[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

a look back: starbury/lb, piece of meat, and begging
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 2 of 2 ‹ Previous 1  2 
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
BasketballJones
Posts: 31973
Alba Posts: 19
Joined: 7/16/2002
Member: #290
USA
6/22/2006  12:42 AM
https:// It's not so hard.
AUTOADVERT
BlueSeats
Posts: 27272
Alba Posts: 41
Joined: 11/6/2005
Member: #1024
6/22/2006  12:48 AM
Posted by Rich:

If Larry had a problem with Steph, he shouldn't have taken the job.

What if brown said "Isiah, I don't like Steph, I don't think I should take the job" and Isiah said "just try it and if it doesn't work out I'll move him?"
Rich
Posts: 27410
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 12/30/2003
Member: #511
USA
6/22/2006  2:51 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Rich:

If Larry had a problem with Steph, he shouldn't have taken the job.

What if brown said "Isiah, I don't like Steph, I don't think I should take the job" and Isiah said "just try it and if it doesn't work out I'll move him?"

Then Brown should have said: "How are you going to move a player with Steph's reputation for being selfish, when he is guaranteed approximately $80 million ($16,453,125, $18,281,250, $20,109,375, $21,937,500) from 2005 through 2009?"

Even granting your point arguendo, I just don't see how any reasonable person in Brown's position could think that it would be feasible to trade Steph, especially for equal value, and even if they did, Larry probably reduced Isiah's options for trading Steph by getting into a war of words with him in the newspapers.

The most charitable explanation I can come up with is that Larry, given his prior problems with Steph, might have engaged in the suspension of disbelief in order to reconcile taking a job with a team that had Steph on the roster.
Killa4luv
Posts: 27769
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
6/22/2006  8:34 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Killa4luv:

"Well, we'll see. We're 17-45, and I'll take full responsibility for us winning 17 games and losing 45. So, you're the best guard in the league and the team is 17-45, yeah, it's the coach's fault."

Is this guy crazy or what? Either you take responsibility as a coach or you blame one player. Oh and by the way, when you contradict yourself, you don't want to do it in the very next sentence.

i think the gist of what he's saying is that they should ALL be taking the blame. saying something like "we need to do a better job as players. i need to do a better job as coach. etc." but steph'll say he's the best pg but not say "it's my fault or i need to get better." so "yeah, it's the coach's fault." (to show steph totally deflecting any blame off himself)

[Edited by - djsunyc on 06-22-2006 12:21 AM]

thanks for the translation. silly me, here i am thinking brown contradicted himself. I knew one of you brownites would have a plausible explanation.
rvhoss
Posts: 24943
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/2/2004
Member: #777
Switzerland
6/22/2006  9:18 AM
I have to agree with you killa, marbs' statements get dissected and contracdictions enhanced, while browns are explained as "what he meant to say was..."

We know brown is the coach, and we know what he meant to say, we just don't understand why he doesn't stop trying to be a comedian and start being a coach.
all kool aid all the time.
BlueSeats
Posts: 27272
Alba Posts: 41
Joined: 11/6/2005
Member: #1024
6/22/2006  10:15 AM
Posted by Rich:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Rich:

If Larry had a problem with Steph, he shouldn't have taken the job.

What if brown said "Isiah, I don't like Steph, I don't think I should take the job" and Isiah said "just try it and if it doesn't work out I'll move him?"

Then Brown should have said: "How are you going to move a player with Steph's reputation for being selfish, when he is guaranteed approximately $80 million ($16,453,125, $18,281,250, $20,109,375, $21,937,500) from 2005 through 2009?"

Even granting your point arguendo, I just don't see how any reasonable person in Brown's position could think that it would be feasible to trade Steph, especially for equal value, and even if they did, Larry probably reduced Isiah's options for trading Steph by getting into a war of words with him in the newspapers.

The most charitable explanation I can come up with is that Larry, given his prior problems with Steph, might have engaged in the suspension of disbelief in order to reconcile taking a job with a team that had Steph on the roster.


You must think Isiah is dumber than I do if you think he romanced brown without knowing his feelings for Marbury. Brown took Marbury onto the Olympic team specifically as a favor to Isiah, and he's well aware Brown wanted to send him back home. But Isiah went forward anyway with a full frontal assault to sign Brown here, making videos of him winning a championship on the garden floor, presenting assessments of the school systems to his wife, and showering the kids with Knick paraphernalia. Brown didn't make it easy to be hired by demanding a 5th year on top of the 4 management was offering and he even got unprecedented contracts for his assistants. Isiah was as generous in the negotiations as he is in most trades, basically just giving the guy whatever the hell he wanted.

In a WFAN interview Isiah said without qualms that if Steph can't adapt to the coach he will get moved. Francessa replied (paraphrase) "that's easier said than done" to which Isiah responded to the effect "I think I've already demonstrated an ability to move difficult contracts."

