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Isiah failing the roster?
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McK1
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7/5/2006  9:54 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

Crawford is a good shooter, when used properly; and using him as a pg is not using him properly, imo.

Craw in Chicago had the ball making plays. Yr 1 here he'd get the ball out on the wing for iso's. Methinks thats how he liked it.

seems Brown went from trying to appease him to saying fudge it you suck at running a team - you're going to learn the 2.
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djsunyc
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7/5/2006  9:56 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by McK1:

who is sitting by the phone?

July 2005 Raja Bell and Jerome James happen to be home the same night

Raja Bell was never known as a shooter. He was a defensive player with a avg. shot.

He is benefitting from the D'antoni effect. Just like Q.

defensive player? what's that?
joec32033
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7/5/2006  10:06 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Killa4luv:

Crawford is a good shooter, when used properly; and using him as a pg is not using him properly, imo.

Craw in Chicago had the ball making plays. Yr 1 here he'd get the ball out on the wing for iso's. Methinks thats how he liked it.

seems Brown went from trying to appease him to saying fudge it you suck at running a team - you're going to learn the 2.

IMO, and this sounds twisted but I believe it to be the truth, Craw's talents are best fit at the 2 guard, but by playing him at the point it puts him and the team in the best position to succeed.

Mainly, his game is scoring, but by having him initiate the offense and pass the ball it limits his 3 pt chucks.
Also putting him at the point usually will cause mismatches because of his height and as a defender he should be guarding someone who is not looking to score the ball(ie 90% of the PG's in the league).
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islesfan
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7/5/2006  10:10 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by McK1:

who is sitting by the phone?

July 2005 Raja Bell and Jerome James happen to be home the same night

Raja Bell was never known as a shooter. He was a defensive player with a avg. shot.

He is benefitting from the D'antoni effect. Just like Q.

And just like Marb... oh wait, nevermind. I guess even top coaches like D'Antoni can't get selfish players to buy into a system. That would kind of effect wins and losses wouldn't it? But that's probably just D'Antoni's fault and his fault alone.

[Edited by - islesfan on 07-05-2006 10:12 PM]
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
joec32033
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7/5/2006  10:12 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by McK1:

who is sitting by the phone?

July 2005 Raja Bell and Jerome James happen to be home the same night

Raja Bell was never known as a shooter. He was a defensive player with a avg. shot.

He is benefitting from the D'antoni effect. Just like Q.

And just like Marb... oh wait, nevermind.

~You can't run from who you are.~
martin
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7/5/2006  10:14 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Killa4luv:

Crawford is a good shooter, when used properly; and using him as a pg is not using him properly, imo.

Craw in Chicago had the ball making plays. Yr 1 here he'd get the ball out on the wing for iso's. Methinks thats how he liked it.

seems Brown went from trying to appease him to saying fudge it you suck at running a team - you're going to learn the 2.

IMO, and this sounds twisted but I believe it to be the truth, Craw's talents are best fit at the 2 guard, but by playing him at the point it puts him and the team in the best position to succeed.

Mainly, his game is scoring, but by having him initiate the offense and pass the ball it limits his 3 pt chucks.
Also putting him at the point usually will cause mismatches because of his height and as a defender he should be guarding someone who is not looking to score the ball(ie 90% of the PG's in the league).

I thought that LB didn't like Craw's PG skill and limited him to SG early on so that he could really really slowly show/teach him how to play the point. Plus, he wanted Craw to first get all of the bad habits out of him.
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joec32033
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7/5/2006  10:22 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Killa4luv:

Crawford is a good shooter, when used properly; and using him as a pg is not using him properly, imo.

Craw in Chicago had the ball making plays. Yr 1 here he'd get the ball out on the wing for iso's. Methinks thats how he liked it.

seems Brown went from trying to appease him to saying fudge it you suck at running a team - you're going to learn the 2.

IMO, and this sounds twisted but I believe it to be the truth, Craw's talents are best fit at the 2 guard, but by playing him at the point it puts him and the team in the best position to succeed.

Mainly, his game is scoring, but by having him initiate the offense and pass the ball it limits his 3 pt chucks.
Also putting him at the point usually will cause mismatches because of his height and as a defender he should be guarding someone who is not looking to score the ball(ie 90% of the PG's in the league).

