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lb wanted oakley (article)
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oohah
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6/27/2006  2:47 PM
there is a different dynamic as a person who is an assitant vs player. Just is. Would Oak be as effective telling his teammates to work harder when he is next to them running sprints, setting picks, grabbing rebounds, and going after loose balls as it would just yelling at them from the sidelines? As a player you have different cred.

Come on Martin. Adding Oak would be a god-awful idea....iunless it was for Malik Rose! Maybe I could get down with that!

oohah

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martin
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6/27/2006  2:53 PM
Posted by oohah:
there is a different dynamic as a person who is an assitant vs player. Just is. Would Oak be as effective telling his teammates to work harder when he is next to them running sprints, setting picks, grabbing rebounds, and going after loose balls as it would just yelling at them from the sidelines? As a player you have different cred.

Come on Martin. Adding Oak would be a god-awful idea....iunless it was for Malik Rose! Maybe I could get down with that!

oohah

why is it a god-awful idea?
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BigRedDog
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6/27/2006  2:53 PM
Give me a break Martin. what i wrote was nothing personal or bad , just obsrvations from reading many posts from fish. Agreed you need a mix of vets and young players but a 43 yr old? Are you going to argue this ridiculous view also?
fishmike 9/27/2024 11:00 PM Ug I hate this. The idea of Towns is great until you see what a pussy he is. Jules is a dog. DD was a flamethrower locked up cheap for 3 more years. First Leon move I hate
martin
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6/27/2006  3:02 PM
Posted by BigRedDog:

Give me a break Martin. what i wrote was nothing personal or bad , just obsrvations from reading many posts from fish. Agreed you need a mix of vets and young players but a 43 yr old? Are you going to argue this ridiculous view also?

I guess it would depend on the expectations of that 43 year old. Are we talking 20 MPG? 5 MPG? Just for the lockerroom aspect? $5M per year? Vet minimum?

At most Oak would get the vet minumum and would top out at 10 MPG (and that would be a stretch IMHO). But he could add INVALUABLE locker and practice habit experience IF he still has gas. If not, cut him. Also, Oak is kind of a bull and would smack around guys like Marbury, MoT, JJ if they don't perform, which sets a good example for Frye, Lee, Nate. Low risk here. Not like JJ for 5 years or Francis for his contract remainder.
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djsunyc
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6/27/2006  3:06 PM
i would assume with AD traded, lb was left with almost no veteran support on the roster. q was constantly hurt and jamal is friends with everyone. malik does carry some weight but obviously not enough. so bringing in oak would be a total 1/2 year rental at minimum $$$'s to knock some sense into the players. but this team was lost before then. the decision to remove brown was probably made prior to the memphis summit.
martin
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6/27/2006  3:09 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

i would assume with AD traded, lb was left with almost no veteran support on the roster. q was constantly hurt and jamal is friends with everyone. malik does carry some weight but obviously not enough. so bringing in oak would be a total 1/2 year rental at minimum $$$'s to knock some sense into the players. but this team was lost before then. the decision to remove brown was probably made prior to the memphis summit.

DJ, do you remember if the memphis summit was before or after the Rose/Francis trades? That would add some real intrigue to the whole debacle.
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knixphan
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6/27/2006  3:09 PM
I agree with Martin, IF LB really wanted Oak here, it would obviously be for the purpose of instilling some psychological fortitude and work ethic in this assembly of headstrong yoots. I'd do it for a season, just to have some help bringing a philosophy back - the same philosophy we all share regarding defense and team play... I seriously doubt Larry was imagining having Oak out there sweating much during games.
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oohah
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6/27/2006  3:11 PM

why is it a god-awful idea?

Because Oaley can't play anymore, and he would be taking a valuable roster spot from a player who can...unless he replaced Malik Rose.

All this leadership guys are talking about could just as easily be described as acting like a malcontent. Oakley is absolutely famous for calling out everyone--not just other players. He calls out COACHES and management just as much. I could see him very easily having a falling-out with LB about 5 minutes into their first practice.

Why is it a good idea?

oohah



Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
MS
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6/27/2006  3:13 PM
Anyone who questions the Oakly siging is just plain stupid, he was not going to take anytime away from our front court he would have been there strictly as an assistant to teach professionalism to this group of jerkoffs that Isiah brought in he would have had a positive influence on Frye and Lee and would have been able to teach them hands on.......so wht if he plays a couple of minutes a game......

