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Define Success
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Bonn1997
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6/23/2006  11:30 PM
AUTOADVERT
franco12
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6/23/2006  11:36 PM
I don't get caught up in the money.

I think if Isiah gets this team to 500, he has to be considered for hall of fame honers.

the team won 23 games- your talking about largely the same roster winning 18 more games- that is nearly double what they won.

I am looking to see effort, development and chemistry.

If that happens, I think I'd be happy with 37 wins.

Another measure of success - no one has mentioned- is if we can win more games than Chicago so we don't have to swap picks-
EwingsGlass
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6/24/2006  12:53 AM
For me, a "success" is being excited about watching an entire Knick game again. Lately my excitement has faded within the first 3 mins of the 1st quarter. But if we are speaking more objectively, I am with Rich, 41 wins or the playoffs...development by the young studs. As a third alternative for success, I will accept cap space irrespective of record or excitement about watching.
You know I gonna spin wit it
Allanfan20
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6/24/2006  1:26 AM
True success equals winning a championship, but for this team:

Making strides everyday. Having guys commited to finally play on both ends of the court, committed to eachother more than themselves.

Becoming a basketball team.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
djsunyc
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6/24/2006  1:36 AM
isiah is already halfway out the door. forget about his coaching resume and his x's and o's. that will mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. he is being put in this position to force him out. the anucha case prevents them from firing isiah. with the spotlight completely on him, performing dual duties, and then the case in october, i have a feeling isiah is going to step down. isiah as coach is not a promotion. he doesn't have the full backing of dolan. he's going to resign.
Allanfan20
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6/24/2006  1:41 AM
If Isiah resigns, who will be the GM? Mills??? Who coaches? Herb?
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
DarkKnicks
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6/24/2006  4:50 AM
Success to me is:
1) Get to the play-offs aka winning games.
2) See some improvement in our players.

Of course Larry failed in both aspects.
Anji
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6/24/2006  5:35 AM
Posted by oohah:

Hi Guys,

The amount of improvement that would have made you happy if LB stayed on next season should make you happy under Isiah next season.

For me that is contending for a playoff spot or about .500 ball. That would be a dramatic improvement.

If the Knicks get beat in first round I'll be ecstatic.

If they make it past the first round I'll sh!t myself!

If they make the conference finals I don't know what I'll do.

Etc.

oohah

Posted by rojasmas:

How is having a .500 record a success? Wasn't that the expectation of LB in his first year? Oh, I know, these youngsters have a year under their belt now... they won 23 games, count them. Keep the standards the same for Isiah as they were for LB. No more or less. If LB won 41 his first year then yes, that team should win 50 the next year. So Isiah should win 50 his second year. Be fair. LB set the timetable back.

Cosign.

If this team competes for a playoff spot and the kids Isiah brought in are playing well/improving, that's all Isiah really needs to do for me to be sucessful. Because that would be giving the knicks an foundation to build on.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
Killa4luv
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6/24/2006  6:01 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

3 years under isiah, over $300 mil spent and .500 is acceptable?
Amazing. So what exactly would have been success under Brown?
If Brown had us in the playoffs this past season, you would be creaming yourself.
We win 23 under him and you wanna give him another year.
But if Isiah comes close to doubling the win total with the same roster and getting to the playoffs, it isn't success because of the payroll.

Yeah, that makes alot of sense.
McK1
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6/24/2006  8:38 AM
I <3 big "IF" threads
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
rvhoss
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6/24/2006  9:08 AM
so, dj, championship for zeke or failure...you're the worst, and after 23 wins your crying foul over the last coach getting the boot?

the sentiment is the same...show some actual improvement, team play, .500 and he should get coach of the year.

more than 33 wins is success.

I would like to see .500 to be comfortably ecstatic and start to throw around "I told you so".
all kool aid all the time.
rvhoss
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6/24/2006  9:13 AM
the reason we are saying 33 and 43 wins is because all the haters are saying the roster is sht and nobody can win with it. Then at the same time (not fish, who was reasonable, but dj specifically) you refuse to admit getting anything out of these guys is a succes.

Let's try to look at this objectively...let's say we're not talking about isiah thomas or larry brown.

Not only would it be success for the coach but, at the same time, vindication for the GM who brought all these players in.

We only win 23 games, we keep the relative same roster and change coaches and improve 10 games...is that a success? How about an 18 game improvement?

It's not about the knicks for you dj, it's about you hating isiah.

