Actually this is what I'm starting to hear from the players.

"We got rid of the pariah that caused us to not work hard and/or try on the court. Now we have Isiah as our coach everything is the way we like it. So now as a player I have no excuse to quit at any point"

That's what I'm hearing and I love it. I better not hear one player complain about roles or styles or lack of playing time. They all got what they wanted. Everything is great now. So I want less talk and more playing.

Bip, I am surprised by Lee's comments actually, if anything. You'd think he'd just continue biting the bullet, but either way, you just gotto hope they continue working, and hope that this circus, as Channing puts it, doesn't get to their heads and impedes their progress.

I'm actually fine with the comments, regardless, by Lee and Frye, but Nate has me worried.

Joy To The World

"It was like, 'I'm trying to do everything you ask me, and it seems like it's not good enough,' " Robinson said. "It's like, 'We're butting heads here because, Coach, you told me to do this yesterday, but today, you told me not to do it.' ... At first, it was like he was trying to take my joy."

Posted by Allanfan20:

Bip, I am surprised by Lee's comments actually, if anything. You'd think he'd just continue biting the bullet, but either way, you just gotto hope they continue working, and hope that this circus, as Channing puts it, doesn't get to their heads and impedes their progress.

I'm actually fine with the comments, regardless, by Lee and Frye, but Nate has me worried.

I actually wish the guys would come in focused and ready to play but I'm okay with guys venting. But what I'm saying is that the players are now telling us that the reason they quit on us last year and did not play well is because of LB.The more these guys say this stuff the less excuses they have when the season starts. So venting now is fine with me. But when training camp arrives these guys better be in shape, ready to play, no excuses and ready to be Knicks.

Posted by joec32033:

I'm actually fine with the comments, regardless, by Lee and Frye, but Nate has me worried.

From the Post:

"Coach Brown is so old-school," Robinson said. "He wants everything done just like this, not getting the crowd involved. Isiah wants everyone to have fun.

"At first he (Brown) was trying to take my joy [away] - don't do this, don't do that. At the same time I had people in my corner saying, 'Don't ever change who you are. You got here by being who you are. By being Nate Robinson.' "

This is the most troubling quote I ever read from a PG...listening to "people in his corner rather than his COACH about basketball?!?

Joec this is why it has become so difficult to coach nowadays. It's also why coaches need organizational support more than ever. Because all these players have support groups and agents and former coaches that tell them they are great and that their current coach knows nothing. Then they talk about how they won a slam dunk contest or dominated in highschool. Most NBA teams are realizing this issue and are doing things to combat it. It's teams like the Knicks and the Blazers and a couple others that still live in this era.

Isiah is an underrated coach. And I felt that way before these "Isiah ain't so bad as coach" articles or these player interviews praising him took place. While he hasn't coached enough to build up his resume. He knows how to develop players. And he knows how to get players to respond positivly to him. While Isiah didn't coach as long as Brown. His players absolutly loved playing for him. Thats a trend he carried over from Indy. So its not a suprise that they are singing praise right now. As a coach you gotta find a way to get the most out of your players. Coaches use different tactics. Depends on the makeup of the team. The best of the best are the adaptable ones who knows who must get heavily critisized and knows who must get coddled in order to get the best out of them. But if you have a coach with a specific style then you gotta have the players that match. Isiah's style is that of a players coach. And even that doesn't work with everyone.

The players didn't fit the coach. You could call the players soft. You could call the coach senile. You could call the GM stupid. But truthfully there were reasons everyone did what they did right or wrong(mostley wrong). But as of right now the coach & Gm are on the same page. The coach and players are on the same page. Its very very clear what needs to be done this season, and what we are going to try and do this season.

Isiah has potential as a head coach to be a very good one.

joe, did you say nate got playing time? you really have no recollection of last year at all.

and I'm am way more troubled by your view of the current roster. Bip, I don't know why you are still clinging to this "the players quit" mantra.

nate, lee and frye never quit on larry brown, so please stop lumping everyone that is not larry brown into your narrow view of how last season went down.

Marbury was hurt, frye got hurt and I believe even nate won a game for us against the sixers.

Oh, and don't forget crawford didn't quit either.

So stop saying everyone quit and stop trying to suddenly say that channing and lee are explaining why they quit when it is completely to the contrary.

Basically, stop defending larry brown and start talking about what we have here and now.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 07-06-2006 5:43 PM]

Posted by rvhoss:

joe, did you say nate got playing time? you really have no recollection of last year at all.

and I'm am way more troubled by your view of the current roster. Bip, I don't know why you are still clinging to this "the players quit" mantra.

nate, lee and frye never quit on larry brown, so please stop lumping everyone that is not larry brown into your narrow view of how last season went down.

Marbury was hurt, frye got hurt and I believe even nate won a game for us against the sixers.

Oh, and don't forget crawford didn't quit either.

So stop saying everyone quit and stop trying to suddenly say that channing and lee are explaining why they quit when it is completely to the contrary.

Basically, stop defending larry brown and start talking about what we have here and now.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 07-06-2006 5:43 PM]

rvhoss: I am not defending LB I am just making the next logical conclusion. If LB was the reason for our failure than he is gone. Taht means the reason for our failure is gone. That means that we should win now. It's just a logical conclusion. So that means I don't want to hear anymore excuses if this team loses. Now that we got rid of our obstacle it's time to start winning.

