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holfresh
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7/17/2006  11:47 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:


Every team in the NBA is looking for a dominating center..Shaq mioght just be the last of his breed...The Knicks are a lot closer to having one than most teams in the NBA...

I'm always amazed how much flack Frye's game gets on this board...The guy is one of the best PF in last year's draft...Had rookie of the year potential...Has the skills to develop into an allstar down the road..But leave it to Knick fans to knock the guys game...Amazing...


Leave it to some Knick fans to not knock any of the players on this team and think they are all worth their weight in gold.

Frye looks like he's going to be a solid player for the Knicks, but he has some weaknesses, you just refuse to acknowledge them because you want everything to be perfect. I love Frye, I love his shooting ability, now if he can hone his defense which has plagued him for 5 years between college and the NBA, he'll be a even better player than he is. But to not acknowledge that he needs to work on his defense is the REAL fallacy.

I'm sorry, I don't deal with rose-colored glasses, I deal with the here and now.



How do you feel about Lee's defense?



[Edited by - holfresh on 07-17-2006 11:56 AM]
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buddapaw
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7/17/2006  11:52 AM
For rookies defence takes time.... Only a few rookies make a defensive impact in their first year.
"Low Percentage Shots r US, these are our Knicks" "NY KNICKS the cure for basketball fanatic"
nyk4ever
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7/17/2006  11:59 AM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:


Every team in the NBA is looking for a dominating center..Shaq mioght just be the last of his breed...The Knicks are a lot closer to having one than most teams in the NBA...

I'm always amazed how much flack Frye's game gets on this board...The guy is one of the best PF in last year's draft...Had rookie of the year potential...Has the skills to develop into an allstar down the road..But leave it to Knick fans to knock the guys game...Amazing...


Leave it to some Knick fans to not knock any of the players on this team and think they are all worth their weight in gold.

Frye looks like he's going to be a solid player for the Knicks, but he has some weaknesses, you just refuse to acknowledge them because you want everything to be perfect. I love Frye, I love his shooting ability, now if he can hone his defense which has plagued him for 5 years between college and the NBA, he'll be a even better player than he is. But to not acknowledge that he needs to work on his defense is the REAL fallacy.

I'm sorry, I don't deal with rose-colored glasses, I deal with the here and now.



How do you fell about Lee's defense?


I think Lee is almost as bad as Frye is defensively. Your basing this all on last year where Lee was playing out of position at the 3 against players that are much quicker than him, Frye would have had the same struggles, if not worse that Lee had. Lee rebounds the ball at a much higher clip and hustles more than Frye which are 2 things that the Starting Lineup needs.

We've been over this before, but you still don't get it, I've said it a million times but you still don't read posts, you just base your idea of what a person thinks based on their past posts. Also, what does Lee have to do with this? I made a post about Frye which you skipped completely over and went straight to Lee. Good job.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
holfresh
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7/17/2006  12:05 PM

I have seen many of your post where you knock Frye's game one way or another...Lee gets a pass with you and you talk about dealing with the here and now...Lee is the second worst defender on teh Knicks behind Jackie Butler...Yet you say nothing about his D...But display yourself as keeping it real...Amundson and others used Lee in Vegas yet you say Lee should be on the Vegas first team...And for your guide, Frye is a better defender than Lee is at the 4 spot....But you feel he should start over Frye...Thank god you are just a fan and some one who makes decisions....

nyk4ever
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7/17/2006  12:11 PM
Posted by holfresh:


I have seen many of your post where you knock Frye's game one way or another...Lee gets a pass with you and you talk about dealing with the here and now...Lee is the second worst defender on teh Knicks behind Jackie Butler...Yet you say nothing about his D...But display yourself as keeping it real...Amundson and others used Lee in Vegas yet you say Lee should be on the Vegas first team...And for your guide, Frye is a better defender than Lee is at the 4 spot....But you feel he should start over Frye...Thank god you are just a fan and some one who makes decisions....


LOL. Have you read anything?! Jesus Holfresh, your basing everything on the past. In my previous post I clearly stated:
I think Lee is almost as bad as Frye is defensively.
Is that not clear enough for you?

For some reason you fail to realize that the starting lineup does not need Frye's shooting ability, it needs Lee's rebounding ability. You think Frye should start just because he was picked 7th in the draft last year. You say that Frye is a better defender than Lee but you use no examples to backup just how he is a better defender. You just make claims that you see through your rose-colored glasses and you are absolutely obssessed with the world TALENT. Frye is a nice player, but right now he brings nothing to the starting lineup playing next Eddy Curry, becuase NEITHER OF THEM REBOUND THE BALL.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 07-17-2006 12:12 PM]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
holfresh
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7/17/2006  12:23 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:


I have seen many of your post where you knock Frye's game one way or another...Lee gets a pass with you and you talk about dealing with the here and now...Lee is the second worst defender on teh Knicks behind Jackie Butler...Yet you say nothing about his D...But display yourself as keeping it real...Amundson and others used Lee in Vegas yet you say Lee should be on the Vegas first team...And for your guide, Frye is a better defender than Lee is at the 4 spot....But you feel he should start over Frye...Thank god you are just a fan and some one who makes decisions....


