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BRIGGS wanted to send Lee to CHI for lottery protection this year.
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rvhoss
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6/28/2006  2:03 PM
I'd rather have curry. JMHO.
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crzymdups
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6/28/2006  2:04 PM
If Larry Brown had tried to win with this roster, the lotto protection on the pick would have been a non-issue. Clearly there was a power struggle behind the scenes and in the media all season and it's pretty likely that Brown was trynig to make the Curry trade look worse to usher Isiah out and get roster control. Brown had to think he had the upper hand, with the longer contract over Thomas and mythic stature. Little did Brown know - Dolan is insane.
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martin
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6/28/2006  2:06 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

If Larry Brown had tried to win with this roster, the lotto protection on the pick would have been a non-issue. Clearly there was a power struggle behind the scenes and in the media all season and it's pretty likely that Brown was trynig to make the Curry trade look worse to usher Isiah out and get roster control. Brown had to think he had the upper hand, with the longer contract over Thomas and mythic stature. Little did Brown know - Dolan is insane.

I agree with this entirely.
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djsunyc
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6/28/2006  2:07 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

If Larry Brown had tried to win with this roster, the lotto protection on the pick would have been a non-issue. Clearly there was a power struggle behind the scenes and in the media all season and it's pretty likely that Brown was trynig to make the Curry trade look worse to usher Isiah out and get roster control. Brown had to think he had the upper hand, with the longer contract over Thomas and mythic stature. Little did Brown know - Dolan is insane.

again, this has NOTHING to do with lb.

like martin said, imagine in 1997, the spurs traded their #1 pick away but had a top 3 protection. they always won 45+ games. but david robinson got hurt and they ended up with the #1 pick which turned into tim duncan. what if they didn't protect that pick?

and we're a team that didn't break 39 wins in a long long time. so an injury making a major impact was a possibility. so why no protection? it's careless REGARDLESS of whether we won 45 games or 23 games.

is it magnified now? hell yeah. but the people that said it was careless back in november are the same ones saying it now.
Killa4luv
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6/28/2006  2:10 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

i'll say it again - there is no proof anywhere that Chicago would have accepted David Lee in order to protect the picks. Paxson, in fact has said he would not have done the trade with protection.

this is complete speculation.

and yet there is proof that LB wanted Steve Francis and it is no surprise that they draw conclusions irrespective of the facts.
crzymdups
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6/28/2006  2:12 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by crzymdups:

If Larry Brown had tried to win with this roster, the lotto protection on the pick would have been a non-issue. Clearly there was a power struggle behind the scenes and in the media all season and it's pretty likely that Brown was trynig to make the Curry trade look worse to usher Isiah out and get roster control. Brown had to think he had the upper hand, with the longer contract over Thomas and mythic stature. Little did Brown know - Dolan is insane.

again, this has NOTHING to do with lb.

like martin said, imagine in 1997, the spurs traded their #1 pick away but had a top 3 protection. they always won 45+ games. but david robinson got hurt and they ended up with the #1 pick which turned into tim duncan. what if they didn't protect that pick?

and we're a team that didn't break 39 wins in a long long time. so an injury making a major impact was a possibility. so why no protection? it's careless REGARDLESS of whether we won 45 games or 23 games.

is it magnified now? hell yeah. but the people that said it was careless back in november are the same ones saying it now.

It was a gamble, no doubt and a very very risky one. So, yes, a careless, risky move.

All I'm saying is that Brown knew this. Knew Zeke would be crucified if the Knicks gave up the number one pick. And when the Thomas/Marbury/Brown feud heated up, Brown had to realize that he had a trump card on Isiah - losing the pick would always be looked at as Isiah's fault. The way the season played out has a lot to do with Brown vs Isiah, roster control, etc. And you better believe Brown knew that every loss meant that Curry trade looked doubly worse.

