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TMS
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6/29/2006  4:20 PM
as long as our overall team defense improves & Balkman & Collins grow to become effective role players for this team, i'm happy.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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BRIGGS
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6/29/2006  4:24 PM
Posted by nixluva:

[quote]Posted by BRIGGS:

Hassan Adams better on ball defender way better athlete way better offensive player better passer way better physical build just as good rebounder just plain better player with more talent both ways no question about it

pick 54 nets

Says you and when was the last time YOU drafted a player like TMac? Come on. I trust Isiah's eye for talent over anyone in here. Just think this guy isn't a scorer, yet he was MVP of the NIT and viewed as the MVP of the Orlando predraft camp. SO this means he busts his butt and is hungry. I want a player like that who doesn't care about scoring, but doing all the little things a team needs to help it win.

Isiah explained why he did the pick early and he still got Mardy Collins who he also targeted. These picks show that he's not some guy who just looks for talent and upside. That makes TWO DRAFTS in a row where he's used sound judgement on NBA ready players who fill team needs. Now we're even closer to having a complete team. If he can get a solid Starting SF and a shotblocker/rebounder we'll have a complete squad that makes sense at every position. Face it despite all the rhetoric to the contrary Isiah is building a nice team. We're gonna surprise people over the next 2 years. You'll see.


you can do a lot with high lottery picks. How about 35mm on Jerome James? How about 40mm on Mo Taylor Malik Rose ad nauseum. where is they eye for talent there? why are we 2 and 7 in the lottery after spending 500mm $ on 21 players? what was wrong with trading down or using pick 29 on player like this? its the exact reason why we dont have ty thomas this morning they dont negotiate or understand value/circumstances and throw money around like it was paper sloppy management -==bad team
RIP Crushalot😞
fishmike
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6/29/2006  4:25 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by martin:
Posted by misterearl:

and please identify who were the better defenders available?

better OPTIONS not better defenders available.
if we really are rebuilding and especially with a froncourt of Curry/Frye with Lee/JB as your role players wouldnt you feel a little better with a bonafide pass first pg feeding them the ball? Ever watch UConn? Marcus makes it easy for every guy on that team to get their shot off. He sees the whole floor. Is he Kidd/Nash? At the college level YES. At the pro probably not but this group desperatly needs someone that can initiate the offense. That doesnt mean dribbling without turnovers and handing the ball to one of our 40 guys that pounds it.

We have a LOT of guys that can finish, we dont have one guy that can run a 5 man offense. Marcus could have and every analyst said he was a lottery pick.

For god sakes RB's own COACH said he didnt see him as an NBA player, but "he got a chance, and now he's got to go out and prove it." His own coach.

Wow

The really unfair part is for this kid, who probably worked super hard to hopefully get a camp invite (must less first round) and now he's forever the guy that the Knicks picked instead of Marcus Williams.

He had a couple great NIT games and a solid Orlando camp against guys that arent NBA players, and never will be.


Martin, even if Williams is the best player available, which I believe is highly debateable, haven't so many pointed out that Isiah should not amass so much talent, but instead players who fit? And the minute he does that, he's decried.

No, instead we should take a redundant player, with a poorer personal history than anyone on this team with the possible exception of Q2.

oohah

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
gunsnewing
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6/29/2006  4:26 PM
what about the people who scream for a star player/leader?
crzymdups
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6/29/2006  4:28 PM
Perhaps the reason Isiah knew or thought that Phoenix was interested in Balkman was precisely BECAUSE he tried to buy their first round pick, and he felt he couldn't risk not taking him at 20 when it became clear PHX had no interest in selling him the pick.

He's a good drafter, he took the guy he wanted where he wanted to take him. There are guys like Marcus Williams who drop and do extremely well and there are guys like Marcus Williams who drop and do poorly. In a draft like this with few clear cut stand-out players, it makes sense to draft from need. Everyone who explains away Marcus dropping that low saying teams were drafting by need, well, we were drafting by need as well.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06-29-2006 4:29 PM]
¿ △ ?
NYKBocker
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6/29/2006  4:31 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by nixluva:

[quote]Posted by BRIGGS:

Hassan Adams better on ball defender way better athlete way better offensive player better passer way better physical build just as good rebounder just plain better player with more talent both ways no question about it

pick 54 nets

Says you and when was the last time YOU drafted a player like TMac? Come on. I trust Isiah's eye for talent over anyone in here. Just think this guy isn't a scorer, yet he was MVP of the NIT and viewed as the MVP of the Orlando predraft camp. SO this means he busts his butt and is hungry. I want a player like that who doesn't care about scoring, but doing all the little things a team needs to help it win.

