Posted by BRIGGS:

hopefully we can continue the path of acquiring young prospects


there is a stronger likelihood Isiah will actually play them consistently



hopefully we dont see much of JJ Malik Rose and Mo Taylor

the question can francis and starbury co-exsist--no Stevie got to go

I hear ya Briggs that is an exciting prospect but you just have to look at Isiah track record of acquiring talent and he always goes for guys who don't play defense. We'll make the playoffs next year and get swept by the Nets but it will be a huge success in the eyes of Dolan.

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 06-22-2006 10:42 PM]

Posted by holfresh:

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by misterearl:

nyk4ever - so let me get this straight. the "image-conscious" Isiah can buy MORE time for himself in the eyes of the fans and media by playing a bunch of veterans INSTEAD of a young crop of talented yoots that HE selected?

Okayfine

This has nothing to do with the fans and the media anymore, this has to do with Isiah putting up wins and getting somewhere in the playoffs with the team he constructed. He's not going to do ANY of that if he develops youth and if he doesn't do any of that he will be fired. This idea Isiah will be developing youth just isn't going to happen, he has to win as many games as possible to show Dolan he is worth keeping around.

Just a question...The bong that you and Joe seem to be hitting so hard, did you get that at a two for one sale?....

By the way lovely signature..Finally something we can both agree upon...



[Edited by - holfresh on 06-22-2006 10:39 PM]

Do you just feel the need to insult people, even when you are being ignorant?

Bro, Zeke loses, he is gonna lose his job and after his performance here, who would hire him if they were sober? I mean Damn, Dolan is a documented drunk (no offense to anyone here, just fact), maybe that's how Zeke got his chance here in the first place.

Our argument is Zeke has to win to keep his job. A very fair and valid argument. Yours is he is going to stay his course even if it costs him his job here? Yeah, that makes sense.

Posted by nixluva:

You guys kill me. You think Isiah and Dolan haven't talked about such matters. Dolan knows this is gonna happen in stages. Stage one is not so hard. Just get this team to play like a real team in year one. That will likely get them to the point of fighting for a playoff spot. The young kids are exciting and talented and that will shine thru more this year and the fans will get behind them. See fans aren't stupid and they will understandibly have lower expectations when they see kids on the floor. As long as they're playing hard and hustling like they always do, then the fans will understand if they don't always win.

Do you not realize the Knicks have had 5 coaches (including Isiah) since 2003? Yet you are saying that Dolan understands that this is going to happen in stages? Obviously Dolan doesn't think that way or else he'd give his coaches more of a chance to perform their gameplans and their ideas for the franchise. Please don't give me this idea that Dolan is going to give Isiah a long-leash.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 06-22-2006 10:51 PM]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/23/sports/basketball/23thomas.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

June 23, 2006
New Coach Sees Players as Part of the Solution
By HOWARD BECK

For the past 11 months, the Knicks have operated in parallel, diametrically opposed universes: one occupied by Isiah Thomas, in which every player on the roster was part of a grand plan for reviving the franchise; and one occupied by Larry Brown, in which every player on the roster was an impediment to progress.

There is one universe now, and one person responsible for identifying the right players and coaxing the best out of them. Thomas, who as the Knicks' president drafted, signed or traded for every player on the roster, is now in charge of coaching them.

The Knicks fired Brown on Thursday and installed Thomas as the franchise's 23rd head coach.

Thomas, 45, is the Knicks' fifth coach in the Thomas era. He does not have the coaching credentials of his predecessor — Brown is a Hall of Famer who won N.C.A.A. and N.B.A. championships — but he will take to the bench things that Brown did not.

Thomas likes and believes in the players he has assembled, or at least did when he obtained each of them. He commands great loyalty from some of them, most notably Stephon Marbury, the star point guard who clashed with Brown. Marbury and Thomas are next-door neighbors in Westchester County and confidants who sometimes greet each other with a kiss on the cheek.

Thomas also has strong relationships with some of the Knicks' younger players — guards Jamal Crawford and Nate Robinson, forwards David Lee and Channing Frye, and center Eddy Curry.

The Knicks could improve quickly, if not dramatically, under Thomas. Scouts and executives generally agree that the Knicks have more talent — although often redundant talent — than their record showed. The current players also did not fit Brown's mold of a grind-it-out, defensive-oriented team.

Thomas prefers a more up-tempo approach and could try to pattern the Knicks after the Phoenix Suns, who win with lots of offense and minimal defense. The Knicks do not have as many shooters as the Suns, or a playmaker as gifted as Steve Nash. But a lineup with Steve Francis, Marbury, Crawford, Robinson and Frye, given the freedom to run, could provide some fireworks.

Yet Thomas moves to the bench reluctantly, having told friends he would coach the Knicks only as a last resort. Thomas had repeatedly said that he preferred to focus on his executive duties with the Knicks.

But it appears that James L. Dolan, the Madison Square Garden chairman, gave Thomas no choice. It is likely that Thomas's performance on the bench will determine the length of his employment in the front office.

There is another wrinkle for Thomas, who has rarely met with reporters to talk about his team over the last two years. Under N.B.A. rules, the head coach is required to speak to the news media after every practice and three times on game days (at the morning shoot-around, pregame and postgame).