I thought that LB didn't like Craw's PG skill and limited him to SG early on so that he could really really slowly show/teach him how to play the point. Plus, he wanted Craw to first get all of the bad habits out of him.

I believed that a while ag0 (I said LB was teaching Steph, but molding Crawford). Craw to me is the exact definition of a swing player. I don't think he'll ever be an All-star PG-I think his career there will actually be a little helter skelter until he physically starts to slow down a litte (See Jason WIlliams in Miami as compared to Sacto).
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nixluva
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7/5/2006  10:41 PM
While it would be great to have a pure shooter on the team, its not a prerequisite to winning. We have enough shooting to be potent on offense. Isiah has done the right things in the last two drafts and I believe that he will be vindicated this year on a few of his offseason moves. Just having guys do what they've always been able to do instead of underachieving as they pretty much all did last year. I don't expect that fiasco to happen again now that Brown is out of here.

Its funny how Isiah gets killed for getting too many scorers and not enough Role players and defenders, so when he finally does add some guys who fill needed roles we still have guys find a way to knock him. By the way he still has time to add a player or make a deal so let's just wait and see what he decides to do.
joec32033
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7/5/2006  10:59 PM
Posted by nixluva:

While it would be great to have a pure shooter on the team, its not a prerequisite to winning. We have enough shooting to be potent on offense. Isiah has done the right things in the last two drafts and I believe that he will be vindicated this year on a few of his offseason moves. Just having guys do what they've always been able to do instead of underachieving as they pretty much all did last year. I don't expect that fiasco to happen again now that Brown is out of here.

Its funny how Isiah gets killed for getting too many scorers and not enough Role players and defenders, so when he finally does add some guys who fill needed roles we still have guys find a way to knock him. By the way he still has time to add a player or make a deal so let's just wait and see what he decides to do.

Bro' going out and signing a guy like Raja Bell or Mike Finley at this stage of his career is one thing. Drafting them is another.

Also your team's current situation has to play a part. When you are a SA or PHX or Miami and are a solid role player away, go ahead and draft for that. Reach if you think a guy can play a role and help this season.

In the Knicks case, drafting role players is not good business, IMO. Especially in this case when a talent that is projected top 10 falls to 20. It's just bad business, man, IMO.
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JohnWallace44
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7/5/2006  11:04 PM
All Q is supposed to do is drain 3's. So was Tim Thomas. I think Marty is a good shooter as well.

Thomas is bringing them in, but they aren't preforming. On the other hand a guy like Allen or Korver wouldn't hurt this team.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
djsunyc
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7/5/2006  11:39 PM
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Stevo718
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7/6/2006  12:19 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by franco12:

what shooters are available? I don't want to give isiah a pass, but I think he has done the best he could.

as recently as this draft Maurice Ager was there at 20 and fell to 28 in a draft where the 21& 27 were sold.

Its not a question of availability but moreso a question of what Isiah is targetting.

You have a valid point, Thomas has always favored scorers over pure shooters. He isn't alone, Jordan has said on a number of occasions that pure shooters are overrated. I know he made reference to Allan Houston a couple of times and RIP. Something about pure shooters needing to have perfect situations usually in order to really benefit teams. His belief was that a pure shooter couldn't be your main option. I never really understood that thought pattern but I do remember Thomas saying as much about Stoudamire and McGrady. I can't believe the Knicks still don't have a reliable outside threat. I can't believe that your 2nd year PF/C will still be your most reliable outside threat.

Most of those shots Frye was making was because he was wide open. Once people starting manning up on him he wasn't as effective.

Q had a bad year, even though he lad a low percentage I would still consider him an outside threat.

Crawford also shoots a low percentage but if he developed a short jumper and was more selective with shots he would definitely be a top 10 threat. Crawford has more talent than Rip Hamilton.

I don't think we are as bad as most people think. I mean we have 5 players that have scored over 40 points in a game in their career.
Solace
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7/6/2006  12:23 AM
Posted by Stevo718:

I don't think we are as bad as most people think. I mean we have 5 players that have scored over 40 points in a game in their career.

... which would be great if only we could convince the league to let us play with three basketballs on each possession.

