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Another year, another celebration by a team other then the Knicks
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Nalod
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6/21/2006  9:25 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by djsunyc:


but they didn't.

just like dirk missing the ft in game 3. he missed it.
and howard missing 2 ft's in OT. he missed them.

record books say pistons won the title in 2004. record books also say the head coach was larry brown. record books also say the starting 5 were billups, rip, prince, sheed, and ben. and they beat shaq/kobe and phil.

excuses, excuses, excuses. you don't want to offer lb ANY excuses for how he coached this year but start piling them on for when he was successful.

oh hey, cool, record books!

let's see, going by my record books - only USA coach in the last 30 years not to win a gold medal with a USA basketball team in the Olympics? Guess!

okay, okay, I'll tell you - LARRY BROWN!

and guess what his excuse was? the roster wasn't built right! only David Stern stopped talking to him in Athens because guess who helped assemble the roster? Larry Brown again!

NBA champ Dwyane Wade barely played. Lebron barely played. Amare barely played. boy, what a crummy roster. what rotten luck for the brilliant godhead of basketball brilliance that is larry brown. poor larry has never made a mistake - he's just been cursed with rosters that didn't play the right way.

THey were rookies then. Not two years removed. They understood it was for them to learn. Carmelo was a bone head and Lebron was not as polished as he is now.

Wade was the 5th pick and he has over exceeded! That is wonderful, but you have to draft the best players you can. You need picks to do that. Good for the heat, but they did not know they were getting the beast when they drafted him. Sometimes you get a bit lucky!

That olympic team was contstructed with the players who were willing to risk life and limb to go to athens and some real young guys. you play your vets.

And when you have Starbury as you country's best point guard you in need.

Look at the aftermath. We have changed everything about how we pick our players going forward. WHo is the coach? Coach K of Duke. A fundamental type of coach. A teacher. A man who has won before.

That team in retrospect was very wrong. IT was the best we could do at the time. Coach K might not have done any better.

If Shaq, Garnett and a few others played, it might not have mattered. If Kidd was not hurt, he might have done better. Woulda-coulda-shoulda.

But those guys were rookies then, not the players they are now.

And after winning the MVP, how much imagination would it take to say we should have played wade then?

And Larry? Well, he coached those guys like he always coached. Those guys were there for summer vacation and did not take it seriously. Lots of blame to go around. The coach and the players!
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BasketballJones
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6/21/2006  9:28 AM
Let's just agree not to mention Larry's championship with the Pistons, because that's obviously an asterisk series. Larry should get no credit for that series because the Lakers were in disarray and didn't play very well.

https:// It's not so hard.
djsunyc
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6/21/2006  9:34 AM
Posted by BasketballJones:

Let's just agree not to mention Larry's championship with the Pistons, because that's obviously an asterisk series. Larry should get no credit for that series because the Lakers were in disarray and didn't play very well.

that and derek fisher hit the shot with 4/10ths of a second. if he doesn't, the pistons don't even beat miami.
crzymdups
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6/21/2006  10:01 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by BasketballJones:

Let's just agree not to mention Larry's championship with the Pistons, because that's obviously an asterisk series. Larry should get no credit for that series because the Lakers were in disarray and didn't play very well.

that and derek fisher hit the shot with 4/10ths of a second. if he doesn't, the pistons don't even beat miami.

well, the Pistons played great and really took advantage of every team they played having major injuries to starters. that's what hall of fame coaching does for you though.

I like how Nalod uses the kidd being injured card to explain why we lost in the olympics, but no one thinks Kidd being injured might have had something to do with the Pistons squeaking by the Nets in 7 games. again, I guess there's no telling what miracles a hall of fame wizard/coach can work.
¿ △ ?
nyk4ever
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6/21/2006  1:34 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by crzymdups:

had one good season with the Sixers. had one good season with the Pistons. what are his other good seasons?

i'm going to chalk it up to the adrenalin flowing on this anti-lb kick this late at night. when you wake up and see this, you'll realize that you really didn't mean what you just posted.

really, the main thing I realized about these finals is that i miss the JVG/Riley days of the Knicks. those were two great coaches who maximized our talent and commanded respect and demanded defense and intensity and pride. I miss that.