After AD left the cancer became terminal, if anyone noticed we really went down the ****ter after that happened....you need guys like that on the bench.....

Isiah has made msg a playground league.....
martin
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6/27/2006  3:15 PM
Posted by oohah:

why is it a god-awful idea?

Because Oaley can't play anymore, and he would be taking a valuable roster spot from a player who can...unless he replaced Malik Rose.

All this leadership guys are talking about could just as easily be described as acting like a malcontent. Oakley is absolutely famous for calling out everyone--not just other players. He calls out COACHES and management just as much. I could see him very easily having a falling-out with LB about 5 minutes into their first practice.

Why is it a good idea?

oohah


why? see above and MS below your post.

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djsunyc
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6/27/2006  3:19 PM
Posted by martin:

DJ, do you remember if the memphis summit was before or after the Rose/Francis trades? That would add some real intrigue to the whole debacle.

it was march 1st, after the trade deadline.
Dolan vow: Safe for now

Isiah & Larry going nowhere

BY FRANK ISOLA
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

If Jim Dolan sticks to his word, Isiah Thomas will still be in charge Friday when the Knicks play at the Garden in front of what should be an angry and bitter crowd.

MEMPHIS — Isiah Thomas' job is safe for now. The same is true of Larry Brown. At least that is what Madison Square Garden chairman James Dolan told the players during a team meeting before yesterday's practice.

According to a player, Dolan assured the Knicks that he is not making any dramatic changes to the club's hierarchy.

"No one is getting fired," Dolan told the team. "We're in this thing together."

Several other players, including Malik Rose and newly acquired Steve Francis, would only say that Dolan's brief address was mostly positive.

"Mr. Dolan just kind of cleared the air," Rose said. "He said he's not giving up on us."

Dolan and his group of executives joined the Knicks in San Antonio on Monday and watched the team be embarrassed by the defending NBA champs. Thomas, the Knicks president, canceled a European scouting trip to accompany Dolan for the final two games of the trip.

Garden president Steve Mills and Garden vice chairman Hank Ratner are also on the trip that ends following tonight's game against the Grizzlies. The Knicks (15-41) are off to the worst start in franchise history and have dropped 20 of their last 22 games.

The Knicks' record and Dolan's presence here have led to speculation that Thomas could be in jeopardy of losing his job. However, Dolan planned the trip weeks in advance, and people in the organization are convinced that Dolan still has faith in his embattled team president.

Of course, Dolan never gave advance warning that he was going to fire Scott Layden or Lenny Wilkens, two moves that came out of nowhere. The Knicks dismissed a television report that cited unnamed sources claiming that Thomas would be fired within 24 hours.

It doesn't seem logical that Dolan would have Thomas travel to San Antonio and then to Memphis if he was set to cut him loose.

Dolan met with Brown following Monday's loss before boarding a private jet with Thomas, Mills and Ratner and flying here.

"He didn't fly me back," joked Brown, who traveled with the team. "Why would he want to fly with us?"

Brown had scheduled a film session and practice yesterday afternoon at FedEx Forum, but beforehand, Thomas asked to address the team. According to a player, Thomas told the team to give Brown a chance to coach them. His remarks came one day after Brown hinted that he has lost several veterans.

"Isiah asked if he could talk to the team," Brown said. "We were about to leave and Mr. Dolan happened to come by and Isiah asked Mr. Dolan if he would say something to the team."

Brown refused to divulge what Dolan told the team, saying only that "there was no negative stuff or anything like that."

"I think what both of them said was really good," Brown added. "He's been real supportive. Isiah's been real supportive. I don't know how they can be watching us play."

Dolan was not made available to reporters and it is unclear if he will talk today. In recent years, Dolan has met with the team's traveling beat reporters once during the preseason and again during the season, usually during a road trip in March.

This year, it will be difficult for Dolan to put on a brave face. The Knicks' payroll is a league-high $125 million and they are about to miss out on the playoffs for the fourth time in five seasons. The franchise hasn't won a playoff series since 2000.