Isiah explained why he did the pick early and he still got Mardy Collins who he also targeted. These picks show that he's not some guy who just looks for talent and upside. That makes TWO DRAFTS in a row where he's used sound judgement on NBA ready players who fill team needs. Now we're even closer to having a complete team. If he can get a solid Starting SF and a shotblocker/rebounder we'll have a complete squad that makes sense at every position. Face it despite all the rhetoric to the contrary Isiah is building a nice team. We're gonna surprise people over the next 2 years. You'll see.


you can do a lot with high lottery picks. How about 35mm on Jerome James? How about 40mm on Mo Taylor Malik Rose ad nauseum. where is they eye for talent there? why are we 2 and 7 in the lottery after spending 500mm $ on 21 players? what was wrong with trading down or using pick 29 on player like this? its the exact reason why we dont have ty thomas this morning they dont negotiate or understand value/circumstances and throw money around like it was paper sloppy management -==bad team


A good negotiator and deal maker Isiah is not. A great judge of talent he is. We can blast him all we want for his stoopid ways but his eye for young talent cannot be denied.
oohah
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6/29/2006  4:34 PM
if we really are rebuilding and especially with a froncourt of Curry/Frye with Lee/JB as your role players wouldnt you feel a little better with a bonafide pass first pg feeding them the ball? Ever watch UConn? Marcus makes it easy for every guy on that team to get their shot off. He sees the whole floor. Is he Kidd/Nash? At the college level YES. At the pro probably not but this group desperatly needs someone that can initiate the offense. That doesnt mean dribbling without turnovers and handing the ball to one of our 40 guys that pounds it.

We have a LOT of guys that can finish, we dont have one guy that can run a 5 man offense. Marcus could have and every analyst said he was a lottery pick.

For god sakes RB's own COACH said he didnt see him as an NBA player, but "he got a chance, and now he's got to go out and prove it." His own coach.

Wow

The really unfair part is for this kid, who probably worked super hard to hopefully get a camp invite (must less first round) and now he's forever the guy that the Knicks picked instead of Marcus Williams.

He had a couple great NIT games and a solid Orlando camp against guys that arent NBA players, and never will be.

Fishmike, you are the 3rd or 4th guy to pull the "have you seen him play?" card. Lets get real already. He was the 5th best player on his team. You could average 5+ assists if you had the excellent athletes of Uconn to throw it to. He is a very good college player, but that does not mean he is a good pro.

And I don't know where this star status at this level is being pulled from, he would not get any run with the current lineup. Face it. And he is not a pass first PG, he is a "pass only" PG, because that is where his game begins and ends.

Haven't you spoken so much about character and defense? Well this kid has proven himself to be a dumbass off the court, and on the court he could not keep Steve Kerr from going by him.

He is on the right team. All he has to do is pass there. Over here he would have to score and play defense, and he doesn't have much talent for that on this level.

Yeah, I've seen him play allright.

EDIT: I think Williams may be a decent backup PG. That is about it. And that isn't so terrible is it? He just isn't worth this uproar.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 06-29-2006 4:41 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
misterearl
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6/29/2006  4:36 PM
>>gunsnewing - what about the people who scream for a star player/leader?

Those people are automatically redirected to the "People Whe Expected Saer Sene to Be Selected at Ten Man Up" Thread

and then to the "Where Would Channing Frye, David Lee and Jackie Butler Be Slotted in The Most Traded Batch of First Rounders In Recent Memory" Thread

please hold



once a knick always a knick
BRIGGS
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6/29/2006  4:39 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

Perhaps the reason Isiah knew or thought that Phoenix was interested in Balkman was precisely BECAUSE he tried to buy their first round pick, and he felt he couldn't risk not taking him at 20 when it became clear PHX had no interest in selling him the pick.

He's a good drafter, he took the guy he wanted where he wanted to take him. There are guys like Marcus Williams who drop and do extremely well and there are guys like Marcus Williams who drop and do poorly. In a draft like this with few clear cut stand-out players, it makes sense to draft from need. Everyone who explains away Marcus dropping that low saying teams were drafting by need, well, we were drafting by need as well.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06-29-2006 4:29 PM]

Pheonix named the players they liked. The coach said straight out they didnt like guys who couldnt shoot because of the system they play. Name ONE 1 player on Phoenix who plays in the core who doesnt have a huge offensive arsenal? none.

there were better athletes on the board i mean what phase of his game looks like pheonix? its BS
RIP Crushalot😞
oohah
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6/29/2006  4:43 PM
Pheonix named the players they liked. The coach said straight out they didnt like guys who couldnt shoot because of the system they play. Name ONE 1 player on Phoenix who plays in the core who doesnt have a huge offensive arsenal? none.

