isiah Thomas right next to your monitor, and tell me that Frye's absolutely poor defense was becuase the refs weren't giving him calls? Please, comeup with a better argument than that. Frye isn't a good defender right now and he hasn't been his whole college career. You guys see him picked 7th and you think he does everything well. I love Frye, I love where he can go but the fact of the matter is, he was pushed around constantly last year and that is something that old-school coaches like Brown are not going to stand for. Just becuase you can score 20-25 points a night, it isn't that great when you give it right back on defense. **see Nate Robinson, later in this post**

I agree with you about Lee. He did a good job last year, I still don't think his man defense was that great but Lee was rewarded with an average of 18mpg in both Feb. and March. Remember that Lee shared the SF and PF spot with Q1/Q2/Butler/Frye and minutes had to be spread out. Even when Frye was injured minutes still needed to be spread out.

Don't start with Nate Robinson, the guy did not play a lick of defense. Remember that game against Iverson where Nate scored 34? Well Nate was guarding Iverson that game and Iverson dropped 47 on him. I don't care how good Iverson is, Nate Robinson is just as quick as Iverson and should not have ANYONE scoring 47 on him. Nates defense was deplorable last year, absolutely deplorable. Basketball has two sides to the game and defense is one of them.

You know what really stunk last year? The putrid roster that Isiah Thomas put on the floor for the Knicks.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 07-18-2006 2:35 PM]

I would never say you aren't a Knick fan
However since Frye cannot play defence and didn't deserved to start what did the other clowns who played ahead of him do to deserve to start. Old school is crap(if you have Lebron you are going to limit his minutes because he is a rookie?) as a coach you put the team in the best position to win.

Nate plays hard and I give him credit for that it takes time for a rookie to develop a defensive game in the pros. AI drops 40whatever on whomever he pleases. That's just like saying Bruce Bowen is just as quicks a Jordan and he still scored 50 points on him. JORDAN scores on anyone who guarded him. The same can be said about AI. Deron William sucked at the start of season hence his playing time suffered. As putrid as the roster was and still is in your opinion I believe they will manage to better the 23 - 59 record the coaching GOD Larry Brown managed to grace us with

Posted by martin:

Posted by franco12:

And as far as defense goes- don't even bring that arguement up because then Nate should have started at PG and Marbury probably wouldn't have gotten any time.

did you see any of the games last year or the Summer League games? Russell was by far the best PG on the team and Nate showed that he has a LONG way to go before he is even considered an average PG in the NBA.