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Spurs made offer to Jackie B this morning
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7/12/2006  10:41 PM
Posted by Travla:

According to an agent Herb Rudoy, the Spurs made an offfer to Jackie B. this morning, no financial details revealed yet. I think we might lose Butler and I'd hate to see him go but you gotta do what you gotta do!!

Get rid of Taylor now, to get it down to 15, but don't sign Butler to a rediculous contract, if that in fact is going to be the case, in which case forget Butler, keep Taylor and let his contract run out or trade him later.
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joec32033
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7/13/2006  5:08 AM
Match the offer and turn around and offer them Jerome and $3 mil for Eric Williams (Last year of contract, cut immediately) or Brent Barry (this year and next left, cut immediatly).
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7/13/2006  7:32 AM
what are the chance of ANY trade proposals involving Jerome that don't include Lee at the minimum happening
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
fishmike
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7/13/2006  7:37 AM
how about if someone offered the Knicks Jerome James? I mean really.... people. He's about as tradable as Shandon Anderson was a couple years ago, and Shandon only had 2 years left. Big Game as 4
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VDesai
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7/13/2006  8:09 AM
Has Jackie B. actually signed this offer sheet? We can't match anything till he signs anything. Just because the Spurs made him an offer doesn't mean this is the one he'd accept.
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7/13/2006  8:31 AM
Posted by VDesai:

Has Jackie B. actually signed this offer sheet? We can't match anything till he signs anything. Just because the Spurs made him an offer doesn't mean this is the one he'd accept.


He has.

http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/butler_signs_spurs_7m_offer_knicks_marc_berman.htm

If the Knicks don't match I'll be disappointed and confused.
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VDesai
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7/13/2006  8:32 AM
3 years/ 7 mil? That's nothing. I don't know why that article calls the numbers "staggering" and thinks the Knicks would be unliklely to match. IMO that's a bargain contract. Knicks should match that easily and still have room to sign another player like Woods or Ariza.
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7/13/2006  8:39 AM
Daily News seems to think we'll match....

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/434670p-366223c.html
TMS
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7/13/2006  9:38 AM
fish, good call... i remember you said you'd offer up a 3 year $8 million dollar deal to sign Butler... u think the Knicks will match?
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martin
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7/13/2006  9:43 AM
Posted by VDesai:

3 years/ 7 mil? That's nothing. I don't know why that article calls the numbers "staggering" and thinks the Knicks would be unliklely to match. IMO that's a bargain contract. Knicks should match that easily and still have room to sign another player like Woods or Ariza.

it is a bargain.

We should think of it this way. If Butler's salary was about $400K last year and tack on 3 extra years for $7M, that would have made his 4 year salary comparable to a first round pick in the same year as Frye, Lee, Nate at around pick 15-17. That's what the numbers add up to and averaged over a 4 year time span.
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crzymdups
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7/13/2006  9:45 AM
I think the Knicks will match this. They can save some money by buying out Big Snacks. Let someone else offer him a minimum deal... at least it would be a little less we had to pay that jerk. Also, I guarantee that guy uses his full per diem. So there's savings there, too.
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fishmike
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7/13/2006  9:51 AM
Posted by TMS:

fish, good call... i remember you said you'd offer up a 3 year $8 million dollar deal to sign Butler... u think the Knicks will match?
I think its below market value and I think we do match. Should be a good pickup for the Knicks (or good keep).

Once again it all goes back to making NO deal is better than making a bad deal. How's Jerome Jame's 4 remaining years at $25 look now? RV? You there? Is there anyone on this forum that would rather see Jerome James playing over Jackie Butler? Good organizations always wait. The only way Jerome's fat ass and dead weight contract are going anywhere is if we take back somone else's mistake. Dumping Jerome on the Nuggets and taking back KMart isnt a good deal. Its just crap out crap in.
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purple012870
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7/13/2006  9:52 AM
A couple of things to consider here:

-Knicks have 7 days to match

-Gregg Popovich, the Spurs coach/GM, is trying to stick it to the Knicks here by overpaying for a guy to steal him. He's trying to put the Knicks in a bad position of losing a guy or overpaying to match. Popovich is best friends with Larry Brown.

Here's what I think the Knicks response will be. In the next 7 days:

a) The Knicks will pursue Kenyon Martin. Denver desperately wants him out (both for financial & chemistry reasons....he doesn't get along with George Karl). Knicks are looking to dump as well. So, two packages make sense. Steve Francis for Martin straight up. Or, Mo Taylor (who is an absolute lazy dog of a player) + Jerome James (see Mo Taylor). In this scenario, Knicks definitely match the Spurs offer for Butler as James (the backup C) would be gone. A front court of Curry, Lee, Frye & Martin is pretty versatile & pretty good.

b) The Knicks don't get the Nuggets to bite on that package for KMart. If this is the case, its unclear whether they'd match the Spurs offer.