Raja Bell
Kurt Thomas
Amare Stoudamire
Shawn Marion

None of these guys can be accused of having huge offensive arsenals.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
s3231
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6/29/2006  4:46 PM
Posted by oohah:
Pheonix named the players they liked. The coach said straight out they didnt like guys who couldnt shoot because of the system they play. Name ONE 1 player on Phoenix who plays in the core who doesnt have a huge offensive arsenal? none.

Raja Bell
Kurt Thomas
Amare Stoudamire
Shawn Marion

None of these guys can be accused of having huge offensive arsenals.

oohah

Dude, come on, you did not just put Amare Stoudemire and Shawn Marion on that list.

[Edited by - s3231 on 06-29-2006 4:46 PM]
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
crzymdups
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6/29/2006  4:47 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by crzymdups:

Perhaps the reason Isiah knew or thought that Phoenix was interested in Balkman was precisely BECAUSE he tried to buy their first round pick, and he felt he couldn't risk not taking him at 20 when it became clear PHX had no interest in selling him the pick.

He's a good drafter, he took the guy he wanted where he wanted to take him. There are guys like Marcus Williams who drop and do extremely well and there are guys like Marcus Williams who drop and do poorly. In a draft like this with few clear cut stand-out players, it makes sense to draft from need. Everyone who explains away Marcus dropping that low saying teams were drafting by need, well, we were drafting by need as well.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06-29-2006 4:29 PM]

Pheonix named the players they liked. The coach said straight out they didnt like guys who couldnt shoot because of the system they play. Name ONE 1 player on Phoenix who plays in the core who doesnt have a huge offensive arsenal? none.

there were better athletes on the board i mean what phase of his game looks like pheonix? its BS

phases they lack, like interior defense, rebounding. he can run the floor and handle the ball. perhaps they wouldn't have taken him and were only considering him.

I remember people made fun of Don Nelson for taking Latrel Sprewell in 1993 at 24th overall, while lauding the Knicks for making a heady selection of Hubert Davis. Sometimes the pundits are wrong and people who live and breath basketball know when they find something special.
¿ △ ?
Solace
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6/29/2006  4:48 PM
Posted by s3231:
Posted by oohah:
Pheonix named the players they liked. The coach said straight out they didnt like guys who couldnt shoot because of the system they play. Name ONE 1 player on Phoenix who plays in the core who doesnt have a huge offensive arsenal? none.

Raja Bell
Kurt Thomas
Amare Stoudamire
Shawn Marion

None of these guys can be accused of having huge offensive arsenals.

oohah

Dude, come on, you did not just put Amare Stoudemire and Shawn Marion on that list.

[Edited by - s3231 on 06-29-2006 4:46 PM]

I'm going to assume he was joking.

You were joking, right?
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
s3231
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6/29/2006  4:50 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by s3231:
Posted by oohah:
Pheonix named the players they liked. The coach said straight out they didnt like guys who couldnt shoot because of the system they play. Name ONE 1 player on Phoenix who plays in the core who doesnt have a huge offensive arsenal? none.

Raja Bell
Kurt Thomas
Amare Stoudamire
Shawn Marion

None of these guys can be accused of having huge offensive arsenals.

oohah

Dude, come on, you did not just put Amare Stoudemire and Shawn Marion on that list.

[Edited by - s3231 on 06-29-2006 4:46 PM]

I'm going to assume he was joking.

You were joking, right?

I hope he was
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
oohah
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6/29/2006  4:57 PM
Posted by s3231:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by s3231:
Posted by oohah:
Pheonix named the players they liked. The coach said straight out they didnt like guys who couldnt shoot because of the system they play. Name ONE 1 player on Phoenix who plays in the core who doesnt have a huge offensive arsenal? none.

Raja Bell
Kurt Thomas
Amare Stoudamire
Shawn Marion

None of these guys can be accused of having huge offensive arsenals.

oohah

Dude, come on, you did not just put Amare Stoudemire and Shawn Marion on that list.

[Edited by - s3231 on 06-29-2006 4:46 PM]

I'm going to assume he was joking.

You were joking, right?

I hope he was



No, I was not kidding. They don't have huge offensive repertoires. Marion is a decent shooter and he has a nice flip shot. He gets most of his offense off of transition plays and layup/dunk opportunities created by defensive imbalances or by scrapping. That is why Marion is most noted for rebounding and scoring with no plays run for him.

Amare Stoudamire get the bulk of his points by going over and through the other guys. He has an okay shot. He reportedly added some polish to his offensive game over the summer, but he could not play this year so who knows?

Solace, s32332, let me ask you this: Shaq has scored a lot of points, does he have a huge offensive arsenal?

