Posted by BasketballJones:

I'd still like to know: Who are the "true" Knick fans, and who are the "untrue" knick fans?

I was gonna post pretty much the same thing Jones, I just couldn't figure the right way to word it without sounding condescending.

Making such a general statement painting everyone on the board with one brush or another-especially ones labeling them "true fans" or "not true fans", you had to figure people would start asking the same question Jones asked.

Posted by MisterClutch:

Posted by fishmike:

I want Isiah gone for the same reason I wanted Spoon, Travis Knight and Howard Eisley gone. They all suck.

If people want this guy to fail as you suggest I would think its because they think him getting fired is the best thing for this organization.

I wonder if you will change your mind about Isiah if Curry starts avg 20 and 8 next year. Haha, its kind of funny but so many things are gonna be depended on Curry's play next year.

no I wont, and even if Curry does that it was a bad trade. What guys like you fail to see is that there is such a thing as circumstance and forsight. The Curry trade was a terrible trade for the Knicks. Curry is a good young player. He's a creampuff but still a good asset. But we traded for a player that everyone in the NBA KNEW was NOT going to be a Bull next year. We also KNEW that the only other offer out there was from the Lakers, and it wasnt even close to what the Knicks were offering (remember, he was a S&T so his agent was brokering the whole thing).

So you still think giving away Sweetney, and unprotected first rounder this year (turns out to be #2) a swap with ZERO protection next year and your only SF for a guy that was leaving anyway is a good trade for us? Seriously...

Posted by martin:

Posted by BasketballJones:

I'd still like to know: Who are the "true" Knick fans, and who are the "untrue" knick fans?

true Knicks fans know the answer to that and obviously you are not a true fan.

Ha ha, Bjones isn't true fan. I can see the emperor's new clothes...can you?

Posted by bigbeast:

Posted by BasketballJones:

I'd still like to know: Who are the "true" Knick fans, and who are the "untrue" knick fans?

The title of the thread is a little misleading. As I said before, it just seems that some people are rooting harder for Isiah to fail than for the Knicks to suceed.

how about this: There is something to be said that a .500 next year will be an "impovement" in the eyes of Dolan and so Isiah stays. I think there are a lot of people who soley want to see Isiah gone, even at the cost of lossing a few games this coming season.

I mean, the year before LeBron came out most bottom feeder teams were cheering for losses, right? Same principle.

Posted by bigbeast:

I can understand you guys wanted Isiah removed as GM. But he could turn out to be a very good coach. Best case scenario is for Isiha to hire a GM while he mans the sidelines....

I think it is important to try to be specific, rather than to say "you guys". There are people here, probably most, whose postion is more "nuanced" (to use a dirty word from the 2004 election).

Posted by BasketballJones:

By the way, I'm personally hopeful that Isiah will be succesful in coaching this team next year. If so, I hope another GM will be hired.

same.

Posted by BasketballJones:

By the way, I'm personally hopeful that Isiah will be succesful in coaching this team next year. If so, I hope another GM will be hired.

That would be great. I don't like the idea of Isiah trying to make this team Phoenix East UNLESS he adds some defense into the pot. I can stomach Isiah as a coach but NOT as a GM anymore. If he is successful and stays on as coach of this team that would still enable him to draft, which is his strongest suit, obviously.

My truth is I hope Isiah loses patience for the last time with Marbury and dumps him, regardless of our record.

I've just seen the bottom fall out of too many of his teams/seasons and feel he's a time bomb. I've heard enough quotes form him and witnessed enough of his antics to know he's someone I, as a player, couldn't coexist with.

And I, as a fan, can never be relaxed and confident - even in the face of apparent short term success - with him on the team.

Get rid of soulsuckerbury and then lets see where we're at.

Posted by martin:

how about this: There is something to be said that a .500 next year will be an "impovement" in the eyes of Dolan and so Isiah stays.

Martin, we won 23 games last year, in order to be at .500 we'd have to win 42 games; a 19 game improvement on last season. Please help me understand how that is not an improvement by any objective standard.

Isn't Chaney also still under contract? If not he can probably be resigned. He had more than 23 wins.

Posted by martin:

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by martin:

how about this: There is something to be said that a .500 next year will be an "impovement" in the eyes of Dolan and so Isiah stays.

Martin, we won 23 games last year, in order to be at .500 we'd have to win 42 games; a 19 game improvement on last season. Please help me understand how that is not an improvement by any objective standard.

Didn't Isiah start his rein with a 37 win team?

Yes with a bunch of immovable contracts, on older players. And the very next year the star player and leading scorer of that 37 win team was done. If not for H20's rapid deterioration, the addition of Marbury would have indeed put us onto a path towards contention with some moves here and there.

Hey, by any objective standard, if you look purely at records from last year to this coming year (assuming a .500% team), that's a VAST improvement. Wow, complex conclusion.

Hey buddy, you are the one who put 'improvement' in your sentence, to imply that it was not an improvement.

The long-term question of course is: are we closer to a championship team. Do we have the right core, is the team flexible enough to get the right core if it isn't here. Are we cap-strapped (maybe this doesn't matter if Dolan keeps spending). Can we attract the right free agents?

None of that is hampered in any way by having a .500 season. One of the many major mistakes Brown made by coaching so poorly and devaluing the roster, is that it makes those guys much harder to move. Assume everyone on the roster is wrong and you wanted them gone. If these guys are on a .500 team, someone will want them. This is a point that LB, and his supporters have failed to grasp. A .500 team will also be more attractive to free agents than a .280 team. And guess what? If you can turn a .500 team into a .600 team (turning 42 wins into 50) then you are actually close to having a championship team. Everything must happen in steps, and getting to .500 is the first step no matter what you think about the roster, GM, or coach.

Those are the reason folks would want Isiah gone, they don't think he has got what it takes as a President to fill those goals. I mean, a lot of different coaches can probably come in and be happy and get more wins than last year, right? Throw Wilkens in there, he probably is still under contract. Does that make them the right choice?

Many different coaches can probably get us close or around .500. But coming off of an atrocius last season to having a coach who believes in these players and isn't just here for the paycheck, is a different story. I don't think there is any coach who will get more out of these players than Isiah. I'm not saying he's the best coach in the game, but he's the best for this team. I think we get to see what these guys are made of this year, especially, Marb, Fry, Curry, Lee, and Craw.

And I'm excited about that.