Funny, Brown was demanding defense intensity and pride and players like Stephon Marbury Steve Francis and Eddy Curry, who by the way could not be coached by any coaches in their careers so far, didn't listen. The Knicks are cast-offs from other teams becuase of their poor attitude and Larry Brown is trying to weed these types of players out and you want to get on Brown? Please.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
crzymdups
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6/21/2006  1:40 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

Funny, Brown was demanding defense intensity and pride and players like Stephon Marbury Steve Francis and Eddy Curry, who by the way could not be coached by any coaches in their careers so far, didn't listen. The Knicks are cast-offs from other teams becuase of their poor attitude and Larry Brown is trying to weed these types of players out and you want to get on Brown? Please.

there's a key difference you're ignoring here. Brown asks for these things, fine. any good coach asks for these things. it's how he asks and that he decides certain players don't fit his vision and then throws games to get his point across. other coaches will work with what they have and not purposely sabotage players to prove a point. Would Brown have been willing to start Jason Williams and Antoine Walker or do they not play the right way?

¿ △ ?
nyk4ever
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6/21/2006  1:47 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by nyk4ever:

Funny, Brown was demanding defense intensity and pride and players like Stephon Marbury Steve Francis and Eddy Curry, who by the way could not be coached by any coaches in their careers so far, didn't listen. The Knicks are cast-offs from other teams becuase of their poor attitude and Larry Brown is trying to weed these types of players out and you want to get on Brown? Please.

there's a key difference you're ignoring here. Brown asks for these things, fine. any good coach asks for these things. it's how he asks and that he decides certain players don't fit his vision and then throws games to get his point across. other coaches will work with what they have and not purposely sabotage players to prove a point. Would Brown have been willing to start Jason Williams and Antoine Walker or do they not play the right way?

What do you mean Brown doesn't do this? You don't win as many games as he has and 3 championships by mistake. The guy had ONE bad year and you want to crucify him? For a team that has put its faith in the wrong people for so long and finally puts it's faith in one who has a track record of success everywhere has been, you are giving Brown way to much of a short leash.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Nalod
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6/21/2006  1:51 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by BasketballJones:

Let's just agree not to mention Larry's championship with the Pistons, because that's obviously an asterisk series. Larry should get no credit for that series because the Lakers were in disarray and didn't play very well.

that and derek fisher hit the shot with 4/10ths of a second. if he doesn't, the pistons don't even beat miami.

well, the Pistons played great and really took advantage of every team they played having major injuries to starters. that's what hall of fame coaching does for you though.

I like how Nalod uses the kidd being injured card to explain why we lost in the olympics, but no one thinks Kidd being injured might have had something to do with the Pistons squeaking by the Nets in 7 games. again, I guess there's no telling what miracles a hall of fame wizard/coach can work.


A healthy kidd would have been better than Marbury. Might not have been enough, but teams with strong leadership at the point tend to do well.

An injured limping kidd almost defested the Pistons. A one legged Kidd is better than a healthy Marbury.
islesfan
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6/21/2006  4:14 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

Another season is complete in the NBA books and another year a team other then our beloved New York Knicks wins the championship.

You and your unborn children better get used to it.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
crzymdups
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6/21/2006  4:26 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by nyk4ever:

Funny, Brown was demanding defense intensity and pride and players like Stephon Marbury Steve Francis and Eddy Curry, who by the way could not be coached by any coaches in their careers so far, didn't listen. The Knicks are cast-offs from other teams becuase of their poor attitude and Larry Brown is trying to weed these types of players out and you want to get on Brown? Please.

there's a key difference you're ignoring here. Brown asks for these things, fine. any good coach asks for these things. it's how he asks and that he decides certain players don't fit his vision and then throws games to get his point across. other coaches will work with what they have and not purposely sabotage players to prove a point. Would Brown have been willing to start Jason Williams and Antoine Walker or do they not play the right way?

What do you mean Brown doesn't do this? You don't win as many games as he has and 3 championships by mistake. The guy had ONE bad year and you want to crucify him? For a team that has put its faith in the wrong people for so long and finally puts it's faith in one who has a track record of success everywhere has been, you are giving Brown way to much of a short leash.

Brown has one championship. But people fall back on it so much as an excuse to keep him around, I can see why you'd think it was more.
¿ △ ?
nyk4ever
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6/21/2006  4:34 PM
Posted by crzymdups:


Brown has one championship. But people fall back on it so much as an excuse to keep him around, I can see why you'd think it was more.

He has 3. ABA, NCAA, NBA. Like it or not, he's been ontop 3 times. Name the list of coaches that have won both NCAA and NBA championships in modern-day basketball. It takes alot of different ways of coaching to win at the 3 levels that Brown has.



[Edited by - nyk4ever on 06-21-2006 4:35 PM]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
crzymdups
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6/21/2006  4:42 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by crzymdups:


Brown has one championship. But people fall back on it so much as an excuse to keep him around, I can see why you'd think it was more.