You can call it speculation, but it's no more speculation than saying that any of us actually knows if Lee was on the table in lieu of pick protection.
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JesseDark
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6/28/2006  2:14 PM
Posted by nixluva:

This is stupid. We got Curry who I still think is better than any Center in this draft and Lee is a solid player who can fill our needs off the bench. The Lottery protection shouldn't have even been a huge issue if not for Larry Brown not coaching to win. All this 20/20 crap is based on the fact that we finished WELL below the # of wins we should have had. There's no way we should have ended up with the #2 pick. Most of that I blame on Larry.

Could not agree more with your assesment. You too crzymdups.
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Anji
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6/28/2006  2:15 PM
Curry has all the tools to make that trade an nonissue. So let's see if curry does or doesn't, but creaming over the second pick which shouldn't have been (Larry Dildo), has nothing to do with Curry.
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martin
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6/28/2006  2:15 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by crzymdups:

i'll say it again - there is no proof anywhere that Chicago would have accepted David Lee in order to protect the picks. Paxson, in fact has said he would not have done the trade with protection.

this is complete speculation.

and yet there is proof that LB wanted Steve Francis and it is no surprise that they draw conclusions irrespective of the facts.

there is also proof that LB asks for players that shouldn't be traded for and asks for players to be traded that shouldn't be traded. GMs have to turn their brain on, just not say OK.

Hey, it's reasonable that asking for Oakly is a dumb f'ing idea, you agreed with that, right? You don't think Francis falls into that same category?
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crzymdups
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6/28/2006  2:18 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by crzymdups:

i'll say it again - there is no proof anywhere that Chicago would have accepted David Lee in order to protect the picks. Paxson, in fact has said he would not have done the trade with protection.

this is complete speculation.

and yet there is proof that LB wanted Steve Francis and it is no surprise that they draw conclusions irrespective of the facts.

there is also proof that LB asks for players that shouldn't be traded for and asks for players to be traded that shouldn't be traded. GMs have to turn their brain on, just not say OK.

Hey, it's reasonable that asking for Oakly is a dumb f'ing idea, you agreed with that, right? You don't think Francis falls into that same category?

I agree with this. I was furious on the Francis trade day. I think Isiah thought he was getting an asset for the summer and I do believe Brown put him on a list. He may have been far down the list, but I believe he was on it. But the Francis trade was idiotic. I think the Francis trade must have led to the Memphis meeting that happened about a week or so after the trade.
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BRIGGS
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6/28/2006  2:18 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by crzymdups:

i'll say it again - there is no proof anywhere that Chicago would have accepted David Lee in order to protect the picks. Paxson, in fact has said he would not have done the trade with protection.

this is complete speculation.

and yet there is proof that LB wanted Steve Francis and it is no surprise that they draw conclusions irrespective of the facts.

whon is they guy who makes the trades? who is the guy who is responsible? if they didnt like what LB was doing at game 28 why were they willing to spend that much money on francis and jalen if they WERENT happy with LB at that point? How about NO Larry we are not doing that-----thats LBs boss and Jimmy D is the owner dont blame it on LB its their FINAL decision
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martin
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6/28/2006  2:19 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by crzymdups:

If Larry Brown had tried to win with this roster, the lotto protection on the pick would have been a non-issue. Clearly there was a power struggle behind the scenes and in the media all season and it's pretty likely that Brown was trynig to make the Curry trade look worse to usher Isiah out and get roster control. Brown had to think he had the upper hand, with the longer contract over Thomas and mythic stature. Little did Brown know - Dolan is insane.

again, this has NOTHING to do with lb.

like martin said, imagine in 1997, the spurs traded their #1 pick away but had a top 3 protection. they always won 45+ games. but david robinson got hurt and they ended up with the #1 pick which turned into tim duncan. what if they didn't protect that pick?

and we're a team that didn't break 39 wins in a long long time. so an injury making a major impact was a possibility. so why no protection? it's careless REGARDLESS of whether we won 45 games or 23 games.

is it magnified now? hell yeah. but the people that said it was careless back in november are the same ones saying it now.

It was a gamble, no doubt and a very very risky one. So, yes, a careless, risky move.

