shaq, ray allen, Redd, Paul Pierce

Posted by rvhoss:

shaq, ray allen, Redd, Paul Pierce

I was trying to be nice.

francis, marbury, jalen all make max $$$'s on this team.
and some people don't want marion?

all the guy does is play 40+ mins a night and goes balls out every minutes. he grabs boards, gets steals, and block shots. he may be a top 3 athlete in the league. so yeah, we don't need him b/c this kind of "max dollar player" ain't worthy to wear a knicks jersey. he's no zach or kmart. those are real knicks.

Posted by nyk4ever:

What bothers me about this trade from a Phoenix standpoint is that they keep trading away defenders. I really do think that you can not win a championship in this league playing the style the Suns play without the defense and by losing Marion they are losing one of their most versatile defenders on their team. How many more points do the Suns think their gonna score by making this trade?

they may pick up defenders at 10 and 21

Posted by djsunyc:

francis, marbury, jalen all make max $$$'s on this team.
and some people don't want marion?

all the guy does is play 40+ mins a night and goes balls out every minutes. he grabs boards, gets steals, and block shots. he may be a top 3 athlete in the league. so yeah, we don't need him b/c this kind of "max dollar player" ain't worthy to wear a knicks jersey. he's no zach or kmart. those are real knicks.

I don't like his game. I'd like a player who I think can run and play a half court game, I don't view him as that kind of player.
I could make the same argument about K-Mart, although admittedly SM is a much better player than K-Mart.

Also, as good as he is, his numbers are inflated becuase of the way Phoenix plays. They have more poseessions, so naturally he grabs more boards. Even TT was putting up rebound numbers out there. SM has only ever played run and gun. Kapeesh.

And he's dumb, he thinks Steve Nash being Canadian means he's not white.

Posted by tkf:

Talent wise, it is lopsided to me, because marion is flat out a better player than lewis and probably anonye at the #10 spot in the draft. The key here is looking at how many threes marion took last year. Marion since D'antoni arrived has taken more threes than he probably ever envisioned. Adding lewis to that rotation and he getting marion shots from three, is going to make the suns tougher, because lewis is just a better shooter, marion along with ray allen in seattle is a nice slasher/shooter balance that team needs... I think the trade can be good for both teams..

I co-sign this entire assessment.

I like it for both teams too. People are forgetting about Danny Fortson. Put Fortson on the same frontline with Amare and KT and the Suns frontline goes from soft two years ago to extremely tough to deal with. Those three will defend very aggressively, grab a ton of rebounds, and can score (Amare scores when he wants, KT hits those open Js).

True, they lose rebounds in the individual Marion/Lewis matchup, but they definitely make it up adding Fortson to that front line.

The Suns are giving up Marion to get A) a better 3-point shooter at small forward (would've been nice this year when they finally stopped scoring in game 6), B) a player notorious for tenacity under the hoop and rebounding prowess, and C) are moving up 17 spots in the draft.

All of this, and they are avoiding the luxury tax. Not sure how you could disagree with the Suns.

Marion is expendable for Phoenix. Remember how Lamar Odom ate him up in the Laker playoff series? The Clippers exposed him too. And finally, Josh Howard probably outplayed him in the Dallas series too.

Posted by Solace:

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by Solace:

Marion is one of the top 10 players in the league and is always top 3-5 in fantasy.

I wouldn't give **** what his fantasy or other stats are. There is no way, and I mean absolutely NO WAY Shawn Marion is top 10 in the league. NOt a chance in hell.

KG
TD
D. Wayde
Kobe
Elton Brand
Vince
A.I.
Lebron James
Dirk Nowivtski
Steve Nash

And that is only 10. If we were to look at the players who I think most GMs would take above him, including those mentioned above, (which are undisputeable) I think I could pull out at least 6 more, maybe 10 more.

Shawn is a 2nd tier kind of player. He needs a system to thrive in, kinda like Kenyon. He's better than Kenyon though. But can you imagine how utterly useless Marion would be in a ahlf-court game where no one doubles down and he has to score with his man on him with that chest jumper? sounds scary, he's a really really good player, but I don't like him and wouldn't want him on my team because of his limitations.

From your list and the ones that followed, I'd easily put him ahead of Allen Iverson and Michael Redd, without hesitation. I'd also arguably put him in the same class or higher than Tim Duncan, Shaq, Vince Carter and Paul Pierce. Now, this is just my opinion, so you disagree, and that's fine. Top 10 was probably a little rash, I'll agree. So I'll so more like top 15. Point is I'm not sure Rashard Lewis is even in the top 40.

Yeah, I'd put Marion ahead of Vince, Paul, and AI. I'd put him at the same level as Shaq because Shaq's almost 40 and is quickly declining (but still very good).
Yeah, I'd agree that Lewis is around 40 or 50. This really looks like Phoenix is just trying to save money at the expense of winning.


[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 06-25-2006 5:28 PM]

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by Killa4luv:

Also, as good as he is, his numbers are inflated becuase of the way Phoenix plays. They have more poseessions, so naturally he grabs more boards. Even TT was putting up rebound numbers out there. SM has only ever played run and gun. Kapeesh.

marion's career:

         g    min    pts    reb   ast   stl   blk   fg%
99/00    51   24.7   10.2   6.4   1.4   0.8   1.0   47.1   w/ kidd
00/01    79   36.2   17.3   10.7  2.0   1.7   1.4   48.0   w/ kidd
01/02    81   38.4   19.1   9.9   2.0   1.8   1.1   46.9   w/ steph
02/03    81   41.6   21.2   9.5   2.4   2.3   1.2   45.2   w/ steph
03/04    79   40.7   19.0   9.3   2.7   2.1   1.3   44.0   w/ steph/ward/eisley
04/05    81   38.8   19.4   11.3  1.9   2.0   1.5   47.6   w/ nash
05/06    81   40.3   21.8   11.8  1.8   2.0   1.7   52.5   w/ nash

so even without kidd and nash and their pass-first uptempo high possession offense, he still averaged 19+ ppg and 9.5+ reb with steph.

the one thing I see is the FG%. Drops with Steph and is about the same with Nash and Kidd. He did say that those guys made shots easier for him, right?