He has 3. ABA, NCAA, NBA. Like it or not, he's been ontop 3 times. Name the list of coaches that have won both NCAA and NBA championships in modern-day basketball. It takes alot of different ways of coaching to win at the 3 levels that Brown has.



[Edited by - nyk4ever on 06-21-2006 4:35 PM]

don't forget his high school championships!
¿ △ ?
crzymdups
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6/21/2006  4:43 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by nyk4ever:

Another season is complete in the NBA books and another year a team other then our beloved New York Knicks wins the championship.

You and your unborn children better get used to it.

At least we agree on one thing!

¿ △ ?
nyk4ever
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6/21/2006  4:45 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by crzymdups:


Brown has one championship. But people fall back on it so much as an excuse to keep him around, I can see why you'd think it was more.

He has 3. ABA, NCAA, NBA. Like it or not, he's been ontop 3 times. Name the list of coaches that have won both NCAA and NBA championships in modern-day basketball. It takes alot of different ways of coaching to win at the 3 levels that Brown has.



[Edited by - nyk4ever on 06-21-2006 4:35 PM]

don't forget his high school championships!

Crzy. I could agree with you but you are blatently blinding yourself from facts to better your point of view. Like it or not, winning a NCAA championship and NBA championship is quite a accomplishment and to do so it takes alot of flexibility coaching-wise.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
crzymdups
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6/21/2006  4:51 PM
actually, the college championship is a good point. traditionally people argue that college coaches don't work in the NBA because they bring their blow-hard, college rah-rah attitude to the NBA and can't work with the personalities on the NBA level. it's a credit to Larry that he's done so well in the NBA, because he IS a great game tactian (when he's actually trying to win), but seriously, the college thing may explain some of the constant run-ins he has with players and the power struggles he gets into with them.
¿ △ ?
islesfan
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6/21/2006  4:54 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by nyk4ever:

Funny, Brown was demanding defense intensity and pride and players like Stephon Marbury Steve Francis and Eddy Curry, who by the way could not be coached by any coaches in their careers so far, didn't listen. The Knicks are cast-offs from other teams becuase of their poor attitude and Larry Brown is trying to weed these types of players out and you want to get on Brown? Please.

there's a key difference you're ignoring here. Brown asks for these things, fine. any good coach asks for these things. it's how he asks and that he decides certain players don't fit his vision and then throws games to get his point across. other coaches will work with what they have and not purposely sabotage players to prove a point. Would Brown have been willing to start Jason Williams and Antoine Walker or do they not play the right way?

What do you mean Brown doesn't do this? You don't win as many games as he has and 3 championships by mistake. The guy had ONE bad year and you want to crucify him? For a team that has put its faith in the wrong people for so long and finally puts it's faith in one who has a track record of success everywhere has been, you are giving Brown way to much of a short leash.

Brown has one championship. But people fall back on it so much as an excuse to keep him around, I can see why you'd think it was more.

It's not just about Championships but putting your team in position to be competing for them which Brown has done at just about every place he's been.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
nyk4ever
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6/21/2006  4:58 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

actually, the college championship is a good point. traditionally people argue that college coaches don't work in the NBA because they bring their blow-hard, college rah-rah attitude to the NBA and can't work with the personalities on the NBA level. it's a credit to Larry that he's done so well in the NBA, because he IS a great game tactian (when he's actually trying to win), but seriously, the college thing may explain some of the constant run-ins he has with players and the power struggles he gets into with them.

Well we can agree on something so thats a plus. lol.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Bonn1997
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6/21/2006  4:59 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by crzymdups:


Brown has one championship. But people fall back on it so much as an excuse to keep him around, I can see why you'd think it was more.

He has 3. ABA, NCAA, NBA. Like it or not, he's been ontop 3 times. Name the list of coaches that have won both NCAA and NBA championships in modern-day basketball. It takes alot of different ways of coaching to win at the 3 levels that Brown has.



[Edited by - nyk4ever on 06-21-2006 4:35 PM]

don't forget his high school championships!
I'll agree with NYK to some extent here. I think Larry accomplished some great things with mostly veteran rosters when he was younger and more sane. My *only* concern regarding Brown though is what the now senile man does with the Knicks. It's all much less important than getting new ownership but that will never happen.

Crzy. I could agree with you but you are blatently blinding yourself from facts to better your point of view. Like it or not, winning a NCAA championship and NBA championship is quite a accomplishment and to do so it takes alot of flexibility coaching-wise.
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