All I'm saying is that Brown knew this. Knew Zeke would be crucified if the Knicks gave up the number one pick. And when the Thomas/Marbury/Brown feud heated up, Brown had to realize that he had a trump card on Isiah - losing the pick would always be looked at as Isiah's fault. The way the season played out has a lot to do with Brown vs Isiah, roster control, etc. And you better believe Brown knew that every loss meant that Curry trade looked doubly worse.

You can call it speculation, but it's no more speculation than saying that any of us actually knows if Lee was on the table in lieu of pick protection.

I agree with both of you and will up the ante.... I speculate that LB only asked for Francis for spite. Knew he was going to get the boot and added that to Dolan's pile.
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BasketballJones
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6/28/2006  2:21 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by crzymdups:

If Larry Brown had tried to win with this roster, the lotto protection on the pick would have been a non-issue. Clearly there was a power struggle behind the scenes and in the media all season and it's pretty likely that Brown was trynig to make the Curry trade look worse to usher Isiah out and get roster control. Brown had to think he had the upper hand, with the longer contract over Thomas and mythic stature. Little did Brown know - Dolan is insane.

again, this has NOTHING to do with lb.

like martin said, imagine in 1997, the spurs traded their #1 pick away but had a top 3 protection. they always won 45+ games. but david robinson got hurt and they ended up with the #1 pick which turned into tim duncan. what if they didn't protect that pick?

and we're a team that didn't break 39 wins in a long long time. so an injury making a major impact was a possibility. so why no protection? it's careless REGARDLESS of whether we won 45 games or 23 games.

is it magnified now? hell yeah. but the people that said it was careless back in november are the same ones saying it now.

It was a gamble, no doubt and a very very risky one. So, yes, a careless, risky move.

All I'm saying is that Brown knew this. Knew Zeke would be crucified if the Knicks gave up the number one pick. And when the Thomas/Marbury/Brown feud heated up, Brown had to realize that he had a trump card on Isiah - losing the pick would always be looked at as Isiah's fault. The way the season played out has a lot to do with Brown vs Isiah, roster control, etc. And you better believe Brown knew that every loss meant that Curry trade looked doubly worse.

You can call it speculation, but it's no more speculation than saying that any of us actually knows if Lee was on the table in lieu of pick protection.

I agree with both of you and will up the ante.... I speculate that LB only asked for Francis for spite. Knew he was going to get the boot and added that to Dolan's pile.

Okay, we're back to Larry after all

Let's see - IF Larry was going to get fired, why would Dolan/Isiah do this trade FOR Larry? Why do a trade requested by a guy you're going to fire?
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BasketballJones
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6/28/2006  2:22 PM
Can we change the name of the site to UltimateLarryBrown.com?
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BRIGGS
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6/28/2006  2:23 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by crzymdups:

If Larry Brown had tried to win with this roster, the lotto protection on the pick would have been a non-issue. Clearly there was a power struggle behind the scenes and in the media all season and it's pretty likely that Brown was trynig to make the Curry trade look worse to usher Isiah out and get roster control. Brown had to think he had the upper hand, with the longer contract over Thomas and mythic stature. Little did Brown know - Dolan is insane.

again, this has NOTHING to do with lb.

like martin said, imagine in 1997, the spurs traded their #1 pick away but had a top 3 protection. they always won 45+ games. but david robinson got hurt and they ended up with the #1 pick which turned into tim duncan. what if they didn't protect that pick?

and we're a team that didn't break 39 wins in a long long time. so an injury making a major impact was a possibility. so why no protection? it's careless REGARDLESS of whether we won 45 games or 23 games.

is it magnified now? hell yeah. but the people that said it was careless back in november are the same ones saying it now.

It was a gamble, no doubt and a very very risky one. So, yes, a careless, risky move.