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Solace
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6/29/2006  5:00 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by s3231:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by s3231:
Posted by oohah:
Pheonix named the players they liked. The coach said straight out they didnt like guys who couldnt shoot because of the system they play. Name ONE 1 player on Phoenix who plays in the core who doesnt have a huge offensive arsenal? none.

Raja Bell
Kurt Thomas
Amare Stoudamire
Shawn Marion

None of these guys can be accused of having huge offensive arsenals.

oohah

Dude, come on, you did not just put Amare Stoudemire and Shawn Marion on that list.

[Edited by - s3231 on 06-29-2006 4:46 PM]

I'm going to assume he was joking.

You were joking, right?

I hope he was



No, I was not kidding. They don't have huge offensive repertoires. Marion is a decent shooter and he has a nice flip shot. He gets most of his offense off of transition plays and layup/dunk opportunities created by defensive imbalances or by scrapping. That is why Marion is most noted for rebounding and scoring with no plays run for him.

Amare Stoudamire get the bulk of his points by going over and through the other guys. He has an okay shot. He reportedly added some polish to his offensive game over the summer, but he could not play this year so who knows?

Solace, s32332, let me ask you this: Shaq has scored a lot of points, does he have a huge offensive arsenal?

oohah

I think you're taking "huge offensive arsenal" to mean "creative scorer", which I don't think was the intent of the statement. I think Marion, Shaq and Amare are very good scorers who can do a lot of things. Maybe not the most creative things, but they can certainly put up a lot of points.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
BRIGGS
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6/29/2006  5:02 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by crzymdups:

Perhaps the reason Isiah knew or thought that Phoenix was interested in Balkman was precisely BECAUSE he tried to buy their first round pick, and he felt he couldn't risk not taking him at 20 when it became clear PHX had no interest in selling him the pick.

He's a good drafter, he took the guy he wanted where he wanted to take him. There are guys like Marcus Williams who drop and do extremely well and there are guys like Marcus Williams who drop and do poorly. In a draft like this with few clear cut stand-out players, it makes sense to draft from need. Everyone who explains away Marcus dropping that low saying teams were drafting by need, well, we were drafting by need as well.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06-29-2006 4:29 PM]

Pheonix named the players they liked. The coach said straight out they didnt like guys who couldnt shoot because of the system they play. Name ONE 1 player on Phoenix who plays in the core who doesnt have a huge offensive arsenal? none.

there were better athletes on the board i mean what phase of his game looks like pheonix? its BS

phases they lack, like interior defense, rebounding. he can run the floor and handle the ball. perhaps they wouldn't have taken him and were only considering him.

I remember people made fun of Don Nelson for taking Latrel Sprewell in 1993 at 24th overall, while lauding the Knicks for making a heady selection of Hubert Davis. Sometimes the pundits are wrong and people who live and breath basketball know when they find something special.

I dont know if people make sht up or pull it out of their arse--latrell was nearly a 20 point scorer his senior year and was a lock first round pick -case closed. this kid is light years from latrell sprewell-- think trevor ariza a little shorter slightly bigger with 4/5 of trevors ups.
RIP Crushalot😞
misterearl
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6/29/2006  5:04 PM
Briggs - how many games have you watched Balkman play?
once a knick always a knick
BRIGGS
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6/29/2006  5:04 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by s3231:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by s3231:
Posted by oohah:

[quote] Pheonix named the players they liked. The coach said straight out they didnt like guys who couldnt shoot because of the system they play. Name ONE 1 player on Phoenix who plays in the core who doesnt have a huge offensive arsenal? none.

Raja Bell
Kurt Thomas
Amare Stoudamire
Shawn Marion

None of these guys can be accused of having huge offensive arsenals.

oohah

Dude, come on, you did not just put Amare Stoudemire and Shawn Marion on that list.

[Edited by - s3231 on 06-29-2006 4:46 PM]

I'm going to assume he was joking.

You were joking, right?

I hope he was



No, I was not kidding. They don't have huge offensive repertoires. Marion is a decent shooter and he has a nice flip shot. He gets most of his offense off of transition plays and layup/dunk opportunities created by defensive imbalances or by scrapping. That is why Marion is most noted for rebounding and scoring with no plays run for him.

Amare Stoudamire get the bulk of his points by going over and through the other guys. He has an okay shot. He reportedly added some polish to his offensive game over the summer, but he could not play this year so who knows?

Solace, s32332, let me ask you this: Shaq has scored a lot of points, does he have a huge offensive arsenal?

oohah

were to the point where someone is arguing whther shaq has a huge offensive game. please STFU its moronic

RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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6/29/2006  5:10 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Briggs - how many games have you watched Balkman play?


i would estimate I have seen him play 5-7 times. I watched a game against Pittsburgh this year where he looked very small ineffective and remember him getting bipped by levon kendall trying to dunk it.
RIP Crushalot😞
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