The problem is there's a LOT of duplication. Our best shooter is Marbury. However, I do think we need a shooting guard or small forward that can hit outside shots with higher than a 40% accuracy. It will become an issue, when teams play zone against us. We have no zone busters.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Stevo718
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7/6/2006  1:15 AM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by Stevo718:

I don't think we are as bad as most people think. I mean we have 5 players that have scored over 40 points in a game in their career.

... which would be great if only we could convince the league to let us play with three basketballs on each possession.

The problem is there's a LOT of duplication. Our best shooter is Marbury. However, I do think we need a shooting guard or small forward that can hit outside shots with higher than a 40% accuracy. It will become an issue, when teams play zone against us. We have no zone busters.

Name me 10 zone busters in the NBA, then name another 10. Can you?
Anji
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7/6/2006  1:15 AM
JC Raw is a shooter and Nate is a shooter with great three point %'s. Frye showed he can shoot and Lee has a set shot too. Q Rich was the three point champ a season ago, I don't like him but he can't be as bad as he was last season...........

Who are Shaqs and wades shooters??? Who are dirks shooters??? Who are kidds shooters???? Where are AI shooters??? Who is Brands shooters???? YOu guys make it seem like if you don't have three guys who are "Shooters" (IE white guys who go 3-3 from 3 is what comes to my mind) that is the only way to build a team???

Let's see what the Knicks have, can that be a plan???? It might better then signing Pitsnoggle(what ever) or drafting Novak.

[Edited by - Anji on 07-06-2006 01:32 AM]
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McK1
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7/6/2006  1:23 AM
Posted by Anji:


Who are Shaqs and wades shooters??? Who are dirks shooters??? Who are kidds shooters???? Where are AI shooters??? Who is Brands shooters????

check JWill Payton and Poseys numbers from distance last year

Dirk is the shooter however check Terry and KVH's numbers

Kidd has no shooters but his wings are Carter and RJ which represents a dynamic 100 levels above what 95% of the teams attack with

[Edited by - McK1 on 07-06-2006 01:24 AM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Anji
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7/6/2006  1:31 AM
Compare those players numbers last season to the players I mentioned last season. I want players who can shoot, not jump shots with legs. We need structure, not badplayers who can shot. We have Players who can shoot.

[Edited by - Anji on 07-06-2006 01:34 AM]
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Killa4luv
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7/6/2006  1:32 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by McK1:

who is sitting by the phone?

July 2005 Raja Bell and Jerome James happen to be home the same night

Raja Bell was never known as a shooter. He was a defensive player with a avg. shot.

He is benefitting from the D'antoni effect. Just like Q.

And just like Marb... oh wait, nevermind. I guess even top coaches like D'Antoni can't get selfish players to buy into a system. That would kind of effect wins and losses wouldn't it? But that's probably just D'Antoni's fault and his fault alone.

[Edited by - islesfan on 07-05-2006 10:12 PM]
If you are taking a jab at Steph with that, he played 10 games for him. Oh yeah, my bad, you had no point. Carry on...
rvhoss
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7/6/2006  6:19 AM
qrich, crawford and marbury pre marbury are shooters.
that's all I have to say, I mean, how many "shooters" do we need again?
i didn't read the posts because most were from nyk4bandwagononly and mck1helluvacelticfan and djsunofagunwithnothingtosayever.

who are we comparing to for shooters?

Qrich, crawford and marbury all have high field goal percentages and can hit the open look...frye can hit the open look as well...what exactly are you talking about?
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martin
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7/6/2006  8:32 AM
Posted by rvhoss:

qrich, crawford and marbury pre marbury are shooters.
that's all I have to say, I mean, how many "shooters" do we need again?
i didn't read the posts because most were from nyk4bandwagononly and mck1helluvacelticfan and djsunofagunwithnothingtosayever.

who are we comparing to for shooters?

Qrich, crawford and marbury all have high field goal percentages and can hit the open look...frye can hit the open look as well...what exactly are you talking about?

RV, you have a lot of volume these days but generally you shoot yourself in the foot half the time and otherwise speak with authority, but really it has no basis.

QRICH: 35% field goal percent last year.
Jamal: 41% field goal percent last year.
Marbury: 31% field goal percent from 3PT land.

I know you are in Switzerland these days but did you see any of the games this past year? Research anything or just post?
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