Stop being so obvious in you disdain for the personality and think about the knicks...FOR ONCE.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 06-24-2006 09:20 AM]
all kool aid all the time.
Bippity10
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6/24/2006  11:12 AM
Our goal should be to win a championship and do what it takes to get there. Now that may be 1, 3,5, 10 years away but that is the ultimate goal. Worrying about winning 33 or 43 games this year is shortsighted and is what we normally do. A successful season is one that results in progress that we can build around. Winning 43 games, having no draft picks, unable to trade anyone or sign a free-agent of consequence is not success. Winning 33 games seeing the young guys take a step up, ridding the roster of some of the junk and replacing them with hard nosed, no excuse players, is success to me.

Fans need to stop taking things so personal. Stop worrying about the names and worry about what it takes to build a true champion. Names are just what management keeps selling us.
I just hope that people will like me
djsunyc
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6/24/2006  11:14 AM
Posted by rvhoss:

so, dj, championship for zeke or failure...you're the worst, and after 23 wins your crying foul over the last coach getting the boot?

the sentiment is the same...show some actual improvement, team play, .500 and he should get coach of the year.

more than 33 wins is success.

I would like to see .500 to be comfortably ecstatic and start to throw around "I told you so".

did i not say playoffs. you guys have to stop putting words in my mouth.

it's simple. many people believe lb cost us this past season. many people thought we should've been in the playoffs. so if zeke coaches this team, we should be in the playoffs.

and in the grand scheme of things, another coach fired means another plan aborted. so zeke gets a VERY short string as this is his 3rd year as the GM. if they kept lb, then they would've been committing to a plan. obviously lb wanted to change what was going on so i knew it was going to take time if they kept him (to make trades and get his players). but once you fire lb, that means you believed in the plan you had all along so let's see some results. people were upset we didn't make the 8th seed. so let's see the 8th seed if it last year's failures were really b/c of coaching.
djsunyc
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6/24/2006  11:17 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:

If Isiah resigns, who will be the GM? Mills??? Who coaches? Herb?

i don't know but they'll have someone lined up. they'll probably let herb coach out the season and hopefully stern will hook us up with someone. but sadly, i don't think stern really cares about us right now.
djsunyc
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6/24/2006  11:21 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by djsunyc:

3 years under isiah, over $300 mil spent and .500 is acceptable?
But if Isiah comes close to doubling the win total with the same roster and getting to the playoffs, it isn't success because of the payroll.

Yeah, that makes alot of sense.

3rd fired coach under isiah. yeah, it's unnaceptable. you see, i don't believe in isiah. i don't like a majority of the roster. plans change here after every season. there's a knee jerk reaction to everything. so fire chaney, fine. fire lenny, fine. fire lb, fine. that means isiah believes in this roster. well, after hundreds and hundreds of millions spent on it, let's see what's there to believe in.

that does make sense.

marbury, curry, francis, jalen, mo, jerome, etc. etc. etc. these are guys you do not target if you are seriously thinking about building a championship team. those are players you can get to ADD to a championship mix (like miami did when they added toine and jwill to wade and shaq) but you do not start building with those guys. i feel like they will ultimately fail, be it lottery or 1st round of the playoffs. right now, our future is on frye's shoulders. curry is nothing more than a complimentary piece. i am not "proud" of this team. we really should be like the bulls - a young core that's known for playing hard. instead we have a group of mental midgets that takes away from some of the young guys we do have (which ain't that many).

[Edited by - djsunyc on 06-24-2006 11:24 AM]
Allanfan20
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6/24/2006  11:27 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Allanfan20:

If Isiah resigns, who will be the GM? Mills??? Who coaches? Herb?

i don't know but they'll have someone lined up. they'll probably let herb coach out the season and hopefully stern will hook us up with someone. but sadly, i don't think stern really cares about us right now.

Am I the only one that really does not feel comfortable with this relying on Stern trend lately? It's gotton that bad.

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
BasketballJones
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6/24/2006  11:38 AM
Success for me would be Dolan selling the Knicks or ceding repsonsibilty for the team to someone competent.

https:// It's not so hard.
djsunyc
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6/24/2006  11:40 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Allanfan20:

If Isiah resigns, who will be the GM? Mills??? Who coaches? Herb?

i don't know but they'll have someone lined up. they'll probably let herb coach out the season and hopefully stern will hook us up with someone. but sadly, i don't think stern really cares about us right now.

Am I the only one that really does not feel comfortable with this relying on Stern trend lately? It's gotton that bad.

here's a piece of news, it was LB that put in the clause for stern to mediate an arbitration and it was "looked over" by msg lawyers. they aren't happy stern is the arbitrator.
nyk4ever
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6/24/2006  11:40 AM
Posted by BasketballJones:

Success for me would be Dolan selling the Knicks or ceding repsonsibilty for the team to someone competent.

Wow, if that ever happens I will be the happiest man on the face of the Earth.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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