When Dolan last addressed the state of the Knicks, he sounded encouraged about this season.

"The great thing about sports and one thing I really like about basketball is in the end, the truth comes out on the basketball floor," Dolan said in October. "We shall see. I'll be right there with you guys watching the truth on the floor."

So true.
oohah
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6/27/2006  3:27 PM
why? see above and MS below your post.

I read them both. They both don't make much sense. Oakley is not just past his prime, he is well past his playing days. If you cannot play at all you cannot lead as a player. JVG cut Oakley a few years ago quite quickly. If even JVG, who loves him, does not want him, you think he is a good addition to any team? Come on already!

What is your response to my saying that perhaps Oakley and LB would not have gotten along as famously as you seem to think is a given?

And when did Oakley become the standard for professionalism? Toughness, I can see.

When did Oakley become the guy who takes young players under his wing and develops them? Perhaps this is another elaborate fantasy that is being weaved?

Hey, I got an idea: Let's bring back Cousy...as a player! Sure he can't play much, but who cares about a couple of minutes here and there? It's not as if a few minutes can affect the outcome of a game right? And he'll teach these guy how to play a team concept in practice while they are running circles around him.

That is very close to the same thing as bringing in Oakley as a player. Both useless.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 06-27-2006 3:38 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
bigpimpin
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6/27/2006  4:47 PM
if the Knicks would have gotten Oakley, I can almost assure you that half this forum would have magically come up with reasons why it was a good trade.

I'd play Oakley at center before I played Jerome James. Maybe Brown wanted Oakley to kick somebody's azz. Who knows if the article is even true.

They are trying to put blame on Brown for Francis and Rose. But everybody here knows those are not Larry Brown-type players.

So whose zoomin who here?
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
oohah
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6/27/2006  4:51 PM
They are trying to put blame on Brown for Francis and Rose. But everybody here knows those are not Larry Brown-type players.

Larry Brown said it from his own mouth that he begged Dolan for at least one of those players. It was in the papers as a direct LB quote.

Dolan corroborated Larry's words yesterday on sportsdesk, and he added that Larry circumvented Isiah and went straight to him to speak about acquiring them.

Dolan, Isiah, and LB all said the same thing. How much more proof do you need that he wanted Rose and Francis?

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Killa4luv
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6/27/2006  5:00 PM
Posted by martin:

there is a different dynamic as a person who is an assitant vs player. Just is. Would Oak be as effective telling his teammates to work harder when he is next to them running sprints, setting picks, grabbing rebounds, and going after loose balls as it would just yelling at them from the sidelines? As a player you have different cred.
The problem is, Oak can't do any of that ****. He isn't gonna be along side anyone doing anything because he can't do it. He can still put on sweats and bark orders and get in players' faces tho. Oak as a player is crazy and I am starting to think LB could start a religion and have some followers from this site.
martin
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6/27/2006  5:14 PM
Posted by oohah:
why? see above and MS below your post.

I read them both. They both don't make much sense. Oakley is not just past his prime, he is well past his playing days. If you cannot play at all you cannot lead as a player. JVG cut Oakley a few years ago quite quickly. If even JVG, who loves him, does not want him, you think he is a good addition to any team? Come on already!

What is your response to my saying that perhaps Oakley and LB would not have gotten along as famously as you seem to think is a given?

And when did Oakley become the standard for professionalism? Toughness, I can see.

When did Oakley become the guy who takes young players under his wing and develops them? Perhaps this is another elaborate fantasy that is being weaved?

Hey, I got an idea: Let's bring back Cousy...as a player! Sure he can't play much, but who cares about a couple of minutes here and there? It's not as if a few minutes can affect the outcome of a game right? And he'll teach these guy how to play a team concept in practice while they are running circles around him.

That is very close to the same thing as bringing in Oakley as a player. Both useless.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 06-27-2006 3:38 PM]

two players come to my mind who don't really play any more but are on rosters because other players have given them credit for their turnaround and/or player development.

Calbert Cheaney is only on the GS team because of his influence and credit for Jason Richardsons development. Lots of articles on it. Same with Ervin Johnson and Milwaukee.

Not saying Oak would pan out or anything, but at the vet minumun, where is the risk of doing it?
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nyk4ever
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6/27/2006  5:17 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by oohah:
why? see above and MS below your post.