LB is gone now. It's time to move on and worry about what we need to do NOW. It's about now. It's about building a team NOW. Get it a team. If half of our roster quits that means they all quit. In order for us to win we need to develop a team. If it's going to be about the vets quitting and the rookies playing hard than get ready for more of the sam from last year.

RV: less emotion and more reading. I wrote in another post that I have absolutely no problem with the rookies venting about LB. I said I had no problem with the vets venting about LB during the season. I have no problem with guys crying as long as they play hard when the games are on. Please read my posts before once again boring me by lumping me in the LB love crowd. It's going on about 3 months of you boring me with this nonsense. LB is gone. The excuses are gone. I am ecstatic about that. This is the best thing for the Knicks because now it means the players MUST PLAY HARD FOR ISIAH. Unless of course our owner does something stupid like undermine Isiah by giving him a one year ultimatum in front of the players. But what are the chances of that happening?

not this, "I wrote in a previous post" stuff again...the problem bip is that you change like the wind to avoid being labeled.

Most of the time you're posts indicate that you don't like these particular players and that failure is to be expected, then you say that wait, these are a bunch of players that should put forth a .500 record.

So, I'm at the point where you are someone that used to be a coach and loves larry brown because he is one of the best coaches of all time and as a coach understand his first year drill seargent methods of coaching.

break them down, build them up and if they aren't willing to be built up, get rid of them.

Me, I like that methodology as well, but these are all first and second year go rounds with the knicks and the coaches first go round.

And historically, when a coach is up against all odds, he's fired if he doesn't succeed.

If you are gonna have a crazy method then you better go out like hoosiers, or goldie in wildcats, or denzel in that other movie (you know, when the coaches and players tried to undermine his authority and he still succeeded), or major league. or heck mr. buttermaker in bad news bears, he was a drunk and didn't even want the job.

But if you fall flat on your face and lose more games than in that teams history, you suck as a coach.

so for every time you defend lb and then say "but in my other post I said he sucked" then you are playing both sides and that means you don't have anything to say.

IMHO

Posted by rvhoss:

not this, "I wrote in a previous post" stuff again...the problem bip is that you change like the wind to avoid being labeled.

Most of the time you're posts indicate that you don't like these particular players and that failure is to be expected, then you say that wait, these are a bunch of players that should put forth a .500 record.

So, I'm at the point where you are someone that used to be a coach and loves larry brown because he is one of the best coaches of all time and as a coach understand his first year drill seargent methods of coaching.

break them down, build them up and if they aren't willing to be built up, get rid of them.

Me, I like that methodology as well, but these are all first and second year go rounds with the knicks and the coaches first go round.

And historically, when a coach is up against all odds, he's fired if he doesn't succeed.

If you are gonna have a crazy method then you better go out like hoosiers, or goldie in wildcats, or denzel in that other movie (you know, when the coaches and players tried to undermine his authority and he still succeeded), or major league. or heck mr. buttermaker in bad news bears, he was a drunk and didn't even want the job.

But if you fall flat on your face and lose more games than in that teams history, you suck as a coach.

so for every time you defend lb and then say "but in my other post I said he sucked" then you are playing both sides and that means you don't have anything to say.

IMHO

Once again RV you feel everyone has to have your opinion to be correct. I have to hate EVERYTHING LB does or else I am a lover. I have not changed my opinion of LB. I respect his style. A lot of his style I have taken elements from. I am a disciplinarian coach. But that does not mean I coach like LB and that I think he did a good job this year. It's okay to respect someone and not like what they did this year. My favorite player of all time was Charlie Ward, guess what, he had many a mediocre season. I'm sorry I don't fall into your hate everything about him or that means you love him philosophy.

I made a post a few weeks ago stating my opiniion on every player/coach/GM/owner of the knicks. It's all their in black and white. I can bring it up again so you can read it. If there is anything contradictory in there call me on it. Stop inventing opinions for me.

I am of the opinion we undermine every coach we bring in here. That includes LB, Don Chaney, Herb, Lenny and now with the one year ultimatum on national tv it includes Isiah. Isiah said he was very po'd at Dolan for doing that. I'm just as angry. I understand where he's coming from. It's ridiculous that no matter who we bring in, it's never placed on the players to perform. It's always the coach, or the system. This is so beyond LB it's ridiculous that we keep bringing him into the conversation. Exactly what I have been bitching aobut for years just happened again to Isiah on national tv and you continue to think it's aobut LB. You are fixated and seem to think everyone else is too. This is about a team that has been in steady decline since 1999. We need to make changes and everyone thinks that it's about LB.

So once again if it is LB that leaves us with a logical conclusion. This conclusion is independent of whether you like him or not. Love him or hate him is irrelevant. If he is the reason we lost last year, now that he is gone, the logical next step is that now we will be much better. Trust me you fixating fool, I will be ecstatic if this is the case.

You mean the last five games where half were NOT coached by larry brown, oh those last 5 games.

As martin was able to do to me, I think you are beginning to see the light...my job is done here.

Posted by joec32033:

joe, did you say nate got playing time? you really have no recollection of last year at all.

Nate got 21 minutes per game last year, in inconsistent minutes per game. The last 5 games he played 45, 29, 37, 33, 35 minutes.
[Edited by - joec32033 on 07-06-2006 12:10 PM]