I don't think they can save any $$$ on a buy out of Big Snacks. 1) Why would he accept less? 2) A buy out doesn't get you out of luxury tax or salary cap problems.
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7/13/2006  9:54 AM
Well, $7M for 3 years is a good deal but it will cost the Knicks $14M for three years cause of luxary tax. That makes it a lot worse from our side.
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crzymdups
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7/13/2006  9:58 AM
Posted by martin:

Well, $7M for 3 years is a good deal but it will cost the Knicks $14M for three years cause of luxary tax. That makes it a lot worse from our side.

yeah, but that contract, if nothing else, makes Jackie a hell of a trading chip. when you look at Stephen Hunter getting 4yrs $15 million, they're different players, but both are definitely backups... its a fair deal.
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martin
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7/13/2006  10:13 AM
Posted by purple012870:

A couple of things to consider here:

-Knicks have 7 days to match

-Gregg Popovich, the Spurs coach/GM, is trying to stick it to the Knicks here by overpaying for a guy to steal him. He's trying to put the Knicks in a bad position of losing a guy or overpaying to match. Popovich is best friends with Larry Brown.

The Spurs try to find players who fit in, have manageable contracts, and play to win. They are a VERY fiscally responsible team and are finely attuned with the luxury cap limit. I don't think they sign players for spite or whatever. Any team when signing a player that is a restricted free agent will offer a value that makes it uncomforable for the orginal team to match - that's good strategy. That's all. To suggest that Pop is a friends with LB and that's part of the reason is folley.

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crzymdups
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7/13/2006  10:15 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by purple012870:

A couple of things to consider here:

-Knicks have 7 days to match

-Gregg Popovich, the Spurs coach/GM, is trying to stick it to the Knicks here by overpaying for a guy to steal him. He's trying to put the Knicks in a bad position of losing a guy or overpaying to match. Popovich is best friends with Larry Brown.

The Spurs try to find players who fit in, have manageable contracts, and play to win. They are a VERY fiscally responsible team and are finely attuned with the luxury cap limit. I don't think they sign players for spite or whatever. Any team when signing a player that is a restricted free agent will offer a value that makes it uncomforable for the orginal team to sign. That's all. To suggest that Pop is a friends with LB and that's part of the reason is folley.

agreed. if anything, Pop was probably looking for a big man and Larry probably told him Jackie was a good player, hard worker, gave effort, "played right way," etc.
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TMS
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7/13/2006  10:16 AM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by TMS:

fish, good call... i remember you said you'd offer up a 3 year $8 million dollar deal to sign Butler... u think the Knicks will match?
I think its below market value and I think we do match. Should be a good pickup for the Knicks (or good keep).

Once again it all goes back to making NO deal is better than making a bad deal. How's Jerome Jame's 4 remaining years at $25 look now? RV? You there? Is there anyone on this forum that would rather see Jerome James playing over Jackie Butler? Good organizations always wait. The only way Jerome's fat ass and dead weight contract are going anywhere is if we take back somone else's mistake. Dumping Jerome on the Nuggets and taking back KMart isnt a good deal. Its just crap out crap in.


i would say it's reasonable... certainly a better investment than Big Turd James for $30 mil... can't believe some people on this forum actually thought that was a fair deal for that scrub because of a stretch of games in the playoffs where he put up good #'s, even though his career #'s pointed to him being barely above a LLE type player in value.

on KMart, i have to say, if it's a tradeoff of JJ & Q Rich for KMart & a 2nd round pick, i have a hard time refusing that type of deal... it gives DEN about $30 million in cap savings in the last year of KMart's deal (if you include the luxury tax figure), so who knows... for the Knicks, it opens up a roster spot & gives you some potential good returns if KMart ever returns to form, & additional picks are always good to have.
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NYKBocker
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7/13/2006  11:11 AM
Posted by Marv:

what if - i'm just saying what if - jerome comes in in shape and provides the d and shotblocking that we need at the 5?

This would be best case scenario for the Knicks.
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7/13/2006  12:30 PM
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/41499/20060713/knicks_expected_to_match_jackie_butler/

New York Daily News - The New York Knicks are expected to match the three year, $7 million offer sheet that Jackie Butler signed with the San Antonio Spurs , sources told the New York Daily News.

The Knicks have seven days to match the offer or work out a sign-and-trade for Butler, a player Isiah Thomas uncovered in the CBA two years ago.

Joining the Spurs would be more beneficial to Butler because it would give him an opportunity to start alongside Tim Duncan and play with a perennial contender. The Spurs lost Nazr Mohammed to free agency and traded Rasho Nesterovic. In New York, Butler would be playing behind Eddy Curry and Jerome James.

The Knicks made a qualifying offer of $900,000 to Butler and questioned whether he could get a better deal. Thomas even predicted that negotiations with Butler would extend into September.

"My summer is much shorter," said Butler's agent, Keith Glass
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