I read them both. They both don't make much sense. Oakley is not just past his prime, he is well past his playing days. If you cannot play at all you cannot lead as a player. JVG cut Oakley a few years ago quite quickly. If even JVG, who loves him, does not want him, you think he is a good addition to any team? Come on already!

What is your response to my saying that perhaps Oakley and LB would not have gotten along as famously as you seem to think is a given?

And when did Oakley become the standard for professionalism? Toughness, I can see.

When did Oakley become the guy who takes young players under his wing and develops them? Perhaps this is another elaborate fantasy that is being weaved?

Hey, I got an idea: Let's bring back Cousy...as a player! Sure he can't play much, but who cares about a couple of minutes here and there? It's not as if a few minutes can affect the outcome of a game right? And he'll teach these guy how to play a team concept in practice while they are running circles around him.

That is very close to the same thing as bringing in Oakley as a player. Both useless.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 06-27-2006 3:38 PM]

two players come to my mind who don't really play any more but are on rosters because other players have given them credit for their turnaround and/or player development.

Calbert Cheaney is only on the GS team because of his influence and credit for Jason Richardsons development. Lots of articles on it. Same with Ervin Johnson and Milwaukee.

Not saying Oak would pan out or anything, but at the vet minumun, where is the risk of doing it?

The risk of doing this is that the people who don't like Larry won't agree with anything he thought was a good idea. That's the risk. I have no problem with Oak being brough on the team for the Vets minimum becuase Curry and Frye both need a lesson in toughness.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 06-27-2006 5:18 PM]
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oohah
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6/27/2006  5:25 PM
two players come to my mind who don't really play any more but are on rosters because other players have given them credit for their turnaround and/or player development.

Calbert Cheaney is only on the GS team because of his influence and credit for Jason Richardsons development. Lots of articles on it. Same with Ervin Johnson and Milwaukee.

Not saying Oak would pan out or anything, but at the vet minumun, where is the risk of doing it?

I am not saying there is a risk, I am saying there is no point. I am also saying that Oakley likes to run his mouth. DO you recall his tirades even when the Knicks were good? That is fine when you can back that up with some play, but when you have not played in four years it makes no sense. Maybe as an assistant coach it does.

Both Calbert Cheaney and Ervin Johnson are veteran mentors, fine. (Neither were very good NBA players though, not in Oakleys league.) But you only get one of those per team. Malik Rose or Oakley, take your pick.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
martin
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6/27/2006  5:26 PM
Posted by oohah:
two players come to my mind who don't really play any more but are on rosters because other players have given them credit for their turnaround and/or player development.

Calbert Cheaney is only on the GS team because of his influence and credit for Jason Richardsons development. Lots of articles on it. Same with Ervin Johnson and Milwaukee.

Not saying Oak would pan out or anything, but at the vet minumun, where is the risk of doing it?

I am not saying there is a risk, I am saying there is no point. I am also saying that Oakley likes to run his mouth. DO you recall his tirades even when the Knicks were good? That is fine when you can back that up with some play, but when you have not played in four years it makes no sense. Maybe as an assistant coach it does.

Both Calbert Cheaney and Ervin Johnson are veteran mentors, fine. (Neither were very good NBA players though, not in Oakleys league.) But you only get one of those per team. Malik Rose or Oakley, take your pick.

oohah

you only get 1 cause you say you only get 1? LOL. AD too, right? Or should one of AD/Malik have been cut?
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oohah
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6/27/2006  5:38 PM
you only get 1 cause you say you only get 1? LOL. AD too, right? Or should one of AD/Malik have been cut?

You only get one because it does not make sense to give more than one roster spot on a team to players that cannot play. And yes, I have stated on the record many times before that Rose should not be playing at all and subtracting valuable minutes from the other players. So he should have been cut, or at least inactive until we can trade his contract.

AD can get 5-10 minutes a game still, but not as a regular starter, and if he is playing more than that you are in big trouble. By the way the Raptors cut him after a few games, they did not want him taking up valuable roster space just for his vaunted steadying veteran influence.

How many roster spots do you want to reserve for players that can't play?

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 06-27-2006 5:39 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
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