LOL. Have you read anything?! Jesus Holfresh, your basing everything on the past. In my previous post I clearly stated:
I think Lee is almost as bad as Frye is defensively.
Is that not clear enough for you?

For some reason you fail to realize that the starting lineup does not need Frye's shooting ability, it needs Lee's rebounding ability. You think Frye should start just because he was picked 7th in the draft last year. You say that Frye is a better defender than Lee but you use no examples to backup just how he is a better defender. You just make claims that you see through your rose-colored glasses and you are absolutely obssessed with the world TALENT. Frye is a nice player, but right now he brings nothing to the starting lineup playing next Eddy Curry, becuase NEITHER OF THEM REBOUND THE BALL.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 07-17-2006 12:12 PM]



Frye is not as bad a defender that you are making him out to be....And yeah I did read you post, I don't agree with it at all...Fact is the rest of the NBA would love to get their hands on a guy like Frye...Frye should and will start this season simply because he is our best power forward at this point in time....Your point you made in other post where you omitted Fyre out of the lineup because Francis and JRose were also starting does not make sense...JRose and Francis will be move as quickly as possible...Curry and Frye are the future of this organization, like it or not...They need to learn to play together...The key to success this season is Frye, Carry and Marbs and how the team responds defensively....Nothing rose colored about that...It's shorted sighted on your part not recognizing Frye's game as potentially being one of the better pF in the league down the road...

metra
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7/17/2006  12:28 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

Frye is a nice player, but right now he brings nothing to the starting lineup playing next Eddy Curry, becuase NEITHER OF THEM REBOUND THE BALL.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 07-17-2006 12:12 PM]

Brings nothing to the starting lineup? Are you kidding? He may not be a good rebounder/defender but his offensive skills are unique on our team. Since Doleac/KT, we haven't had a big man that can shoot 15ft out and play with Steph on the pick and roll. On offense, his game is the perfect complement to Curry. On defense.. not so much. But let's not say he brings "nothing" to the starting lineup when he obviously does.


[Edited by - metra on 07-17-2006 12:29 PM]
nyk4ever
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7/17/2006  12:32 PM
Posted by holfresh:

Frye is not as bad a defender that you are making him out to be....And yeah I did read you post, I don't agree with it at all...Fact is the rest of the NBA would love to get their hands on a guy like Frye...Frye should and will start this season simply because he is our best power forward at this point in time....Your point you made in other post where you omitted Fyre out of the lineup because Francis and JRose were also starting does not make sense...JRose and Francis will be move as quickly as possible...Curry and Frye are the future of this organization, like it or not...They need to learn to play together...The key to success this season is Frye, Carry and Marbs and how the team responds defensively....Nothing rose colored about that...It's shorted sighted on your part not recognizing Frye's game as potentially being one of the better pF in the league down the road...


I can agree with half of your post. I can agree with the fact that Curry and Frye need to learn how to play together but that DOES NOT omit the fact that is best for the team. You are often a person who talks about putting your best lineup on the floor and having them going out there and play. I feel the Knicks best starting lineup should include David Lee becuase he brings things to the team that our other big men don't, which is rebounding. You have to rebound the basketball if your going to win basketball games.

You can't backup your points with things like "the rest of the NBA would love to get their hands on Frye" that doesn't strengthen your argument becuase your still not telling me what he does better than Lee other than shooting the ball. You keep saying Frye is not as bad of a defender as I make him out to be but your not backing it up. I've seen the guy in college and in the NBA hell even the SUMMER LEAGE twice and he's always getting pushed around, he HAS To fix that.

Also, what makes you think that Francis and JRose are going to be dealt?
Francis and JRose were also starting does not make sense...JRose and Francis will be move as quickly as possible...

Like it or not they are both on this team right now and your God Isiah has said many times he isn't interested in making ANY trades and he likes the team as it is, so I can't agree with that part of your post. You keep dealing with what MIGHT happen, while I'm dealing with the here and now and the to me, the here and now says that I'd rather have Lee in the starting lineup becuase he rebounds the ball, he hustles and no one else in the starting lineup does either of those things. To me it would be counter-productive to have Frye starting when guys like Marbury, Francis and Curry are going to be taking as many shots as they are. Frye plays extremely well with Jamal Crawford and Craw is not going to be starting so you might as well put Frye in the same lineup as Craw becuase they work so well together and the 2nd unit can use Fryes shooting ability.