Since taking over the Knicks' basketball operations in December 2003, Thomas has furiously and sometimes haphazardly reworked the roster, increasing the Knicks' league-high payroll to $125 million. The Knicks have become younger and more athletic — Thomas's favorite buzzwords — but not winners. Their 23-59 record last season was the second worst in the N.B.A.

Thomas has just three years of coaching experience, all with the Indiana Pacers. He compiled a 131-115 record with the Pacers from 2000 to 2003 and won 48 games in his final season before being fired.

Indiana was stocked with talent — including Reggie Miller, Jermaine O'Neal and Ron Artest — but was the youngest team in the league when Thomas was hired. As young teams often do, the Pacers faltered in the postseason under Thomas. They were eliminated in the first round all three years.

Some who watched Thomas in Indiana said that he was creative offensively, relied on ball and player movement and pushed the tempo every chance he could. Players generally liked him, although he clashed with Jalen Rose, who is now a Knick. Thomas was sometimes criticized for not practicing hard enough, an approach he took from his mentor, Chuck Daly.

It is not yet clear what will become of the Knicks' coaching staff. Herb Williams, who has survived previous purges, is expected to remain as one of Thomas's assistants. Williams ran Thursday's workout of college prospects and will probably coach the Knicks' summer-league team in Las Vegas.

It is also possible that Thomas will use the summer league to polish his coaching skills.

The assistants Mark Aguirre and George Glymph were hired by Thomas and figure to remain on the bench. The assistants hired by Brown — Dave Hanners, Phil Ford and Brendan O'Connor — could be let go.

O'Connor, who is close to Sacramento's new coach, Eric Musselman, has been offered a job with the Kings.

Thomas's assistants in Indiana included Brendan Malone, Jim Stack, Tree Rollins and Vern Fleming. Malone — fired by Thomas in Toronto and New York — probably will not work for him again. Stack, who works in the Minnesota Timberwolves' front office, is a close friend of Thomas's and could be offered a job as an assistant coach or an assistant general manager.

Hey, it's like lenny Wilkens all over again. Maybe he'll close trainingg camp a day early again. At least this is gonna go over great with Steph, though I'm not sure it's the best for the kids:

Thomas was sometimes criticized for not practicing hard enough, an approach he took from his mentor, Chuck Daly.


And this will go over great with all those on the other side of the locker room:

Marbury and Thomas are next-door neighbors in Westchester County and confidants who sometimes greet each other with a kiss on the cheek.

I think this team will get off to a nice beginning. Probably not a fast start but they'll get some momentum somewhere in the first half of the season. And then the success and favoritism from Isiah will get to Steph and he'll get c0cky and grandiose, AGAIN, and the bottom will fall out. Just like it did under Wilkens when he declared himself "the best", and then like it did under Brown after the win streak when Marbury became publicly insolent.

Below is a post I made on another board when 4 games into our win streak the Marbury supporters started numerous "where are the Marbury hater's now?" threads. I think it will be as appropriate next year as it was this last:

I think Brown has been addressing a lot of my concerns about his tempo, poor use of the floor, and ball domination of last year. So that's a plus.

But I don't quickly forget that just a few days ago Steph was sulking so low and glaring so hard many of us wondered if he still wanted to be here. He had to make an announcement to assure us he did.

I also don't forget many a good stretch from him in his now two full years here. Remember, he even won POTW here once. But that didn't stop the bottom from falling out after his infamous self aggrandizing comments, when the team apparently and reportedly divided around him, and our season was lost in an instant.

People sometimes forget that many of us criticize him on several levels. I give him credit for that which Brown has gotten from him. Assumedly he practices now, he's ball dominating less, plodding leass, and giving effort on defense more. He's becoming Brownbury, as Coke says. It's as much a tribute to Brown as Steph - because if Herb coach this would probably still be Club Medbury -- but Steph gets his due too.

That said, I still don't trust that the bottom wont fall out again. Recall last year, we were 16-13 with many believing the chemistry was starting to click and the best was yet to come and we'd make our push to secure the division. But on a dime that all went south faster than a retired Long Islander in winter. Unexpectedly we plummeted, only to learn about the chaos that was breeding behind closed doors.

Maybe this squad has better chemistry, I don't know. I know Eddy, JC, Nate, Q, Lee and Frye are pretty tight, but I don't know where Steph and the rest fit in.

It's simply not incomprehensible to me that in time a couple of key guys might go down to injury, our record will suffer, and surly ol' Steph will rear his towel head again casting the brand of recriminations and gloom that have landed Steph in the center of turmoil and made him expendable at every city he's been.

Unfortunately Steph is his own worst enemy. He's a total package - the bad with the good - he is both the ointment, and the fly in the ointment. Maybe a better analogy would be a good soup with a roach in it. Do you try to eat the soup around the roach, or dump it all?

For the past 4 games Steph seems to have left his ego at home, and it appears his good is outweighing the bad, but that has not always the case, and I'm far from ready to proclaim him "cured".

But meanwhile, I like the improvements I see on the floor and I'm glad he's heeded Isiah's plea that he carry himself like a man. I don't think he's a leader yet, far from it, but it's a good idea that he fake it until he can make it. I'd rather him be a pseudo leader than a genuine brat. But lets see if he can keep it up...

[Edited by - BlueSeats on 06-23-2006 01:39 AM]