This is the second time isiah has pitted these two together with disastrous effect in spite of any obstacles to success. That you want to diminish his responsibility is astounding.
Rich
Posts: 27410
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 12/30/2003
Member: #511
USA
6/22/2006  10:23 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Rich:

If Larry had a problem with Steph, he shouldn't have taken the job.

What if brown said "Isiah, I don't like Steph, I don't think I should take the job" and Isiah said "just try it and if it doesn't work out I'll move him?"

Then Brown should have said: "How are you going to move a player with Steph's reputation for being selfish, when he is guaranteed approximately $80 million ($16,453,125, $18,281,250, $20,109,375, $21,937,500) from 2005 through 2009?"

Even granting your point arguendo, I just don't see how any reasonable person in Brown's position could think that it would be feasible to trade Steph, especially for equal value, and even if they did, Larry probably reduced Isiah's options for trading Steph by getting into a war of words with him in the newspapers.

The most charitable explanation I can come up with is that Larry, given his prior problems with Steph, might have engaged in the suspension of disbelief in order to reconcile taking a job with a team that had Steph on the roster.


You must think Isiah is dumber than I do if you think he romanced brown without knowing his feelings for Marbury. Brown took Marbury onto the Olympic team specifically as a favor to Isiah, and he's well aware Brown wanted to send him back home. But Isiah went forward anyway with a full frontal assault to sign Brown here, making videos of him winning a championship on the garden floor, presenting assessments of the school systems to his wife, and showering the kids with Knick paraphernalia. Brown didn't make it easy to be hired by demanding a 5th year on top of the 4 management was offering and he even got unprecedented contracts for his assistants. Isiah was as generous in the negotiations as he is in most trades, basically just giving the guy whatever the hell he wanted.

In a WFAN interview Isiah said without qualms that if Steph can't adapt to the coach he will get moved. Francessa replied (paraphrase) "that's easier said than done" to which Isiah responded to the effect "I think I've already demonstrated an ability to move difficult contracts."

This is the second time isiah has pitted these two together with disastrous effect in spite of any obstacles to success. That you want to diminish his responsibility is astounding.

I think Isiah has a snake oil salesman quality. He tends to believe whatever he says at the time he says it without fear of the subsequent consequences, but there is alternative possibility: Dolan may have been the driving force behind Brown's hiring.

You know as well as I do that talk is cheap.

Either way, I'm no diminishing Isiah's responsibiity. Every decision the Knicks make is imputed to him irrespective of the reason that decision was made.

The bottom line is that in his current capacity as coach/GM, he will be the fall guy if the team fails. That's the reason I support a coaching change.

In an ideal world, I would like to have seen Dolan, Mills, Isiah, and Brown go, or I would have liked to have seen a the kind of roster flexibility that would have suited Brown.

That isn't possible. Consequently, I have to settle for letting Brown go now, and perhaps Isiah and Mills next year if things don't turn around.
Killa4luv
Posts: 27769
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
6/22/2006  10:57 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Rich:

If Larry had a problem with Steph, he shouldn't have taken the job.

What if brown said "Isiah, I don't like Steph, I don't think I should take the job" and Isiah said "just try it and if it doesn't work out I'll move him?"

Then Brown should have said: "How are you going to move a player with Steph's reputation for being selfish, when he is guaranteed approximately $80 million ($16,453,125, $18,281,250, $20,109,375, $21,937,500) from 2005 through 2009?"

Even granting your point arguendo, I just don't see how any reasonable person in Brown's position could think that it would be feasible to trade Steph, especially for equal value, and even if they did, Larry probably reduced Isiah's options for trading Steph by getting into a war of words with him in the newspapers.

The most charitable explanation I can come up with is that Larry, given his prior problems with Steph, might have engaged in the suspension of disbelief in order to reconcile taking a job with a team that had Steph on the roster.


You must think Isiah is dumber than I do if you think he romanced brown without knowing his feelings for Marbury. Brown took Marbury onto the Olympic team specifically as a favor to Isiah, and he's well aware Brown wanted to send him back home. But Isiah went forward anyway with a full frontal assault to sign Brown here, making videos of him winning a championship on the garden floor, presenting assessments of the school systems to his wife, and showering the kids with Knick paraphernalia. Brown didn't make it easy to be hired by demanding a 5th year on top of the 4 management was offering and he even got unprecedented contracts for his assistants. Isiah was as generous in the negotiations as he is in most trades, basically just giving the guy whatever the hell he wanted.

In a WFAN interview Isiah said without qualms that if Steph can't adapt to the coach he will get moved. Francessa replied (paraphrase) "that's easier said than done" to which Isiah responded to the effect "I think I've already demonstrated an ability to move difficult contracts."

This is the second time isiah has pitted these two together with disastrous effect in spite of any obstacles to success. That you want to diminish his responsibility is astounding.

Now you want to name Isiah as the man who 'forced' LB to take on Steph in the olympics as a favor?

Where do you brownites come up with this stuff? LOL!!! LOL!!