All I'm saying is that Brown knew this. Knew Zeke would be crucified if the Knicks gave up the number one pick. And when the Thomas/Marbury/Brown feud heated up, Brown had to realize that he had a trump card on Isiah - losing the pick would always be looked at as Isiah's fault. The way the season played out has a lot to do with Brown vs Isiah, roster control, etc. And you better believe Brown knew that every loss meant that Curry trade looked doubly worse.

You can call it speculation, but it's no more speculation than saying that any of us actually knows if Lee was on the table in lieu of pick protection.

I agree with both of you and will up the ante.... I speculate that LB only asked for Francis for spite. Knew he was going to get the boot and added that to Dolan's pile.

Like I said who CARES what LB asked for--its the GMs and owner final decision whether to commit the $$$ there is NO other explanation -the owner and GM take responsibility there--thats what management is.
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martin
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6/28/2006  2:26 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:

Can we change the name of the site to UltimateLarryBrown.com?

Andrew and I are thinking UltimateBrooklynTeam.com
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crzymdups
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6/28/2006  2:49 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

Like I said who CARES what LB asked for--its the GMs and owner final decision whether to commit the $$$ there is NO other explanation -the owner and GM take responsibility there--thats what management is.

that's valid. I do think Isiah was trying to work with Brown up to a certain point. at the end of the day, he's responsible for all the moves though. Dolan having him coach next season could almost be punishment - you better believe it isn't going to be fun for Isiah to answer NY media questions EVERY night. And if Zeke fails, his reputation is ruined and his career is over.

The onus has been put in the right place now.

I happen to think Isiah will do a good job and will be able to have this roster play a more suitable style and I think guys like Marbury and Curry will be out to prove something. But I could be insane.

also, I look forward to a basketball season where the right players are on the floor, players are being asked to play to their strengths, no LB doubletalk, innuendo and backstabbing and maybe a little zone defense and other aspects of the modern game. I think it will be a lot more fun. whether it's enough to let Zeke live another day remains to be seen.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06-28-2006 2:51 PM]
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BasketballJones
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6/28/2006  2:52 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by BRIGGS:

Like I said who CARES what LB asked for--its the GMs and owner final decision whether to commit the $$$ there is NO other explanation -the owner and GM take responsibility there--thats what management is.

that's valid. I do think Isiah was trying to work with Brown up to a certain point. at the end of the day, he's responsible for all the moves though. Dolan having him coach next season could almost be punishment - you better believe it isn't going to be fun for Isiah to answer NY media questions EVERY night. And if Zeke fails, his reputation is ruined and his career is over.

The onus has been put in the right place now.

I happen to think Isiah will do a good job and will be able to have this roster play a more suitable style and I think guys like Marbury and Curry will be out to prove something. But I could be insane.

I think it's possible things turn out okay - I think guys like Marbury and Curry will want to step up for Isiah, and that could make a big difference.
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nyk4ever
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6/28/2006  2:53 PM
I'll be the first person doing cartwheels if Isiah gets these guys to play. And when I say "play" I mean on both sides of the court, I want defense brought back to the Knicks, if this isn't done then I'll know this team isn't going anywhere becuase you can't win without defense.
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Allanfan20
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6/28/2006  2:56 PM
This is really pathetic. Can we have a good thread nowadays w/o Larry Brown being brought up? It's getting quite tiring so I am going to go right back to Curry and hope people follow:

It doesn't matter if people know or don't know if Isiah could have offered Lee. The point is that Isiah got himself played big time by giving up, potentially, 2 top 3 picks, b/c we could be that bad next year too! Is Eddie Curry better than Greg Oden?? It's next year where Isiah truely got hustled, b/c of his poor negotiating skills. Has nothing to do with the media reports. Isiah fell in love with a player who was famous for always being lazy, overweight and unmotivated (And yes, he has the skill set and agility to be an amazing center) and gave up A LOT, and not just the 2 picks. The expiring contract of TT (Who I hated, but I believe he helped Phoenix big time, regardless) and Sweetney who did a nice job making a name for himself this past playoff.
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BRIGGS wanted to send Lee to CHI for lottery protection this year.
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