Will you agree? I doubt it, will you read over things? probably. That's the way I feel and that's what I'd like to see Isiah do. Will he do it, I don't know but I think he should.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
nyk4ever
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7/17/2006  12:33 PM
Posted by metra:
Posted by nyk4ever:

Frye is a nice player, but right now he brings nothing to the starting lineup playing next Eddy Curry, becuase NEITHER OF THEM REBOUND THE BALL.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 07-17-2006 12:12 PM]

Brings nothing to the starting lineup? Are you kidding? He may not be a good rebounder/defender but his offensive skills are unique on our team. Since Doleac/KT, we haven't had a big man that can shoot 15ft out and play with Steph on the pick and roll. On offense, his game is the perfect complement to Curry. On defense.. not so much. But let's not say he brings "nothing" to the starting lineup when he obviously does.


[Edited by - metra on 07-17-2006 12:29 PM]

Woops, I meant, that he brings nothing to the starting lineup that already isnt there. I think the starting lineup has enough scoring which is what Frye does.

My bad for leaving that out.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
NYKBocker
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7/17/2006  12:42 PM
A dominating center will come in the form of Greg Oden.

Also, say what you will about Tim Duncan but he plays a lot of center in their champ runs.
4949
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7/18/2006  3:49 AM
Posted by bigbeast:

I'm disputing that the need for a center wasn't essential before. Every center you named is no longer in the league. I'm taking a look at the league as it stands now and as it moves into the future and the traditional role of the center as diminished somewhat.

Other than Shaq and perhaps Ming, there aren't any dominating centers anymore.

Wing players have become the new dominate position in the NBA. James nearly carried that team to the conference finals where they had no business being.
Phoenix, Dallas, New Jersey, Cleveland, all are in position to get to the finals without much in the middle. Again, having a dominant center is something everyone would love to have but most 7 footers in todays game are playing out on the perimeter.

Chris Bosh, Garnett, Dirk, just to name a few are all 7 feet tall but perfer to play on the perimiter. Thats the new mentality.

Did you see any of those teams win' those championships? I' did and those centers made a huge difference in those championships, or at least getting they're teams to the big game. I would have to say that anyone who thinks we don't need a dominating center, needs to look closely at the differance it has made for many teams. We ourselves were in the playoffs for about (what was it?) 15 years straight? And that was because we had Ewing in the middle. Notice how that went away, especially when Ewing went away for the most part? And also, as long as Shaq, Wallace and Duncan are playing the middle, that mentality of 7-footers playing the perimiter isn't going to be as successful. Maybe in about three or four more years, but also, who's to say three or four more dominating centers don't come into the league by then also, who play traditional center in the paint, via the draft?
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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7/18/2006  3:53 AM
Posted by EwingsGlass:
Posted by nyk4ever:

Frye might get a block or steal here and there but do not confuse him for a good defensive player. He gets pushed around way too easily by other players his own size and if the Knicks are going to go anywhere this year, he's going to really have to improve on that aspect of his game.

I really never thought he was getting pushed around. I thought he boxed out pretty well. I think the deficiencies in individual defense that we see is actually the deficiencies of the team defense. When parts of the defense collapse, it is more difficult to defend against your own man. Regardless, I think the point everyone is making is that "team offense" may be good and all, but "team defense" needs to improve also.

Regardless of a great offensive, good defensive team, we still need a dominating center!
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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7/18/2006  3:57 AM
Curry is more than capable of being dominating. The problem has always been 'does he recognize his potential'? At the end of last season, I got the sense that he finally got it and the fact he is being developed by Aguire, says a lot, but we'll have to wait and see. The question on that is 'has the kid finally become a man'?! That's what we're all hoping for. This is the very reason Zeke picked him up in the first place.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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7/18/2006  3:59 AM
Posted by holfresh:


Every team in the NBA is looking for a dominating center..Shaq mioght just be the last of his breed...The Knicks are a lot closer to having one than most teams in the NBA...

I'm always amazed how much flack Frye's game gets on this board...The guy is one of the best PF in last year's draft...Had rookie of the year potential...Has the skills to develop into an allstar down the road..But leave it to Knick fans to knock the guys game...Amazing...




I agree.
I'll never trust this' team again.
rvhoss
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7/18/2006  9:24 AM
I agree.
Posted by 4949:
Posted by holfresh:


Every team in the NBA is looking for a dominating center..Shaq mioght just be the last of his breed...The Knicks are a lot closer to having one than most teams in the NBA...

I'm always amazed how much flack Frye's game gets on this board...The guy is one of the best PF in last year's draft...Had rookie of the year potential...Has the skills to develop into an allstar down the road..But leave it to Knick fans to knock the guys game...Amazing...




I agree.

all kool aid all the time.
Plain and simple

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