[Edited by - killa4luv on 06-22-2006 10:58 AM]
BlueSeats
Posts: 27272
Alba Posts: 41
Joined: 11/6/2005
Member: #1024
6/22/2006  11:08 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Rich:

If Larry had a problem with Steph, he shouldn't have taken the job.

What if brown said "Isiah, I don't like Steph, I don't think I should take the job" and Isiah said "just try it and if it doesn't work out I'll move him?"

Then Brown should have said: "How are you going to move a player with Steph's reputation for being selfish, when he is guaranteed approximately $80 million ($16,453,125, $18,281,250, $20,109,375, $21,937,500) from 2005 through 2009?"

Even granting your point arguendo, I just don't see how any reasonable person in Brown's position could think that it would be feasible to trade Steph, especially for equal value, and even if they did, Larry probably reduced Isiah's options for trading Steph by getting into a war of words with him in the newspapers.

The most charitable explanation I can come up with is that Larry, given his prior problems with Steph, might have engaged in the suspension of disbelief in order to reconcile taking a job with a team that had Steph on the roster.


You must think Isiah is dumber than I do if you think he romanced brown without knowing his feelings for Marbury. Brown took Marbury onto the Olympic team specifically as a favor to Isiah, and he's well aware Brown wanted to send him back home. But Isiah went forward anyway with a full frontal assault to sign Brown here, making videos of him winning a championship on the garden floor, presenting assessments of the school systems to his wife, and showering the kids with Knick paraphernalia. Brown didn't make it easy to be hired by demanding a 5th year on top of the 4 management was offering and he even got unprecedented contracts for his assistants. Isiah was as generous in the negotiations as he is in most trades, basically just giving the guy whatever the hell he wanted.

In a WFAN interview Isiah said without qualms that if Steph can't adapt to the coach he will get moved. Francessa replied (paraphrase) "that's easier said than done" to which Isiah responded to the effect "I think I've already demonstrated an ability to move difficult contracts."

This is the second time isiah has pitted these two together with disastrous effect in spite of any obstacles to success. That you want to diminish his responsibility is astounding.

Now you want to name Isiah as the man who 'forced' LB to take on Steph in the olympics as a favor?

Where do you brownites come up with this stuff? LOL!!! LOL!!

[Edited by - killa4luv on 06-22-2006 10:58 AM]


Why are you putting words in my mouth. I said "as a favor" and you quote that as "force?"

Don't make me do the research on this one for ya, Killa, show some spine and do your own.
Killa4luv
Posts: 27769
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
6/22/2006  11:15 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:

Now you want to name Isiah as the man who 'forced' LB to take on Steph in the olympics as a favor?

Where do you brownites come up with this stuff? LOL!!! LOL!!

[Edited by - killa4luv on 06-22-2006 10:58 AM]


Why are you putting words in my mouth. I said "as a favor" and you quote that as "force?"

Don't make me do the research on this one for ya, Killa, show some spine and do your own.
Forced, favor whatever. My point is that what you are sayin is untrue. Isiah got Steph placed on the olympic team? Or did the olympic committtee choose him? Or when they said "Olympic Committee" did they mean "Isiah Thomas"?

OR, is this a figment of your Larry Brown loving imagination?
BlueSeats
Posts: 27272
Alba Posts: 41
Joined: 11/6/2005
Member: #1024
6/22/2006  11:30 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by Killa4luv:

Now you want to name Isiah as the man who 'forced' LB to take on Steph in the olympics as a favor?

Where do you brownites come up with this stuff? LOL!!! LOL!!

[Edited by - killa4luv on 06-22-2006 10:58 AM]


Why are you putting words in my mouth. I said "as a favor" and you quote that as "force?"

Don't make me do the research on this one for ya, Killa, show some spine and do your own.
Forced, favor whatever. My point is that what you are sayin is untrue. Isiah got Steph placed on the olympic team? Or did the olympic committtee choose him? Or when they said "Olympic Committee" did they mean "Isiah Thomas"?

OR, is this a figment of your Larry Brown loving imagination?

Killa, how long do you have to know me before you know I don't pull this stuff out of my azz?

Then again, it occurs to me, why would Brown be remotely tempted to babysit Stephon Marbury?

It’s not as if he vaguely enjoyed coaching him in the Olympics, sponsoring him solely as a favor to Thomas.

http://www.cantstopthebleeding.com/?p=870

Learn to use a search engine and stop wasting my time and embarrassing yourself.
Killa4luv
Posts: 27769
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
6/24/2006  7:52 PM
Alright Blue, lets get this straight. YOu showed me your "proof". Peter Vescey said it.


But help me understad this: How is it that the olymbic committee picked every other player to play on the olympic team, but Steph was on there as a favor to Isiah? So did LB allow that to happen? Are you saying LB allowed him to be on as a favor?

What are you saying? This all makes no sense at all to me, this is never how I understood the process to work, and frankly Blue, a throw in line from Peter Vescey isn't enough to convince me.
Page 2 of 2 ‹ Previous 1  2 
« Reply To Topic
a look back: starbury/lb, piece of meat, and begging
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy